Indian defence & religion

[Joe Shearer]

I was pointing out that every religion had and has some bad things, why do you think Hinduism is so bad?

You are only driven by what you feel, but others feel what they have to.. putting a restriction on things which are harmless is of no consequence. The only point I want to put forward is, no matter what they should believe in their work if apart from that they believe in anything else that is inconsequential.. to anyone.

There are lots of assumptions that are wrong.

First, I am against superstition. This lemon/Rahu Kaalam crap is superstition, not religion.

Second, obtrusive, public religion is a source of disharmony. Nobody objects to a believer praying quietly; if it gets into someone's way, it is offensive.

Third, people do not speak up against these practices; banning has to be institutionalised.

 

[SamantK]

The concepts which we are speaking here are universal, it happens everywhere and should be treated as such, reactions are not necessary when they are harmless physically or emotionally..

 

[Tamizhan]

Only an idiot who drinks to get drunk would drink on the job.

I was not the one who said a drink would be just fine for keeping up the spirits.

Say no, firmly.

It works.

The foreigners have no problem with it and take part in it, the Indian higher management wants it, the employees want it. So who will say no ?

Whether Mr.Joe Shearer likes it or not, most believe in it and such rituals will continue. For instance just day before yesterday the Bhumi Puja for the four laning of the NH-69 segment from Mettupalayam to CBE was done and work was started.

For more details, commissioning of a new Air India flight ;

 

[SamantK]

There are lots of assumptions that are wrong.

First, I am against superstition. This lemon/Rahu Kaalam crap is superstition, not religion.

Second, obtrusive, public religion is a source of disharmony. Nobody objects to a believer praying quietly; if it gets into someone's way, it is offensive.

Third, people do not speak up against these practices; banning has to be institutionalised.

1st. Agreed.
2nd. Agreed, but in this case how do you think that a model of the rockets comes in your or anyones way? Care to explain how it gets into your way in your experiences?
3rd, How can you ban something which is offensive to only a minority of people and others do not thing its so offensive?

 

[Tamizhan]

First, I am against superstition. This lemon/Rahu Kaalam crap is superstition, not religion.

You call it superstition, others call it tradition. Perceptions vary and and the perception carried by the majority wins.

Second, obtrusive, public religion is a source of disharmony. Nobody objects to a believer praying quietly; if it gets into someone's way, it is offensive.

Source of disharmony, for whom ?

Only for those who see it as a source of disharmony. Not for others, to whom it is just a simple ritual practised since ages.

Third, people do not speak up against these practices; banning has to be institutionalised.

Why it has to be institutionalized ? It harms exactly how ?

Why every vestige of Indic culture needs to be erased because a insignificant minority feels insecure ?

 

[Joe Shearer]

I was pointing out that every religion had and has some bad things, why do you think Hinduism is so bad?

You are only driven by what you feel, but others feel what they have to.. putting a restriction on things which are harmless is of no consequence. The only point I want to put forward is, no matter what they should believe in their work if apart from that they believe in anything else that is inconsequential.. to anyone.

Let me re-word my question for better understanding.

I am against all religions. Why do you think this is so?

 

[Fazlu]

The foreigners have no problem with it and take part in it, the Indian higher management wants it, the employees want it. So who will say no ?

Whether Mr.Joe Shearer likes it or not, most believe in it and such rituals will continue. For instance just day before yesterday the Bhumi Puja for the four laning of the NH-69 segment from Mettupalayam to CBE was done and work was started.

Trust me. This will change....as it must.

 

[SamantK]

Let me re-word my question for better understanding.

I am against all religions. Why do you think this is so?

I was actually asking you to point out what particular things you do not like.

I have actually never been so much into religion myself, if you dont like it you dont like it! But just because you dont like it does not mean majority dont like it too, it should be what the majority think. I would also like to tell you that it does not mean it becomes obsessive but these trivial things should not bother even a hardcore atheist. Minding own business actually bodes well

 

[Fazlu]

Why every vestige of Indic culture needs to be erased because a insignificant minority feels insecure ?

The minorities of India are not as insignificant you claim nor do they feel "insecure" . Insecurity is the trait of individuals who do not trust themselves or their faith.

 

[Tamizhan]

Trust me. This will change....as it must.

It will not and need not.

No one has answered how these small rituals harm anyone. If it does not harm anyone why care about it ? Because that practise is not rooted from that person's religion ?

I'll be brutally honest - why many people (mostly Abrahamaic minorities) oppose these practices is because they it feeds their insecurity by seeing Indic rituals being done and reminds them that Indic religions still play a huge role in the activities of day to day life of Indians. A totally unwarranted insecurity which no one can help. All the excuses about superstitions, tribal practises are nothing but a polished way of saying that.

 

[SamantK]

The minorities of India are not as insignificant you claim nor do they feel "insecure" . Insecurity is the trait of individuals who do not trust themselves or their faith.

Fazlu, were you there when the pooja was being done, if you were a part of that project, I will assure you that even the majority will not ban you, if you want to offer prayers there.... people who have faith would like prayers being offered no matter of which belief...

 

[Tamizhan]

The minorities of India are not as insignificant you claim nor do they feel "insecure" . Insecurity is the trait of individuals who do not trust themselves or their faith.

well you did not understand my post dear fazlu.

I did not call the minorities as insignificant. Because then you not have an Hamid Ansari lighting a deepa at the beginning of the function as he did some days back.

I used the word "minorities" in a different context there.Insignificant are those who see ulterior motives in these small quirky rituals that are a part of our culture and feel insecure/embarrassed at the sight of that.

These rituals have been a part and parcel of our culture for ages, they cause no harm- mental, physical- to anyone and as such there is no need for anybody to obsess over it.

 

[Joe Shearer]

1st. Agreed.
2nd. Agreed, but in this case how do you think that a model of the rockets comes in your or anyones way? Care to explain how it gets into your way in your experiences?
3rd, How can you ban something which is offensive to only a minority of people and others do not thing its so offensive?

You call it superstition, others call it tradition. Perceptions vary and and the perception carried by the majority wins.

It is precisely the tyranny of the majority that one is seeking to avert.

Source of disharmony, for whom ?

Only for those who see it as a source of disharmony. Not for others, to whom it is just a simple ritual practised since ages.

Even if one person is uncomfortable with what is going on, it must stop.

Why it has to be institutionalized ? It harms exactly how ?

Why every vestige of Indic culture needs to be erased because a insignificant minority feels insecure ?[

Why is Indic culture dependent on making minorities insecure to continue in existence?

 

[Angad_NSA]

I think you are just gibbering now, having given up any pretense of being scientific. It comes back, inevitably, to values, and to he'll with science. Since the scientific salience of our collective superstitions cannot be proved, let us move on. Let us now focus on 'implicit goodness', 'jealousy' and 'cultural superiority'.
And since aping the west is ruled out, let us ape the Chinese.
This man is the stupidest I have come across in a long, long time.

After failing to admit your folly on Yoga, now trying to hide your hate towards Indian heritage and traditions by passing personal remarks and pulling in China out of context? you are not smart, are u?

 

[Joe Shearer]

I was actually asking you to point out what particular things you do not like.

I have actually never been so much into religion myself, if you dont like it you dont like it! But just because you dont like it does not mean majority dont like it too, it should be what the majority think. I would also like to tell you that it does not mean it becomes obsessive but these trivial things should not bother even a hardcore atheist. Minding own business actually bodes well

It should precisely NOT be what the majority wills, in defiance of the minority. Otherwise you are eliminating the minority in steps.