Indian Army ORBAT Against Pakistan-Visualised

[Genghis khan1]

my unit was deployed in Bhimber sector against the legendary 4th Rajpoot regiment. kept us very busy. these were times to cross the LoC and try to abduct or kill opposing soldiers. sniping and mortar fire,

we played a prank on a civilian relative of our unit officer who came over to spend night with us. we faked an Indian attack at night time on our base a lot of shooting and whistling and the guy ran off from the sleeping bunk into the latrine. his caption cousin was the main planner of this prank lol.

Back in good ol’ days before fencing, you can simply pass under Indian post into IOK and they wouldn’t care.

 

[Joe Shearer]

my unit was deployed in Bhimber sector against the legendary 4th Rajpoot regiment. kept us very busy. these were times to cross the LoC and try to abduct or kill opposing soldiers. sniping and mortar fire,

we played a prank on a civilian relative of our unit officer who came over to spend night with us. we faked an Indian attack at night time on our base a lot of shooting and whistling and the guy ran off from the sleeping bunk into the latrine. his caption cousin was the main planner of this prank lol.

I was sent off on a defence delegation to a country to our west, where the military attache was a Guards officer who had come here off the LOC (obviously, the posting was a reward for serving time on the LOC!). When I managed to catch him alone (the other members were inclined to keep very regular hours and eschew alcohol and all but their accustomed food), I asked him how it had been up there. His answer was pithy and simple. He said each unit on taking over, on either side, was tested hard by their opposite numbers. If the unit reacted well, all was well.

Those were easier times, from his account. Not so much of crossing over, more of firing with open sights on fixed lines of fire. You knew what you were getting into, you knew what you could expect. I don't know when you were there, but I'm talking about 98-99 and such. Bhimber (to you) was the very touchy stretch between Rajouri and Sundarbani, back to Jourian, although there were other touchy spots, near Gurez, and the black hole between Uri and Poonch.

we played a prank on a civilian relative of our unit officer who came over to spend night with us. we faked an Indian attack at night time on our base a lot of shooting and whistling and the guy ran off from the sleeping bunk into the latrine. his caption cousin was the main planner of this prank lol.

Civilians are always fair game. I took care never to go to close to the border with boisterous youngsters from the Army.

Back in good ol’ days before fencing, you can simply pass under Indian post into IOK and they wouldn’t care.

And vice versa, and you are probably aware that the fencing is not a panacea; there are still points where nobody can stop you moving around (you have to be very fit).

 

[V. Makarov]

Take my poor man's positive rating

 

[Joe Shearer]

All ears.

It's too late now, you have done a very good job, and there is no question of asking you to undo it.

However........

To illustrate the point to a certain group, it was convenient to link all Indian Corps HQ, from XIV Corps at Leh (reluctantly, since XIV Corps has little to do with the western frontiers any more) to XXI Corps at Bhopal with a single broad line; then their under-command divisions were shown as slaved to them with radiating lines, and all of these divisions were then linked separately.

I did this on Google Maps, and do not know how to preserve these lines and connections.

The effect on repeating the exercise on the other side was to show in stark detail the very heavy concentration of Pakistani formations in severely linear fashion, and the relatively lighter concentrations of Indian troops on the other side, and their disposition in random fashion.

It becomes even more marked if V Corps, XI Corps and XII Corps are excluded, but the focus is also limited to the linear space between Skardu and Multan.

All ears.

There are also fossilised remains of internal disagreements that are not appropriately discussed in an open forum of this sort. Including them in the ORBAT is misleading; they were taken from some place, and will, in time, when people remember what happened, and when people see our imminent danger to the north, in unexpected places and locations, be restored to that place/those places.

The fact that you had to draw such complicated graphs for some areas must have given you a hint.

 

[Raja Porus]

illustrate the point to a certain group, it was convenient to link all Indian Corps HQ, from XIV Corps at Leh (reluctantly, since XIV Corps has little to do with the western frontiers any more) to XXI Corps at Bhopal with a single broad line; then their under-command divisions were shown as slaved to them with radiating lines, and all of these divisions were then linked separately

Will do so in a day or two.

I did this on Google Maps, and do not know how to preserve these lines and connections

You can't. That's why taking a screenshot and then cropping/editing is the only choice.

Pakistani formations in severely linear fashion, and the relatively lighter concentrations of Indian troops on the other side, and their disposition in random fashion.

Exactly, I've noticed as well that Indian army deployment is rather dense and lateral as compared to paksitan. They will have to have good lateral communication lines. On the other hand PA's divisions are linear and quite thin, like a chain. And if a single link (God forbid) breaks, the whole chain will break. Fortunately Pak has good communication lines connecting N-S as well as dense road network in areas such as Gujranwala etc.

 

[Joe Shearer]

You can't. That's why taking a screenshot and then cropping/editing is the only choice.

Omigod! It's as easy as that? Thanks chief.

Will do so in a day or two.

You can't. That's why taking a screenshot and then cropping/editing is the only choice.

Exactly, I've noticed as well that Indian army deployment is rather dense and lateral as compared to paksitan. They will have to have good lateral communication lines. On the other hand PA's divisions are linear and quite thin, like a chain. And if a single link (God forbid) breaks, the whole chain will break. Fortunately Pak has good communication lines connecting N-S as well as dense road network in areas such as Gujranwala etc.

Never thought of it like that!!

 

[Tomcats]

What do the yellow lines represent in the image?

 

[Joe Shearer]

1965 -

an entire indian armored brigade was stopped by major aziz bhatti at barki canal having just a company and some RR guns

-------

1971
two companies of IA barely made in 400m inside pakistani terrritory near head sulamnki at okara and were stopped by major shabbir shareef having 4 x less force


western theatre is not east pakistan, my little indian

today, PA is substantially stronger than it was in 1971 . layered defences, mine fields, anti tank ditches, drone,s ATGM( thousands ) are ready to welcome you

try it
-------

Thank you for your very valuable inputs.

The presentation of the ORBAT of both sides will become significantly easier because of the deep thought that you seem to have given to the subject.

Good for you, little woman.man.

 

[applesauce]

70%.

There're reasons for that.

The Pakistan Army forms a chain right from the Northern Territories down to Karachi. Those formations are ALWAYS there. This is for 3,323 kms of border length.

The PLA has lightly armed border guards everywhere, and when they want to cause friction, they concentrate between one brigade to two divisions at that designated friction point. Our borders with them are 3,488 kms., 5% more than with Pakistan.

If we were to man our borders with China at the same density as we do our borders with Pakistan, we would need (23 divisions + 5% = ) 24.5 divisions, an increase of 12 divisions, of about 180,000 jawans, since there are already 9+3 divisions deployed, 9 in the east, 3 in the west.

india already outnumbers the PLA on the indian/chinese borders by quite a bit.

putting huge densities of men on the borders isn't really all that helpful, especially if the borders have difficult natural terrain, like the himalayas.
china instead relies on superior infrastructure to be able to quickly move more men and supplies in at times of tension or war and superior hardware to be able to hold the line until said reinforcements can get there.

 

[Joe Shearer]

india already outnumbers the PLA on the indian/chinese borders by quite a bit.

putting huge densities of men on the borders isn't really all that helpful, especially if the borders have difficult natural terrain, like the himalayas.
china instead relies on superior infrastructure to be able to quickly move more men and supplies in at times of tension or war and superior hardware to be able to hold the line until said reinforcements can get there.

I thought I'd said all that, but obviously it didn't come through clearly.

Thanks.

 

[imadul]

In this thread I have tried to not only summarize but also visualize Indian army's deployment especially along the Paksitani front.
(Hopefully this thread will help us to not only have an accurate force comparison and but also to run exercises with relative realism and professionally)



Western Command:

II Corps - Ambala
1 Armd Div- Patiala
9 Inf Div- Meerut
22 Inf Div- Meerut
40 Arty Div - Ambala
16 (I) Armd bde- Mamun


IX Corps - Yol
26 Inf Div - Jammu
29 Inf Div -Pathankot
2 (I) Armd bde- Mamun
3 (I) Armd bde- Ratnuchak


XI Corps - Jalandhar
7 Inf Div- Firozpur
15 Inf Div- Amritsar
23 (I) Armd bde - Amritsar
55 (I) Mech bde- Beas


View attachment 827931
(Deployment of Indian Army's Western command)

Southwestern Command:

I Strike Corps - Mathura
33 Armoured Division -Hisar
4 RAPID- Allahabad
42 Arty Div- Alwar
14 (I) Armd bde- Bathinda

X Corps - Bhatinda
16 Infantry Division - Sriganganagar
18 RAPID -Kota
24 RAPID - Bikaner
6 (I) Armoured Brigade - Suratgarh


Southern Command:

XXI Corps - Bhopal
31 Armoured Division- Jhansi
36 RAPID - Sagar
54 Infantry Division Secunderabad
41 Artillery Division- Pune

XII Corps - Jodhpur
11 Infantry Division - Ahmedabad
75 (I) Infantry Brigade- Bhuj
12 RAPID - Jodhpur
4 (I) Armoured Brigade - Bathinda


View attachment 827932
(Deployment of Indian Army's South-Western and Southern commands)

Northern Command:

XIV Corps - Leh
3 Inf Div - Leh
8 MD- Dras
121 (I) Inf bde- Kargil
102 (I) Inf bde - Partapur
118 (I) Inf bde- Nyoma
254 (I) Armd bde- Leh

XV Corps - Srinagar:
19 Inf Div- Baramulla
28 Inf Div-Gurez

XVI Corps - Nagrota
10 RAPID- Akhnoor
25 Inf Div- Rajauri
39 Inf Div- Yol

View attachment 827938
(Indian Army Northern command deployment. The formations marked in orange are of Western command)

Took me a whole day but was worth it.
Any amendment would be welcome.

@Joe Shearer @PanzerKiel @Signalian @Inception-06 @Ghost 125 @HRK @SQ8 @iLION12345_1 @rvats @farooqbhai007 @waz
@HRK @Irfan Baloch @The Eagle
@Jungibaaz

I would also request the mods to make this a sticky thread so it can be utilised by all in the future. (@The Eagle )

I did that about 2 years ago. I will try to find the post. Must be buried somewhere. I also pit that against PA Corps and scenario in J&K and China involvement.

 

[Vapnope]

@Signalian this thread will interest you

 

[Chak Bamu]

this thread is about PAK army ORBAT .

Read the title again, sir. That may give you some pause. Good day.

To other members: Please do not share any information that you may rue later.

 

[Signalian]

@Signalian this thread will interest you

Wonder from where he picked up data

254 (I) Armoured Brigade is called SNOW LEOPARD BRIGADE
and
118 (I) Infantry Brigade is called PARASHU BRIGADE
where as
102 (I) Infantry Brigade called Partapur is deployed in Siachen or vice versa.

 

[Signalian]

The 3rd Infanrty Division - Karu (TRISHUL Division) is broken down as:
a. 70th Infantry Brigade - Kiari
b. 114th Infantry Brigade - Tangste (CHUSHUL WARRIOR Brigade)
c. 81st Infantry Brigade - Durbuk (PATIALA Brigade)
d. 3rd Artillery Brigade - Nimu

42 Artillery Division is called "Strategic Strikers"