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Indian companies have often been slapped with large fines for violations of US law.

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How India will protect nuclear liabilities of US firms
The flip side is that Indian companies have often been slapped with large fines for violations of US law.
Amit Bhandari, IndiaSpend.com · Today · 09:30 pm
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A $48 billion (Rs 3.26 lakh crore) penaltyclaimedby the US government from Volkswagen for cheating on diesel car emissions is about 200 times as large as the $225 million (Rs 1,500 crore)insurance poolset up by Indian insurance companies to compensate US nuclear companies for mishaps in India.

If a US nuclear company were to build a reactor in India that suffered a catastrophe, and people were to die in India, the US government’s position seems to be that American suppliers shouldn’t face civil or criminal liability. The US believes the Indian civil nuclear liability law, which calls for both penalties, is unduly harsh. Rather than say so directly, USofficialskeeprepeatingthat the “Indian law is inconsistent with the international liability regime.”

The Indian civil nuclearliability lawholds the equipment supplier responsible for any incident caused by the supplier or its employees. The Indian liability law differs from those of other countries because it was drafted keeping in mind the 1984 Bhopal tragedy – where despite 5,000 deaths and effects across generations, no one was held criminally liable.

The penalty demanded in the Volkswagen case is about 100 times the compensation of $470 million ($907 million in 2014 dollars) paid by US firm Union Carbide after theBhopal Gas tragedy, which also left 70,000 people maimed or injured. Volkswagen’s cover-up caused no injuries or deaths.

Although the Indian government wants to protect US nuclear companies against the Indian liability law, criticsarguedthat these companies are using India’s eagerness to avoid any liability, if something goes wrong.

India wants tobuildmore nuclear power plants in an attempt to reduce the share of coal in electricity generation. Increasing the use of nuclear power is also a part of the country’sstrategyto tackle climate change.

Indiacurrentlyhas 5,780 mega watts of nuclear power in operation and plans to add another 17,400 MW of capacity, making it possibly the largest market for nuclear power after China, and a financially lucrative prospect for Western firms faced with limited domestic sales.

However, the 2011Fukushimanuclear disaster, caused by an earthquake, followed by a tsunami, has heightened concerns of nuclear safety and accident costs. The fallout of that disaster will also make it hard to change India’s liability laws.

Beyond borders

Large settlements paid out in the US are a regular feature. In October 2015, the US Justice Department arrived at asettlementwith oil major BP, which will pay a penalty of $20.8 billion to cover the economic and environmental damage arising from a 2010 oil spill in the Gulf of Mexico.

Volkswagen – the company allegedly installed devices that sidestep emission norms in 600,000 cars – could, in theory, face fines of as much as $37,500 per vehicle for each of two violations of the law; up to $3,750 per “defeat device”; and another $37,500 for each day of violation, aReutersreportsaid.

In April 2010, a deepwater oil-drilling rig operated by BP, the Deepwater Horizon, suffered an explosion which killed 11 men, and the well it was drilling leaked over five million barrels of oil in the Gulf of Mexico.

This was the largest-ever settlement in the history of the Department; the Volkswagen penalty could be larger.

A number of companies have paid tens of billions of dollars in fines over the past decade for breaking US law.

Top US banks, such as Bank of America, JP Morgan, Citigroup and Morgan Stanley, have paid multi-billion dollar fines for their roles in the 2008 global financial crisis, caused by reckless business practices of large Western banks.

The remit of the US Justice Department extends beyond its borders and to foreign firms as well. In May 2015, five global banks – Citicorp, JP Morgan, Barclays, UBS and the Royal Bank of Scotland –agreedto pay fines adding up to $2.5 billion for manipulating a widely-used financial benchmark set in London. This brings the total penalty paid by these banks for their role in this manipulation to $9 billion.

UK-headquartered HSBC wasfinedfor “illegally conducting transactions on behalf of customers in Cuba, Iran, Libya, Sudan and Burma” – countries under US economic sanctions.

During the financial year 2015, the US justice departmentcollected$23 billion in penalties in various civil and criminal cases, slightly lower than the collection for 2013, when it had a record haul.

India in the mix

While the US nuclear industry wants to avoid any liability in India for acts of omission or commission, Indian companies have often been slapped with large fines for violations of US law.

Drug manufacturer Ranbaxy paid penalties of $500 million (Rs 3,400 crore) in 2013 forfalsifyingdata about its drugs and for not following proper manufacturing practices – more than twice the value of the nuclear liability insurance pool to be created in India.

In 2013, tech firm Infosys paid a $35 million penalty in acivil settlementon allegations of visa misuse; the firm maintained that the “claims are untrue and remain unproven”.

India, too, has started levying big fines. For instance, in 2013, a group of Indian cement companies wasfinedRs 6,698 crore by the Competition Commission of India for working as a cartel and over-charging consumers. This amount, levied for unfair business practices rather than causing deaths and injuries, is 4.4 times the proposed liability cap for nuclear incidents.

Similarly, Delhi-based real estate firm DLF has been recently ordered to pay apenaltyof Rs 630 crore for unfair business practices.

This article was first published onIndiaSpend.
 
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And here people want India to buy F16s and 18s and manufacture them in India..
This is one of the many true faces of real USA India strategic relationship..

Countless more faces come out when we talk about NGO funding for working against government projects..

@Levina @Abingdonboy @anant_s

Seems a very good read..
 
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And here people want India to buy F16s and 18s and manufacture them in India..
This is one of the many true faces of real USA India strategic relationship..

Countless more faces come out when we talk about NGO funding for working against government projects..

@Levina @Abingdonboy @anant_s

Seems a very good read..
They are so quick to want to sign strategic deals (which this fighter deal will be) with a nation who plays these games:

Secretary Clinton's 'Get Modi' Policy holds disastrous to US under Modi regime | Asian Tribune
Obama quietly reverses Hillary’s ‘get Modi’ policy

Remember, Modi is PM now and Clinton could be the next POTUS- would that be good for such defence deals that Modi has crafted personally?


I've made many points against the US fighters over the past week but the US lobby continues to tell half truths.

So
1) No ToT (assured) (no source codes either and no ability to modify the products)
2) No industrial beneftis for India
3) No sovereign control on strategic Indian military assets0 digitally sealed sections of the aircrft, only LM/Boeing staff allowed to inspect them (and if you want to put your tinfoil hat on consider "killswitches")
4) India would be FORCED to sign agreements it has resisted for years like LSA, BECA and CISMOA
5) Very restrictive end user agremeents (US has to be notified if you want to take your aircraft abroad)
6) At the whim of internal US poltics that are very fragile and inconsistent (especially towards India). Every single component, weapons, trianing and maintainence package would have to be cleared by the USG and Congress- ummm no thanks.

+ 7) If it is going to be the single engined F-16 then kiss the LCA project goodbye- it's dead.

Personally, I think the all hopes for US fighters falls short when you make one simple point; the IAF intends to use their MMRCA as a nuclear deliverery platform- is the US going to allow their fighters to be used in this role? We all know the answer to this is HELL NO.


So, I ask again, what are the merits of this deal? If India is going to sell its long standing autonomy for some military gear then it should be getting FAR better stuff than this ie THAAD, Supercarriers, UCAVs, Stealth Bombers etc not 50/40 year old fighter jets that the IAF doesn't even want.


@anant_s @Levina @Taygibay @Vauban @Ind4Ever @Parul @Star Wars @ranjeet @MilSpec @randomradio @Picdelamirand-oil @nair @SpArK @Skull and Bones
 
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So
1) No ToT (assured) (no source codes either and no ability to modify the products)
2) No industrial beneftis for India
3) No sovereign control on strategic Indian military assets0 digitally sealed sections of the aircrft, only LM/Boeing staff allowed to inspect them (and if you want to put your tinfoil hat on consider "killswitches")
4) India would be FORCED to sign agreements it has resisted for years like LSA, BECA and CISMOA
5) Very restrictive end user agremeents (US has to be notified if you want to take your aircraft abroad)
6) At the whim of internal US poltics that are very fragile and inconsistent (especially towards India). Every single component, weapons, trianing and maintainence package would have to be cleared by the USG and Congress- ummm no thanks.

You forgot another important point. We can't export the SH and F-16 in the future. The markets will belong to better aircraft.

+ 7) If it is going to be the single engined F-16 then kiss the LCA project goodbye- it's dead.

I've heard that the second MMRCA line will be purchased only if the LCA Mk2 is delayed beyond reason. So the decision to go for the second line is only based on the failure of Mk2.

Anyway, I don't think LSA, BECA and CISMOA are as bad as the media is trying to portray. None of them really impinge on our sovereignty or give away secrets. The agreements are to protect US technology. Meaning, no Indian tech will be compromised.

LSA gives the US military access to our bases in India. But it applies vice versa. I don't mind IN getting access to US bases in Japan and the South China Sea. It's just a logistics agreement, so our ships can resupply essentials at the bases.

BECA gives us access to their electronic intelligence like satellite and recce aircraft images.

CISMOA gives us access to their communication systems and their friend or foe tech.

While LSA is mutual, BECA and CISMOA are in our favour. The BECA and CISMOA agreements are meant to control how we use their knowledge and tech. It doesn't compromise what we have.
 
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CISMOA gives us access to their communication systems and their friend or foe tech.

Anyway, I don't think LSA, BECA and CISMOA are as bad as the media is trying to portray.

The BECA and CISMOA agreements are meant to control how we use their knowledge and tech. It doesn't compromise what we have.
Perhaps but it shouldn't be the US that gets to strong arm India into making the decsion to sign them on condtion of buying these fighters. If India wants to sign them of its own accord after having weighed the pros and cons and taken an objective merit based decsion for the good of India then that's fine, but it shouldn't be because the US have used nefarious means to get India to capitulate.

You forgot another important point. We can't export the SH and F-16 in the future. The markets will belong to better aircraft.
Very good point that I had not considered much. This is a revenue stream that could be worth billions to india with the Rafale line in India in the long term.

CISMOA gives us access to their communication systems and their friend or foe tech.
Irrelevent really- India fits all its aircraft with its own IFFs and comm equipment.

BECA gives us access to their electronic intelligence like satellite and recce aircraft images.
It works both ways- this is some of the most sensitive material a nation can have and should India allow a foreign nation to have accsess to theirs? Let's not forget, the US continues to remain very close with Pakistan and there are elements in the US establishment who continue to favour Pakistan over India- is it the best idea to give this "partner" your most sensitive material to do god knows what with?

LSA gives the US military access to our bases in India. But it applies vice versa. I don't mind IN getting access to US bases in Japan and the South China Sea. It's just a logistics agreement, so our ships can resupply essentials at the bases.

If India wants to be a global power it will have to develop such infrastructure and capabilities on its own, piggy backing on other powers will only get you so far but in the long term it will stunt your organic efforts to project your power.

India IS going to be a great power, the US is in a very unique position as the sole superpower in existence but all of its relationships/agreements are founded on this reality and are premised with the foreign power being weaker and the US promoting its interests above all else. They are not agreements of equals.

Whilst there maye be some benefits to India signing BECA, LSA and CISMOA the bigger winner will always be the US- this is only logical, they are their agreements. In the long term, India is better off keeping its relationship transactiional with the US and forging its own path- have no doubt about it, the US will try and keep India down beyona a certain point and every economic projection has India overtaking the US in our lifetimes, why sell out? Right now India might be the junior partner but in the not too distant future it will be an equal- signing these deals (and others) will assure that doesn't happen.
 
.
They are so quick to want to sign strategic deals (which this fighter deal will be) with a nation who plays these games:

Secretary Clinton's 'Get Modi' Policy holds disastrous to US under Modi regime | Asian Tribune
Obama quietly reverses Hillary’s ‘get Modi’ policy

Remember, Modi is PM now and Clinton could be the next POTUS- would that be good for such defence deals that Modi has crafted personally?


I've made many points against the US fighters over the past week but the US lobby continues to tell half truths.

So
1) No ToT (assured) (no source codes either and no ability to modify the products)
2) No industrial beneftis for India
3) No sovereign control on strategic Indian military assets0 digitally sealed sections of the aircrft, only LM/Boeing staff allowed to inspect them (and if you want to put your tinfoil hat on consider "killswitches")
4) India would be FORCED to sign agreements it has resisted for years like LSA, BECA and CISMOA
5) Very restrictive end user agremeents (US has to be notified if you want to take your aircraft abroad)
6) At the whim of internal US poltics that are very fragile and inconsistent (especially towards India). Every single component, weapons, trianing and maintainence package would have to be cleared by the USG and Congress- ummm no thanks.

+ 7) If it is going to be the single engined F-16 then kiss the LCA project goodbye- it's dead.

Personally, I think the all hopes for US fighters falls short when you make one simple point; the IAF intends to use their MMRCA as a nuclear deliverery platform- is the US going to allow their fighters to be used in this role? We all know the answer to this is HELL NO.


So, I ask again, what are the merits of this deal? If India is going to sell its long standing autonomy for some military gear then it should be getting FAR better stuff than this ie THAAD, Supercarriers, UCAVs, Stealth Bombers etc not 50/40 year old fighter jets that the IAF doesn't even want.


@anant_s @Levina @Taygibay @Vauban @Ind4Ever @Parul @Star Wars @ranjeet @MilSpec @randomradio @Picdelamirand-oil @nair @SpArK @Skull and Bones
You are absolutely right, there is nothing much tangible for india either in defence or economic sector. We Indians like jackasses are taken in by glib talk.

US has not signed trivial social security agreement with India inspite of years of negotiations, does not give any exclusive market access, continues to victimize india's pharmaceutical industry, imposes arbitrary anti-dumping duty on indian goods, calls for removing subsidy given agricultural sector...etc

US companies will invest if they see good returns and they in turn want to subvert all the local laws. The fact is once interest rates rises in US most of the funds will be pulled out.
 
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I've heard that the second MMRCA line will be purchased only if the LCA Mk2 is delayed beyond reason. So the decision to go for the second line is only based on the failure of Mk2.

Anyway, I don't think LSA, BECA and CISMOA are as bad as the media is trying to portray. None of them really impinge on our sovereignty or give away secrets. The agreements are to protect US technology. Meaning, no Indian tech will be compromised.

LSA gives the US military access to our bases in India. But it applies vice versa. I don't mind IN getting access to US bases in Japan and the South China Sea. It's just a logistics agreement, so our ships can resupply essentials at the bases.

So why is it that its the US which is pressurising India to sign it and not India which is asking US ?

If the CIA lands in Indian Military bases and the RAW lands in US Military bases, who do you think will be able to penetrate faster ? better ? deeper ? Who can do more damage ? who has more money, power, intelligence ?

Do you know who Rabinder singh is ?

BECA gives us access to their electronic intelligence like satellite and recce aircraft images.



CISMOA gives us access to their communication systems and their friend or foe tech.

It also provides them with a door into our Military communication network and systems. Who has the capacity to turn it around and install virus/trojans etc ? India or US ? Who has better skills, manpower, money, organization, experience and determination ? India or US ?

Why do you think US has "US commission for religious freedom" and why do they collect atrocity literature against us ?

While LSA is mutual, BECA and CISMOA are in our favour. The BECA and CISMOA agreements are meant to control how we use their knowledge and tech. It doesn't compromise what we have.

If that is what you believe, then you are a naive fool. And THAT ALONE demonstrates why we should not sign these agreements. We just do not have the IQ and capacity to deal with its after effects.

Such Agreements should be between EQUALS. So If you are so keen for India to sign those agreements, then let us fist become their equal and THEN ASK YOURSELF, will the US still want to sign those agreements with you ???
 
. .
Perhaps but it shouldn't be the US that gets to strong arm India into making the decsion to sign them on condtion of buying these fighters. If India wants to sign them of its own accord after having weighed the pros and cons and taken an objective merit based decsion for the good of India then that's fine, but it shouldn't be because the US have used nefarious means to get India to capitulate.


Very good point that I had not considered much. This is a revenue stream that could be worth billions to india with the Rafale line in India in the long term.


Irrelevent really- India fits all its aircraft with its own IFFs and comm equipment.


It works both ways- this is some of the most sensitive material a nation can have and should India allow a foreign nation to have accsess to theirs? Let's not forget, the US continues to remain very close with Pakistan and there are elements in the US establishment who continue to favour Pakistan over India- is it the best idea to give this "partner" your most sensitive material to do god knows what with?



If India wants to be a global power it will have to develop such infrastructure and capabilities on its own, piggy backing on other powers will only get you so far but in the long term it will stunt your organic efforts to project your power.

India IS going to be a great power, the US is in a very unique position as the sole superpower in existence but all of its relationships/agreements are founded on this reality and are premised with the foreign power being weaker and the US promoting its interests above all else. They are not agreements of equals.

Whilst there maye be some benefits to India signing BECA, LSA and CISMOA the bigger winner will always be the US- this is only logical, they are their agreements. In the long term, India is better off keeping its relationship transactiional with the US and forging its own path- have no doubt about it, the US will try and keep India down beyona a certain point and every economic projection has India overtaking the US in our lifetimes, why sell out? Right now India might be the junior partner but in the not too distant future it will be an equal- signing these deals (and others) will assure that doesn't happen.

Tech relations with the US will be extremely limited without signing the agreements. But BECA and LSA are of huge benefit to us.

So why is it that its the US which is pressurising India to sign it and not India which is asking US ?

People are stupid. So the govt can't rush into signing agreements. The US wants the agreements signed only in order to become more competitive in the Indian market.

If the CIA lands in Indian Military bases and the RAW lands in US Military bases, who do you think will be able to penetrate faster ? better ? deeper ? Who can do more damage ? who has more money, power, intelligence ?

They already do that. There have been dozens of times where the US has entered Indian bases for logistics. Even port visits are extremely common.

You don't know anything about LSA do you? Google LSA between US and Philippines. That should give you more clues.

It also provides them with a door into our Military communication network and systems. Who has the capacity to turn it around and install virus/trojans etc ? India or US ? Who has better skills, manpower, money, organization, experience and determination ? India or US ?

They won't have access to our comm systems. We get access to whatever they sell to us.

If that is what you believe, then you are a naive fool. And THAT ALONE demonstrates why we should not sign these agreements. We just do not have the IQ and capacity to deal with its after effects.

Such Agreements should be between EQUALS. So If you are so keen for India to sign those agreements, then let us fist become their equal and THEN ASK YOURSELF, will the US still want to sign those agreements with you ???

Yeah, they need even equals to sign those agreements. It's just part of their MIC business.

The agreements are to safeguard their tech. Not to infiltrate ours.

Lovely conspiracy theories.
 
. . .
People are stupid. So the govt can't rush into signing agreements. The US wants the agreements signed only in order to become more competitive in the Indian market.

LOL... that is a Logical Fallacy.

If the US wanted to become more competitive in the Indian market all they have to do is remove the Law that insists on these agreements :lol: .......... or they can provide legal exceptions by passing a new law.

To foolishly imagine that the onus is on India to help US companies become more competitive in the Indian market is an Epic Fail.

They already do that. There have been dozens of times where the US has entered Indian bases for logistics. Even port visits are extremely common.

You don't know anything about LSA do you? Google LSA between US and Philippines. That should give you more clues.

They do that, but in limited numbers and under specific conditions. This ensures WE can be in control of the engagement. It ensure every time US needs our support they have to give us something in return. If we sign an agreement, such support becomes their right.

Who stands to gain from such a step ? I am pretty sure I know a lot more about LSA than you.

They won't have access to our comm systems. We get access to whatever they sell to us.

Nope, THEY get access to whatever they sell us and more. You don't seem to understand this simple fact.

Yeah, they need even equals to sign those agreements. It's just part of their MIC business.
The agreements are to safeguard their tech. Not to infiltrate ours.
Lovely conspiracy theories.

There can be separate agreements to safeguard their tech if that is really their concern :lol:

It might be a bit more cumbersome but if they want to make it easy for themselves, let them first EARN our trust. The are a LONG way away from that.

But I do love your Naive view of things. Makes me believe you live and work in an defence establishment. Only someone living in such a cocoon will talk the way you do.

Let me tell you two stories to make things simple,

A Man and a Cow decided to come to an agreement. The cow will provide all the left over milk to the man and the man will protect the cow.

The cow thought it was a great deal since it will not have to worry about itself and its calf. Soon the arrangement took off and the calf drank the milk and what was left was given to the man. Soon the man realized that he would be better off if the calf din't drink the milk, it would mean more for him. So he ate the calf.

The man now demanded all the milk since there was no calf to drink it. The cow had to give away all its milk but it was sad and depressed and soon it started giving less and less milk. Soon enough the Man realized that the cow has now become useless and killed and ate the cow.

End of story.

Moral of the story ? Deals should be between equals.


Second story ? It is that of the East India Company and the deals they made with the Indian kings and rulers.


I hope there is no Third Story. Those who do not learn from History are doomed to repeat it.
 
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LOL... that is a Logical Fallacy.

If the US wanted to become more competitive in the Indian market all they have to do is remove the Law that insists on these agreements :lol: .......... or they can provide legal exceptions by passing a new law.

To foolishly imagine that the onus is on India to help US companies become more competitive in the Indian market is an Epic Fail.

Why will they change laws for that effect? Your lack of information on the agreements is what's making you have this view.

I am pretty sure I know a lot more about LSA than you.

No, you don't. And I am sure you didn't even bother checking up the easily available open source agreement that they have with the Philippines.

Nope, THEY get access to whatever they sell us and more. You don't seem to understand this simple fact.

Lol. They already have access to whatever they sell us. That's why they are selling it to us, because they control the tech. The Russians and French have access to whatever they sell to us also.

And we have already signed EUM with the Americans. That's more intrusive than all the other agreements.

Moral of the story ? Deals should be between equals.

Lol.
 
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