Indian Army gets Battle ready on Jaisalmer border with Pakistan.

[notorious_eagle]

As I said Iron Dome doesn't take out everything and anything that comes (although multiple missiles
can yield better results of interception), it certainly reduces the chances & probability of a hit on the
projected target > an advancing tank column, for instance.

I have said this before in a previous thread, Iron Dome is best to counter an asymmetrical threat and not a conventional one. Sheer artillery shelling from the opposing side will knock out the Iron Dome in a matter of minutes. There is a reason why the Indian Army is yet to field a order for this because it will produce unfruitful results. It is a great weapon to counter unguided little rockets that are used by Hamas, but to counter a guided manoeuvring missiles that is also being backed by artillery shelling will make Iron Dome simply useless.

 

[notorious_eagle]

How can you compare age-old wars to modern-day battles? Do you think India & pakistan are just like
how they were in 60s and 70s? India now has spy satellites watching the borders 24x7, NOTHING is
hidden (except tunnels) IA knows exactly where what is much better than PA today.

I agree. Both sides are armed to the teeth and very well trained, if a war does take place (God Forbid) it is going to be extremely nasty. Both sides monitor each other's military installations quite extensively. PA and IA both employ human intel extensively which is much more useful than satellite imagery. It would be a mistake on your part to assume that PA does not has access to a satellite. PA has regular access to satellite imagery that i can assure you off, but i won't divulge into more information regarding this topic due to obvious concerns.

In case of any armored thrust, PA is inadequately equipped with anti-tank weapons and sufficient
np. of attack helicopters to stop the advance, don't even think blundering NASRs can stop an advance,
all our vehicles are NBC-proof. nukes won't make any bigger damage than conventional explosives on
troop positions. They'll only invite sanctions and cutting off supply of spares for critical aircraft like
F-16 and SAAB Erieye for decades to come, it'll only worsen your situation further.

I will keep the discussion of NASR out but i will say that PAF does keep 45 days worth of spares in its reserves. Coming back to the topic regarding IA's thrust. You are quite misinformed if you think PA is inadequately equipped with ATGM rounds. In fact i would argue PA is more than adequately equipped with this and they have evenly spread out ATGM hell holes through out the border with IA. Any IA Armoured Thrust will met intense resistance from PA side. In Punjab, the natural barriers and the terrain already serve a major obstacle to the advancing IA Armour Columns. PA is well dug in and know the terrain better than their counter parts. The battle in Thar Desert is going to be much more fluid. Looking at the balance of power there, i simply don't see any advantage that IA Armour has over the PA Armour. IA still does not has overwhelming majority over PA in modern tanks and i don't see any advantage that T90 offers over the Al Khalid.

A successful Army operational can only be conducted under a realm of air superiority secured by the
AF, your troops on ground will have hell to jump into with their ai support falling like ninepins against
air-dominance fighters like MKI. Force-multipliers are useful when air superiority has already been
secured, not in an airspace filled with enemy AD fighters equipped with 400-km ranged AWACS-killer
missiles!

I fail to see how the MKI will rule the skies, we have had serious discussions about this topic and the conclusion was that reaching air superiority is not going to be as easy as the Indian fanboys make it out to be. Your more than welcome to make proposals regarding how the MKI will rule the skies.

I have no idea how you came the conclusion that force multipliers are useful if air superiority has been achieved, this is possibly the most delusional narrative i have ever heard. Force multipliers are great a source to spot the enemy before and add additional electronic warfare power to the strike packages. They are perfect assets to compliment aircrafts that field lesser grade radars. It will allow our aircraft to see the MKI exactly at the same time the MKI sees them, thats one major advantage of MKI that has been levelled. The 400 km long missile you are talking about, i have a hard time believing it can shoot down a manoeuvring target at its maximum distance that is jamming it. The longer the distance, the less chances of a kill, thats just simple physics.

Your Navy is in the worst condition than ever, your ships carrying 180km range Harpoon have no
chance of survival against IN stealth warships with 300km-range BrahMos supersonic missiles. Your Navy
lacks effective stealth features in warships (in an naval exercise IN ships carrying emplaced radars
sent to track Shivalik at the sea trials failed to see Shivalik at 100km due to its stealth characteristics),
you have 5 submarines to our 15 (14 conventional, 1 nuclear), plus no aircraft carrier to deploy
sea-based airpower for shore-attacks.

Indeed, Pakistan Navy is the weakest link in our Armed Forces. You would have a point if PN was heading out and meeting the IN in the open sea for a battle. But it appears that PN strategy is to stay within her shores and engage the IN from there. That opens the IN to constant threat from modern ASM which the PN can fire from its surface, undersea and coastal batteries. It is much more easier to employ a strategy of 'sea denial' than employ a strategy of 'sea dominance'. IN will have to take attrition if it wants to impose an effective blockade of Pakistani shores. But lets say a Chinese or an American ship filled with goods wants to sail through, would the IN board the ship and stop it? I have my utmost doubts regarding this.

Dont talk about MMRCA you know nothing of, the deal is confirmed, the aircraft is already operational
in the vendor nation AF+navy, all that is left is price negotiation and final inking. Think about your
own aircraft aacquisitions instead, you have some 100-odd 4th generation planes to India's arsenal
of >200 4.5 generation fighters, and that much-hyped FC-20 hasn't even flown as yet!

Lets have a mature discussion instead of a fanboy discussion. Instead of pitching me numbers, how about you pitch me the integrated strategy that IAF will use to employ all these assets to tame down PAF. Than we will have a proper discussion, please don't pitch us numbers.

 

[GORKHALI]

I agree. Both sides are armed to the teeth and very well trained, if a war does take place (God Forbid) it is going to be extremely nasty. Both sides monitor each other's military installations quite extensively. PA and IA both employ human intel extensively which is much more useful than satellite imagery. It would be a mistake on your part to assume that PA does not has access to a satellite. PA has regular access to satellite imagery that i can assure you off, but i won't divulge into more information regarding this topic due to obvious concerns.



I will keep the discussion of NASR out but i will say that PAF does keep 45 days worth of spares in its reserves. Coming back to the topic regarding IA's thrust. You are quite misinformed if you think PA is inadequately equipped with ATGM rounds. In fact i would argue PA is more than adequately equipped with this and they have evenly spread out ATGM hell holes through out the border with IA. Any IA Armoured Thrust will met intense resistance from PA side. In Punjab, the natural barriers and the terrain already serve a major obstacle to the advancing IA Armour Columns. PA is well dug in and know the terrain better than their counter parts. The battle in Thar Desert is going to be much more fluid. Looking at the balance of power there, i simply don't see any advantage that IA Armour has over the PA Armour. IA still does not has overwhelming majority over PA in modern tanks and i don't see any advantage that T90 offers over the Al Khalid.



I fail to see how the MKI will rule the skies, we have had serious discussions about this topic and the conclusion was that reaching air superiority is not going to be as easy as the Indian fanboys make it out to be. Your more than welcome to make proposals regarding how the MKI will rule the skies.

I have no idea how you came the conclusion that force multipliers are useful if air superiority has been achieved, this is possibly the most delusional narrative i have ever heard. Force multipliers are great a source to spot the enemy before and add additional electronic warfare power to the strike packages. They are perfect assets to compliment aircrafts that field lesser grade radars. It will allow our aircraft to see the MKI exactly at the same time the MKI sees them, thats one major advantage of MKI that has been levelled. The 400 km long missile you are talking about, i have a hard time believing it can shoot down a manoeuvring target at its maximum distance that is jamming it. The longer the distance, the less chances of a kill, thats just simple physics.



Indeed, Pakistan Navy is the weakest link in our Armed Forces. You would have a point if PN was heading out and meeting the IN in the open sea for a battle. But it appears that PN strategy is to stay within her shores and engage the IN from there. That opens the IN to constant threat from modern ASM which the PN can fire from its surface, undersea and coastal batteries. It is much more easier to employ a strategy of 'sea denial' than employ a strategy of 'sea dominance'. IN will have to take attrition if it wants to impose an effective blockade of Pakistani shores. But lets say a Chinese or an American ship filled with goods wants to sail through, would the IN board the ship and stop it? I have my utmost doubts regarding this.



Lets have a mature discussion instead of a fanboy discussion. Instead of pitching me numbers, how about you pitch me the integrated strategy that IAF will use to employ all these assets to tame down PAF. Than we will have a proper discussion, please don't pitch us numbers.

From Top to bottom in bold letters !!Lets talk about -

1> What kind of satellite imaginary,you are talking about? Paksat ? Are You talking about Chinese one with access to Pakistan generals enjoyin Chai biscuit in AC command Center?
But Indian army keeps it's big eye over your territory with her own Spy satellites 24/7 and if needed Russian can be used though again if needed only.
2> How come you know Punjab terrain better than IA ? If am not wrong the same PA Tanks Bog down in Punjab paddy field in 65?

3> T90S has numerous advantage over AK ,former is OEM product and other is Copy,doesn't that makes it better ??.How come PA operates more Modern tanks,Till now IA operates 600+T90,124 Arjun Mk1 better than T90 and 700 +heavily Upgraded T72 Ajeya leave those 1200 + T 72 alone . T 55 are no more in IA frontline but mothballed and for Static display.

PA operates some 700 + of total T80U and AK tanks.

I completely not able to see any advantage here for PA mate but more worry for PA when more T90 started inducting in next fiscal year with revamp of HVF.

4> Fully agree with you in case of MKI here,they will not be out for supporting advancing Armourregiment but Jaguars to provide CAS which is one of the best in this JOB after A10 and Su25 if am not wrong.MKI will be only needed if PAF F16 or Jf17 paints IA radars.Deal with that .

5> First of all you are completely wrong in case of Coastal battery here mate .
Day 1: You will see IN clubs and Brahmos pounding your coastal cites and destroying whatever batteries you got with range even more than 300Km(You know MTCR is a hogwash when it comes to Indo-Russian case ) which are far far from any battery which PN can pitch in here.
Day 2 : Mig 29k and Harrier Firing ASCM Kh31 and harpoons with no opposition from PN Mirage 5 (They will drop like flies in Arabian sea with BVR attack )

 

[Kompromat]

Why talk of nukes when Jaisalmer installations can be turned to ash simply by 300mm rocket artillery ?

 

[Rafi]

If the indians think they can do it, why don't they come and try. Poor indian fanboys = having spent time in india, I can honestly say - we have little to fear from him, vigilance yes - but india is a soft nation - it does not have the strength, imagination or the will to take us on. 71 was an aberration from the thousands of years india was dominated by other civilizations. The indian culture and civilization are basically effeminate in nature. To my Pakistan brothers, my suggestion is to let the indians get worked up, and expend a bit of their arm chair generalship - that is all they can do.

Why talk of nukes when Jaisalmer installations can be turned to ash simply by 300mm rocket artillery ?

Blood and destruction shall be so in use
And dreadful objects so familiar
That mothers shall but smile when they behold

Their infants quarter'd with the hands of war;
All pity choked with custom of fell deeds:
And Caesar's spirit, ranging for revenge,
With Ate by his side come hot from hell,
Shall in these confines with a monarch's voice

Cry 'Havoc,' and let slip the dogs of war;
That this foul deed shall smell above the earth
With carrion men, groaning for burial.

 

[GORKHALI]

Why talk of nukes when Jaisalmer installations can be turned to ash simply by 300mm rocket artillery ?

Indians are idiots bunch of People who built their Base near Pakistan border with 150km and Pakistani are super duper Mega minds who'll bring their MBRL batteries within 40km to face artillery,smerch and Pinakas trioka firing range near border with extensive CI3 networking and battlefield fire finder radars. Well done mate you just destroyed IAF base in C&C

 

[Rafi]

Indians are idiots bunch of People who built their Base near Pakistan border with 150km and Pakistani are super duper Mega minds who'll bring their MBRL batteries within 40km to face artillery,smerch and Pinakas trioka firing range near border with extensive CI3 networking and battlefield fire finder radars. Well done mate you just destroyed IAF base in C&C

The A-100 artillery rocket system has 10 launching tubes for 300-mm rockets (the original Smerch has 12). Chinese manufacturers claim that the A-100 is not compatible with the 300-mm rockets of the Smerch. They also insist that rockets use different propellant motors and components. A standard rocket is 7.3 m long and weights 840 kg. A variety of warheads are available, including various HE-fragmentation, fuel-air explosive, and cargo warheads. It is claimed that the A-100 MLRS has a maximum range of 120 km, versus 90 km of improved Russian Smerch. Minimum range of fire is 40 km. Rockets are fitted with a range and direction correction system for improved accuracy.

A-100 Multiple Launch Rocket System | Military-Today.com

 

[gslv mk3]

why trolling^^^.People here exactly know that India has SRBMs and guided rocket systems capable of targeting Lahore from Indian soil.
On Topic:I think a lot of exercises are simply draining money.We need to improve network centric battlefield capabilities

 

[Kompromat]

Indians are idiots bunch of People who built their Base near Pakistan border with 150km and Pakistani are super duper Mega minds who'll bring their MBRL batteries within 40km to face artillery,smerch and Pinakas trioka firing range near border with extensive CI3 networking and battlefield fire finder radars. Well done mate you just destroyed IAF base in C&C

AR1A Multiple Launch Rocket System | Military-Today.com

We have TOT for 130Km variant.

why trolling^^^.People here exactly know that India has SRBMs and guided rocket systems capable of targeting Lahore from Indian soil.
On Topic:I think a lot of exercises are simply draining money.We need to improve network centric battlefield capabilities

Read the WW-II history , bombing civilian cities is easier said than done because they draw a similar response. Both New dehli and Mumbai and every city around is well within the range of Babur and long range multi barrel rocket systems.

 

[gslv mk3]

AR1A Multiple Launch Rocket System | Military-Today.com

We have TOT for 130Km variant.

Read the WW-II history , bombing civilian cities is easier said than done because they draw a similar response. Both New dehli and Mumbai and every city around is well within the range of Babur and long range multi barrel rocket systems.

Sir such system will not go udetected under Battle field radrs/spysats/UAVs.Pakistan has got Indian cities under Babur range and India has got your under Shaurya quasi BM range

 

[Rafi]

Sir such system will not go udetected under Battle field radrs/spysats/UAVs.Pakistan has got Indian cities under Babur range and India has got your under Shaurya quasi BM range

So you are going to target Lahore, then in retaliation all the indian cities will come under fire, the international community will turn on india very swiftly if you deliberately target civilians. Grow up - you sound all of ten years old.

 

[KRAIT]

I would rather stick to decision of Indian strategy makers rather than some guy's knowledge of few weapons on both side of the borders.

Things don't work as said in an Internet forum...the variables involved are just too many for one to fathom.

War scenarios are being played over and over again by these strategists to get the better strategy....

 

[Rafi]

I would rather stick to decision of Indian strategy makers rather than some guy's knowledge of few weapons on both side of the borders.

Things don't work as said in an Internet forum...the variables involved are just too many for one to fathom.

War scenarios are being played over and over again by these strategists to get the better strategy....

And I would rather trust Pakistani strategists who are sworn to protect my motherland, our people will kill as many indians as we can, if they attack our motherland.

 

[Phoenix89]

I don't know why but this threads looks funny to me....people from both side talking about how one can destroy the enemy bases....There are so many intelligent folks out here, omg....So much knowledge about war strategies, wow....amazing....Hahaaha...Pls aap log strategies thodi low level banao, bechare army walo ke pass itna dimag nahi hai....

 

[KRAIT]

And I would rather trust Pakistani strategists who are sworn to protect my motherland, our people will kill as many indians as we can, if they attack our motherland.

Attaboy....at least someone understand few things are way too complicated for us.....You are right, they will have a counter-strategy for this too....BTW deliberately killing civilians will not be considered by them.