Indian Army warns Rs 40,000 crore Arunachal border road could be a liability if tensions break out

[Chinese-Dragon]

Similarly it is not required for India to sign the NPT, it just needs to voluntary "implement" the NPT provisions. Also can you provide a suitable portion of UNLOS charter where it says territorial disputes are not in purview of UNCLOS? I failed to find it

India can't sign or even "implement" the NPT, since the NPT says that there are only 5 legitimate nuclear powers on Earth, who are the UNSC P5.

 

[Spectre]

India can't sign or even "implement" the NPT, since the NPT says that there are only 5 legitimate nuclear powers on Earth, who are the UNSC P5.

I like your trolling often but give it a break dude. NPT provisions have nothing to do with NWS which is a premise and not an actionable covenant of NPT, If India signs NPT obviously that definition would be altered as India is a country which possess nuclear weapons . Non proliferation provisions are technicalities which provide a clear boundary b/w civilian and military research reactors, accounts for enriched fuel from origin to disposal so that they are not mis-used, places a ban on further testing, commitment not to transfer nuclear tech to non npt countries, commitment not to stockpile on fissile material outside of IAEA safeguards and so on.

India will not sign NPT because - it bans further testing, India will give a voluntary declaration but not signed commitment as things might change if Pakistan or China test. Breaking a treaty will have consequences. Similarly a NPT signatory cannot make more bombs, India will not commit that because if Pakistan or China increase their arsenal then India also reserves the right.

It is a known fact that signing NPT will give India a NWS but India cannot do so as it's capablities are still not mature enough on the lines of other NWS countries so if things go sideways it may need to increase it's arsenal or do further testing. Officially all NWS countries are in a state of freeze when it comes to increasing their arsenal or further testing. So they instead do simulations and instead of increasing the no of warheads try to modernize them. China ofcourse does not bother

You tried confusing matters by bringing in NWS status in NPT provisions but next time try it on the unsuspecting

 

[Chinese-Dragon]

I like your trolling often but give it a break dude. NPT provisions have nothing to do with NWS which is a premise and not an actionable covenant of NPT, If India signs NPT obviously that definition would be altered as India is a country which possess nuclear weapons . Non proliferation provisions are technicalities which provide a clear boundary b/w civilian and military research reactors, accounts for enriched fuel from origin to disposal so that they are not mis-used, places a ban on further testing, commitment not to transfer nuclear tech to non npt countries, commitment not to stockpile on fissile material outside of IAEA safeguards and so on.

India will not sign NPT because - it bans further testing, India will give a voluntary declaration but not signed commitment as things might change if Pakistan or China test. Breaking a treaty will have consequences. Similarly a NPT signatory cannot make more bombs, India will not commit that because if Pakistan or China increase their arsenal then India also reserves the right.

You tried confusing matters but bringing in NWS in NPT provisions but next time try it on the unsuspecting

You say it is a premise of the NPT, so how can India "implement" the NPT without it?

Or are you saying India will get to pick and choose which parts of the NPT to follow?

 

[Anazvara]

Dear friends, Don't we think that due to this hypocritic behaviour of Army has left millions in the mountain still wishing for development better jobs. Politician think about themselves refer to latest "Siachen Issue" hyped in news and in turn Army has it's on mentality to pass the buck in being inefficient of securing our border. Chinese too have developed their border neighbouring areas, aren't they afraid of Indian invasion or are they just self confident about themselves and relying on locals to pass information in such cases. Due to underdevelopment these people turns towards plains and face racism and are considered outcast..

P S : What is our Army afraid of???

Our Army is afraid of its inability to defend the declared borders and this is pretty much an admission of cowardice disguised as "reality".

The army would much rather focus on a much weaker pakistan and thump chest than take on the Chinese with whom they have a far poor history or confidence in facing them.

This way IF the chinese attack, the army can now say "I told you so" and pass the buck to the politician again. Something similar to what pakistan army does.

That said its not the army's job to "develop the economy in the mountains". Their job is to defend ALL land that belongs to India under ALL circumstances, good or bad, favourable or unfavourable.

You are spot on about the chinese mentality.

 

[Spectre]

You say it is a premise of the NPT, so how can India "implement" the NPT without it?

Or are you saying India will get to pick and choose which parts of the NPT to follow?

You follow rules not facts, If India signs NPT India will become a NWS as it has NW that is a fact. That simple enough? India does not sign because it cannot follow the rules which disallows further testing and increase in arsenal size.

 

[Joe Shearer]

Our Army is afraid of its inability to defend the declared borders and this is pretty much an admission of cowardice disguised as "reality".

The army would much rather focus on a much weaker pakistan and thump chest than take on the Chinese with whom they have a far poor history or confidence in facing them.

This way IF the chinese attack, the army can now say "I told you so" and pass the buck to the politician again. Something similar to what pakistan army does.

That said its not the army's job to "develop the economy in the mountains". Their job is to defend ALL land that belongs to India under ALL circumstances, good or bad, favourable or unfavourable.

You are spot on about the chinese mentality.

I have already explained in considerable detail why the Army is saying what it does. Do take the time and trouble to take a look at that post, and try to digest the strategic implications, before making caustic remarks about the IA.

 

[Chinese-Dragon]

You follow rules not facts, If India signs NPT India will become a NWS as it has NW that is a fact. That simple enough? India does not sign because it cannot follow the rules which disallows further testing and increase in arsenal size.

I think you are confused here sir.

The NPT specifies 5 legitimate nuclear powers, if India joins it will have to disarm, which it will never do.

What you're talking about is changing the NPT before India joins, to change the premise above, which cannot happen without China's consent.

You'll be stuck in the same position as you were in the NSG and the UNSC whereby China has veto power over India's aspirations.

 

[Anazvara]

I think you are confused here sir.

The NPT specifies 5 legitimate nuclear powers, if India joins it will have to disarm, which it will never do.

What you're talking about is changing the NPT before India joins, to change the premise above, which cannot happen without China's consent.

You'll be stuck in the same position as you were in the NSG and the UNSC whereby China has veto power over India's aspirations.

True, India needs to provide china with options or hard choices. I am going to guess that India is going to turn up the heat and offer hard choices to china.

Everything in the world follow the path of least resistance. India and our 'allies' in this particular battle has to make all other path for china much harder and tougher so that the NPT path looks the easiest for china.

You disagree ?

 

[Spectre]

I think you are confused here sir.

The NPT specifies 5 legitimate nuclear powers, if India joins it will have to disarm, which it will never do.

What you're talking about is changing the NPT before India joins, to change the premise above, which cannot happen without China's consent.

Not at all. All countries are ready to offer NPT on a platter to India including China without the disarmament provisions which was applied to Ukraine, SA and others. Same is the case with Pakistan. But both India and Pakistan out of mutual distrust will not accept this. Israel does not count because it does not admit to having nuclear weapons. North Korea is a complicated case as they do not even have credible fission weapons.

The crux of the matter is deterrence, NWS countries are secure in their deterrence so they capped their nuclear weapons program (officially) India is not and hence it reserves the right to further develop.

You are correct in your assertion that China has to consent (UNSC) to altering the premise and including India as NWS country but that is not a problem. China is more than happy to as currently Indian stockpile is not a true deterrence against China but just Pakistan. By making India sign the NPT China will ensure this does not change. India while having the capablity to change the deterrence equilibrium cannot do so as it will violate NPT provisions. .

Just do not confuse NPT provisions with NWS premise. Disarmament is not rule which needs to be followed, it is a premise. If China wants India to join NPT it will alter the premise which is no big deal as China has been so insistent on India joining NPT. Disarmament on the other hand is all new ball game and if China has never ever called for disarmament of Indian nuclear weapons knowing it will be laughed out of the room. What will India gain out of disarmament? You are a pragamatic person - Answer that? NSG, UNSC etc have no meaning for India without nuclear weapons as then India is just another country

I think you are confused here sir.

The NPT specifies 5 legitimate nuclear powers, if India joins it will have to disarm, which it will never do.

What you're talking about is changing the NPT before India joins, to change the premise above, which cannot happen without China's consent.

You'll be stuck in the same position as you were in the NSG and the UNSC whereby China has veto power over India's aspirations.

I was looking for the exact term but it kept slipping my mind - Horizontal Proliferation is prohibited not the vertical proliferation for NPT in case of p-5 but in case of India if it joins both will be prohibited.

According to NPT , only the Horizontal Proliferation is prohibited and not the vertical proliferation i.e. no new country except the p-5 (US, UK, Russia, China and France) can proliferate the nuclear weapons. And the most tricky part is that there is no limitation or clause to limit further proliferation by the p-5 nations. This means that p-5 can acquire as many weapons as they can but other nations shouldn't dare to procure any . This means India if it joins cannot increase the number no of weapons but p-5 can do so.

This is the primary official objection stated by India

 

[Kao Boy]

Our Army is afraid of its inability to defend the declared borders and this is pretty much an admission of cowardice disguised as "reality".

The army would much rather focus on a much weaker pakistan and thump chest than take on the Chinese with whom they have a far poor history or confidence in facing them.

This way IF the chinese attack, the army can now say "I told you so" and pass the buck to the politician again. Something similar to what pakistan army does.

That said its not the army's job to "develop the economy in the mountains". Their job is to defend ALL land that belongs to India under ALL circumstances, good or bad, favourable or unfavourable.

You are spot on about the chinese mentality.

What does that even mean?

 

[Anazvara]

What does that even mean?

It means the army has no business telling people not to build roads just because they cannot defend it.

Its not their choice to make or even their comment to make.

 

[Joe Shearer]

Army excuses is irrelevant to the issue. Theirs is not to question why, there is but to do and die.

However since I hold you in utter contempt it is better you spend your time talking to the chinese and pakistanis who you hold in such high esteem.

I notice that you hold yourself a considerable distance away from the Army, and such mundane things as to do and die. Another chairborne warrior, another cock on a dungheap impressed by his own bravado.

What does that even mean?

It means that he is what the Chinese statesman had described as a paper tiger. He talks loud and bombastically about hard decisions, without even the slightest idea of what is involved.

Army excuses is irrelevant to the issue. Theirs is not to question why, there is but to do and die.

However since I hold you in utter contempt it is better you spend your time talking to the chinese and pakistanis who you hold in such high esteem.

How do you hold me in such utter contempt when you are a member of hardly two months' standing? and 77 messages? What do you know, either about me or about the topic, and what claims do you have to be heard by anyone at all?

 

[Kao Boy]

It means the army has no business telling people not to build roads just because they cannot defend it.

Its not their choice to make or even their comment to make.

Look, you can be better when simple... Keep trying someday you will get it right for ever..

 

[Joe Shearer]

[QUOTE="Anazvara, post: 8426493, member: 1759why can't I insult Indians on a pakistani forum ? ........... if you and your friend look ugly in the mirror, don't blame the mirror.



All we see is the wrinkles around you lips and the white stain on your chin.

then why you are crying when i report to mods?

That's his game, don't you see? This is a loser in real life, and he has to justify himself, somehow. He does it by getting into fora like these, and suicide trolling. So he gets kicked out, he tells himself and everyone who will listen that it was for his straightforward behaviour OR for his honesty OR for his nationality OR because people envy his brains and IQ. And that becomes a 2-in-1 reason. That helps himself to justify to himself his repeated failures with his own life. He fails at his job, at his relationships, at everything, the same way he fails here: by making weird remarks, by attacking people who don't agree with him like a rabid dog, by abusing others, by taking bizarre stands and trying to explain why people keep getting rid of him.

Poor sod.

 

[Joe Shearer]

That's his game, don't you see? This is a loser in real life, and he has to justify himself, somehow. He does it by getting into fora like these, and suicide trolling. So he gets kicked out, he tells himself and everyone who will listen that it was for his straightforward behaviour OR for his honesty OR for his nationality OR because people envy his brains and IQ. And that becomes a 2-in-1 reason. That helps himself to justify to himself his repeated failures with his own life. He fails at his job, at his relationships, at everything, the same way he fails here: by making weird remarks, by attacking people who don't agree with him like a rabid dog, by abusing others, by taking bizarre stands and trying to explain why people keep getting rid of him.

Poor sod.

probably split personality...

No, I suspect he's the same in real life. Fails at everything and has a victim's explanation for each failure.