Indian Army organizes Iftar party

[Olympus81]

Pakistan is not a theocratic by any stretch of imagination.

Jinnah was an Ismaili, first law minister was a Hindu. Never have any religious party won a sizeable vote.

It is a confused state. Neither a secular nor a theocracy. Pakistanis themselves are still confused about it. But its not a deal breaker. The constitution of Pakistan does not have to come under a certain definition. What is important is that a social contract between the state and its citizen is properly defined. That still remains a far fetched goal.

 

[Paji]

I'm not one to knock what other people believe in religious terms, but this is a joke. A Sikh in front and center, half of them aren't even holding their hands in front of themselves properly. Even the massive gaps between the soldiers while praying is absolutely ridiculius. They can't even claim covid restrictions because none of these retards are wearing a mask.

This was 100% a photo op, and not an actual pray. I would hazard a guess and say even the iftar was nothing more than a propaganda show, and the soldiers probably weren't even fasting in the first place (though this last part is pure speculation).

Pure stupidity.

The idea here is not to demonstrate that the Corps Commander is familiar with all the ulema fatwas about how non Muslims can offer namaz, but to show the Muslim soldiers in the Indian army that the generals want to participate in their religious observances with humility. Muslim officers, likewise, participate in Hindu, Sikh and Christian festivals.

 

[villageidiot]

Not sure about the religious aspects, but this is probably a corps level gathering, based on the presence of a three star general, and a maulvi is probably involved in the proceedings. Individual units usually won't have maulvis assigned unless the number of Muslim troops is substantial.

Giving iftar parties by non Muslims is actually quite common and not restricted to the Indian Army. Even many BJP politicians organise iftar parties.

What stumped me is that they are all standing on prayer mats and facing in one direction with their hands tied. Muslims only do that for namaz and non-muslims don't do that in their worship afaik.

Other than that, I understand the institutional stuff, iftaris and all.

Okay. Seems this is from last year and they are "offering namaz".

https://twitter.com/x/status/1518609238888615937

 

[Kaniska]

Is that a sikh in front and center?

Is it not obvious by looking at the pic?
Indian army organize these events for all religion where people across different faith participate based on their will.

 

[Paji]

What stumped me is that they are all standing on prayer mats and facing in one direction with their hands tied. Muslims only do that for namaz and non-muslims don't do that in their worship afaik.

Other than that, I understand the institutional stuff, iftaris and all.

Again, the Indian army officers still get instilled the British Indian Army ethos that the religion of the officers is the religion of the troops. They are just trying to show their respect and participate in the festival the best they can. They will also try to blend in during the Hindu, Sikh , Christian festivities. For the Indian Army officers, it is a more a cultural event than a religious one - in a respectful way. That is just the way they are trained.

 

[Kaniska]

nice show Baz drama....

Just FYI.. eyes are supposed to facing down wards...


reminds me of the drama Indian Army did in Kargil.. bowing down during funeral prayers

lol. .. seriously Indian Army is one joker army

Well…we can clearly see the impact of so powerful and all in all of army of Pakistan …So it is better to be a joker army in front of rivals than be a powerful army and destroy the nation…

You guys will never learn the lesson from history.

Again, the Indian army officers still get instilled the British Indian Army ethos that the religion of the officers is the religion of the troops. They are just trying to show their respect and participate in the festival the best they can. They will also try to blend in during the Hindu, Sikh , Christian festivities. For the Indian Army officers, it is a more a cultural event than a religious one - in a respectful way. That is just the way they are trained.

You are talking to the people who are blind to beleive about respecting all religion with equal basis…They will find fault even with the nice gesture bu other faiths to respect our citizens

 

[villageidiot]

Well…we can clearly see the impact of so powerful and all in all of army of Pakistan …So it is better to be a joker army in front of rivals than be a powerful army and destroy the nation…


You guys will never learn the lesson from history.



You are talking to the people who are blind to beleive about respecting all religion with equal basis…They will find fault even with the nice gesture bu other faiths to respect our citizens

No need to get defensive. Inclusivity is good but worship in the manner of other religion, I think, doesn't hold the same meaning in hinduism as it does in other religions.
Hindus "offering namaz" may mean inclusivity but muslims doing pooja (worshipping any other god(s)) is the single biggest sin there is in Islam.

Since we are not operating on the same plane of understanding, I think this discussion should end here.

 

[Paji]

Pakistan is not a theocratic by any stretch of imagination.

Jinnah was an Ismaili, first law minister was a Hindu. Never have any religious party won a sizeable vote.

It is a confused state. Neither a secular nor a theocracy. Pakistanis themselves are still confused about it. But its not a deal breaker. The constitution of Pakistan does not have to come under a certain definition. What is important is that a social contract between the state and its citizen is properly defined. That still remains a far fetched goal.

Well it is not a theocracy in the mould of the Vatican or the Caliphate , but according to the Article 62, someone not well versed in the Islamic scriptures cannot become even a MNA. Pakistan doesn't have any identity to keep the country glued together except for Islam.

The Pakistan of today is very different from that which Jinnah created. What was the minority population in Pakistan in 1947 and what is it today? Will the Pakistani awaam accept a Hindu or Sikh army chief or Chief Justice or President today?

muslims doing pooja (worshipping any other god(s)) is the single biggest sin there is in Islam.

I suppose this may be one reason why only Muslims from military families or liberal backgrounds join the Indian military, because a officer is pretty much expected to be involved in the religious and cultural observances of the troops under his command.

 

[That Guy]

The idea here is not to demonstrate that the Corps Commander is familiar with all the ulema fatwas about how non Muslims can offer namaz, but to show the Muslim soldiers in the Indian army that the generals want to participate in their religious observances with humility. Muslim officers, likewise, participate in Hindu, Sikh and Christian festivals.

It would have been more respectable to just not participate in such a blatantly propagandist way.

That's a shit excuse.

 

[El Sidd]

I think because Pakistan is a theocratic state, most Pakistanis cannot even comprehend the idea of a secular country or institution where no one really cares what your religion is.

Contrary to the narrative built in Pakistan about Hindu India being the great enemy of Islam, the truth is that the Indian military is remarkably non-religious and meritocratic. For instance, none of the three most famous Indian generals involved in the victory in the 1971 war was Hindu. Gen Sam Maneckshaw, the chief, was a Parsi. Gen Aurora, the eastern army commander who accepted Gen Niazi's surrender, was Sikh and Gen Jacob, the chief of staff, who flew to Dhaka to negotiate the surrender terms with Niazi, was a Jew. While the Muslim officers joining the armed forces has been largely confined to a few military families, there has been no discrimination and Air Chief Marshal Latif did achieve the highest rank and became air chief. The vast majority of Pakistani awaam , which has been taught to look at everything through the prism of religion, would probably consider this tokenism and propoganda, but the fact is that, despite the odd incidents of religious conflicts involving the not well educated and poor sections of Indian society, India is largely a successful modern secular state.

India is a mob masquerading as a nation.

 

[RescueRanger]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1639994531289645057

https://twitter.com/x/status/1643616878751891456

This is what happens when you hire Paul W Anderson to script your propaganda photoshoot

#Epicfail

 

[iamnobody]

Is it not obvious by looking at the pic?
Indian army organize these events for all religion where people across different faith participate based on their will.

When will they host beef eating festivals?

 

[hatehs]

I suppose this may be one reason why only Muslims from military families or liberal backgrounds join the Indian military, because a officer is pretty much expected to be involved in the religious and cultural observances of the troops under his command.

Some vile pot-bellied skinny fat vegetarian coomer H who has spent his entire life scamming Westerners from his call centre in Bangalulupur or whatever slum city he comes from trying to blame Muslims for not joining their military while this is what actual H military men and politicians thought of Muslims in the army:

"As a result of Kashmir's accession to India, I had hoped that previous restriction on the recruitment of Kashmir Muslims would be lifted and they will be given adequate representation in the Army. I was taken aback when a secret circular came to my attention that directed recruitment officers not to enlist Muslims in the Army. Word about this circular spread among the young men who took out a procession to Mujahid Manzil (the Sheikh's headquarters). When the Defence Minister Gopalaswami Ayyangar came to Jammu, I took up the matter with him. He vehemently denied any such circular could have been issued in the first place. I asked Gen. K.M. Cariappa why Kargil Muslims were not recruited, to which he replied that their loyalty to India was suspect."

"The author adds, "shockingly, a handout issued by the army through the defence wing of the Press Information Bureau in Jammu on 1 April 2001, reads: `No vacancy for Muslims and tradesmen.' Despite protests in the Kashmir Legislative Assembly, and by the then Chief Minister, Farooq Abdullah, the Army did not deny its statement.""

"Decades later, in 1985 George Fernandes, now Defence Minister, admitted "the Muslim is not wanted in the Armed Forces because he is always suspect - whether we want to admit it or not. Most Indians consider Muslims a fifth column for Pakistan." Whether he has done anything in redress remains one of his better kept secrets. The situation is no better in the Air Force or the Navy. The former Chief of the Naval Staff, Admiral Vishnu Bhagwat, a man of integrity, noted: "There are hardly any Muslim officers in the Navy and none of them holds posts of any consequence.""

"Manekshaw told the author that two Defence Ministers "Swaran Singh and Babu Jagjivan Ram opposed the cases of two Muslim officers whom he wanted promoted to the rank of Lieutenant General.""

https://frontline.thehindu.com/other/article30219456.ece/amp/

 

[Areesh]

@villageidiot

What is this nonsense??? Yeh kia tha??

 

[Paji]

Some vile pot-bellied skinny fat vegetarian coomer H who has spent his entire life scamming Westerners from his call centre in Bangalulupur or whatever slum city he comes from trying to blame Muslims for not joining their military while this is what actual H military men and politicians thought of Muslims in the army:

"As a result of Kashmir's accession to India, I had hoped that previous restriction on the recruitment of Kashmir Muslims would be lifted and they will be given adequate representation in the Army. I was taken aback when a secret circular came to my attention that directed recruitment officers not to enlist Muslims in the Army. Word about this circular spread among the young men who took out a procession to Mujahid Manzil (the Sheikh's headquarters). When the Defence Minister Gopalaswami Ayyangar came to Jammu, I took up the matter with him. He vehemently denied any such circular could have been issued in the first place. I asked Gen. K.M. Cariappa why Kargil Muslims were not recruited, to which he replied that their loyalty to India was suspect."

"The author adds, "shockingly, a handout issued by the army through the defence wing of the Press Information Bureau in Jammu on 1 April 2001, reads: `No vacancy for Muslims and tradesmen.' Despite protests in the Kashmir Legislative Assembly, and by the then Chief Minister, Farooq Abdullah, the Army did not deny its statement.""

"Decades later, in 1985 George Fernandes, now Defence Minister, admitted "the Muslim is not wanted in the Armed Forces because he is always suspect - whether we want to admit it or not. Most Indians consider Muslims a fifth column for Pakistan." Whether he has done anything in redress remains one of his better kept secrets. The situation is no better in the Air Force or the Navy. The former Chief of the Naval Staff, Admiral Vishnu Bhagwat, a man of integrity, noted: "There are hardly any Muslim officers in the Navy and none of them holds posts of any consequence.""

"Manekshaw told the author that two Defence Ministers "Swaran Singh and Babu Jagjivan Ram opposed the cases of two Muslim officers whom he wanted promoted to the rank of Lieutenant General.""

https://frontline.thehindu.com/other/article30219456.ece/amp/

Lol, ad hominem attacks are the last resort of the stupid and ignorant, because it is always easier to make up some fantasy than to argue on facts. I am not going to reveal my personal credentials in response to trolling and let my arguments speak for themselves.

Most of the people you have quoted are know to be left liberals with an agenda of defaming India, but that doesn't change the facts. It is a fact that despite the population of Parsis in India being only 50K out of over a billion, the first of only two Field Marshals was from that community. Despite the population of Jews being only 5k, one of the most famous generals was from that community. Several service chiefs have been from the Sikh, Christian and Muslim communities. Four Supreme Commanders of the Armed Forces have been Muslims.

It is true that Muslims are under-represented in the armed forces, but that is mostly because the poorer sections of Muslim society in India are orthodox and do not fit in with the secular ethos of the army. The recruitment of soldiers ( not of officer rank) in the infantry regiments is still on pariochal lines for historical reasons and certain communities have disproportionate representation there ( Sikhs, Rajputs, Gurkhas, etc) but the officer corps is open to all through open competition. Many members of the Muslim elite make careers there and have risen to three star and even four star rank . If there was active discrimination against Muslims, the proportion of Muslims among officers would not be higher than the proportion of Muslims among the troops.