What's new

Indian Air Base at Pathankot under attack by gunmen.

Status
Not open for further replies.
Why Some Allege Pathankot 'Worst-Planned Op In 3 Decades'
manohar-parrikar_650x400_51452015000.jpg

Defence Minister Manohar Parrikar addressing press at Pathankot Air Base.

New Delhi: With the operations at the attacked Pathankot Air Force base nearly complete, details are emerging of a Command and Control fiasco that unfolded -as six terrorists were battled, there was a damaging tussle for operational control between the Army, Air Force and the National Security Guard or NSG.

A senior army officer closely involved in monitoring the operations told me, "This is the worst planned operation in more than three decades."

At least two top army leaders who have spoken to me but cannot be named for obvious reasons believe the overall command of the operation should always have wrested with the Army since there has never been a case where command of an active operation has been transferred from the Army to the National Security Guard, an elite police force under the Home Ministry. In this case, the NSG was given the lead role after two columns (60 men) of the Army had already been deployed in Pathankot in anticipation of an impending attack on the airbase. General VP Malik, the former Army Chief says, "Command of an operation is transferred to the Army once they are called for an anti-terrorism operation and, in this case, defence of an airfield operation."

pathankot-attack-pti_650x400_71451912970.jpg


I have also been told by reliable sources that there was a full-fledged disagreement between an Army Brigadier commanding operations till then, and the Inspector General (Operations) of the National Security Guard, who flew in on the orders of the Home Ministry. The situation became more confusing when the Air Officer Commanding, Western Air Command, was asked to fly to Pathankot to take key decisions in the conduct of the ongoing encounter prompting another disagreement, this time between the Air Force and the National Security Guard. The lack of cooperation and coordination between the different agencies was blistering.

Ultimately, the Army Brigadier stood down since he was junior to the NSG's IG (Operations), who has the rank of Major General. The National Security Guard ultimately retained overall control of the remainder of the operation though the Air Officer Commanding, an Air Marshal, remained on the airbase.

Top sources in the Army have also told NDTV that it is not at all their intention to make this an Army versus National Security Guard showdown since the actual fighting was done by soldiers of both forces often using Army assets like BMP-2 armoured personnel carriers and Casspir mine-protected vehicles, which can deflect or withstand bullets, rockets or grenades fired by terrorists. However, they do question the choice of the National Security Guard to be a part of these operations in the first place since more than 50,000 soldiers of the Army were available in Pathankot, which houses massive Army facilities, the equivalent of the strength of two Divisions. According to General Malik, "It was the wrong decision to send the NSG. The operation should have been conducted by the Army forces right next door at the Division who knew the ground [condition] very well. It would have speeded up the process."

pathankot-attack_650x400_61451836116.jpg


What's more, the single Special Forces squad of the Indian Army, trained specifically to fight terrorists, and brought into the airbase from the Pathankot cantonment before the attack began never directly engaged the terrorists in the fire-fight and instead stood guard of the "strategic assets" at the base- fighters, helicopters, surface to air missiles or radar facilities.

A full battalion (approximately 800 soldiers) of the Army's prestigious 1 Para Special Forces battalion are based in Nahan less than 30 minutes' flying time from Pathankot and could have been deployed at short notice if required.

Experts also disagree with Defence Minister Manohar Parrikar who defended the use of the NSG today when he said, "There were civilians here. 3,000 civilians are staying in this campus so NSG is better trained." According to Lt General Shankar Prasad, the Army's former Director General (Infantry), "the Special Action Group (SAG) of the National Security Guard who were deployed in Pathankot are trained for aggressive intervention, hostage rescue and aircraft hijack scenarios. They are not meant to protect any asset, human or otherwise. Their role is to terminate a situation through direct intervention." According to the Lt General, the NSG could have been kept on standby for any eventuality, not given charge of an operation the likes of which are being waged by the Army in Kashmir on a constant basis for years.

As the operation in Pathankot winds down, the facts remain. Hundreds of soldiers may have prevented a bloodbath but how did six terrorists kill seven Indian soldiers and injure 20 after managing to infiltrate an airbase which was apparently fully ready to fight them?
source- Why Some Allege Pathankot 'Worst-Planned Op In 3 Decades'

As always!!!

Common sense!!!
4 Para (SF) and 9 Para (SF) are stationed in J&K, while another 1 Para (SF) is based in Himachal.
Let's not forget the fact that initially there were only 80 soldiers involved but by the end of the op, they needed 300 (or so I read in the newspapers).
And the final assault was made by army's infantry combat vehicles with 30mm cannons.
Yes it's time for introspection...and SOCOM may be.

But I'm sanguine we will learn from our mistakes, and that Pathankot is a lesson we wont forget so easily.

That's NDTV I wouldn't take whatever nonsense they spew seriously.

Did they proved Pakistan by any court ? How can you claim that first prove then post.
which post are you quoting? don't just copy paste two words.
 
. .
Gurdaspur SP's abduction story false? Was he honeytrapped by Pakistan's ISI?

448126-pathankot-sp.jpg

Zee Media Bureau

Pathankot: The role of the Punjab Police officer, who claimed he was abducted by the terrorists who attacked the Pathankot air base, has been under the scanner.



According to Firstpost, investigating agencies are claiming that Salwinder Singh may be working with Pakistan's ISI and militant organisation Jaish-e-Mohammad.




MUST READ
Terrorists had conducted mock drills at Pakistani air base before attacking Pathankot: Report
Superintendent of Police Salwinder Singh, his cook Madan Gopal and businessman friend Rajesh Verma, who were allegedly abducted by the terrorists in his vehicle, were being questioned by National Investigation Agency (NIA) officials at his official residence here on Tuesday evening.

The police superintendent had earlier claimed that he, along with Verma and the cook, were stopped and abducted by 4-5 heavily armed terrorists near Kolia village, 25 km from Pathankot, on the night of December 31. The attack at the Indian Air Force base took place at around 3.30 am on January 02. The police superintendent's seniors did not take his version seriously for many hours.




MUST READ
Pathankot attack: NIA grills Gurdaspur SP, says he may have leaked information to Pak terrorists
However, according to CNN-IBN, Singh may have been honey-trapped by the ISI.

The channel alleged that Singh's role in the Pathankot attack could be crucial, as he could have provided logistical support to the terrorists.




MUST READ
They slit my throat and left me bleeding, says Gurdaspur SP's friend
The counter offensive against the terrorists by security forces inside the Pathankot base saw six terrorists being killed. Security forces lost seven personnel.




MUST READ
Combing operations on at Pathankot air base





MUST READ
NIA begins probe into Pathankot terrorist attack

Gurdaspur SP's abduction story false? Was he honeytrapped by Pakistan's ISI? | Zee News
 
.
Bhai sahab, Operation over hogaya?

Gurdaspur SP's abduction story false? Was he honeytrapped by Pakistan's ISI?

448126-pathankot-sp.jpg

Zee Media Bureau

Pathankot: The role of the Punjab Police officer, who claimed he was abducted by the terrorists who attacked the Pathankot air base, has been under the scanner.



According to Firstpost, investigating agencies are claiming that Salwinder Singh may be working with Pakistan's ISI and militant organisation Jaish-e-Mohammad.




MUST READ
Terrorists had conducted mock drills at Pakistani air base before attacking Pathankot: Report
Superintendent of Police Salwinder Singh, his cook Madan Gopal and businessman friend Rajesh Verma, who were allegedly abducted by the terrorists in his vehicle, were being questioned by National Investigation Agency (NIA) officials at his official residence here on Tuesday evening.

The police superintendent had earlier claimed that he, along with Verma and the cook, were stopped and abducted by 4-5 heavily armed terrorists near Kolia village, 25 km from Pathankot, on the night of December 31. The attack at the Indian Air Force base took place at around 3.30 am on January 02. The police superintendent's seniors did not take his version seriously for many hours.




MUST READ
Pathankot attack: NIA grills Gurdaspur SP, says he may have leaked information to Pak terrorists
However, according to CNN-IBN, Singh may have been honey-trapped by the ISI.

The channel alleged that Singh's role in the Pathankot attack could be crucial, as he could have provided logistical support to the terrorists.




MUST READ
They slit my throat and left me bleeding, says Gurdaspur SP's friend
The counter offensive against the terrorists by security forces inside the Pathankot base saw six terrorists being killed. Security forces lost seven personnel.




MUST READ
Combing operations on at Pathankot air base





MUST READ
NIA begins probe into Pathankot terrorist attack

Gurdaspur SP's abduction story false? Was he honeytrapped by Pakistan's ISI? | Zee News

Hahahahahahahahahahaha, they didn't take Singh sahib seriously because he has a shady past and has been accused of sexual harassment........lmao.........one thing leads to another.

Truly Incredible India.
 
.
That's what we said after the parliament attack and the Mumbai pogrom. No, we haven't learnt any lessons. Lack of coordination between different agencies has been our bane since the time of Maharana Pratap!!
Parliament attack -2001
Mumbai attack- 2008
Pathankot- 2015
7 years gap, which is fine. Our agencies are doing a decent job at thwarting such attacks. But yes, we need to improve our coordination skills and for once AIR FORCE and ARMY must learn to cooperate.

That's NDTV I wouldn't take whatever nonsense they spew seriously
Hmmmm?
Which part of my post is from NDTV?

Bhai sahab, Operation over hogaya?



Hahahahahahahahahahaha, they didn't take Singh sahib seriously because he has a shady past and has been accused of sexual harassment........lmao.........one thing leads to another.

Truly Incredible India.
I am not sure such a post on a Pakistani operation would be encouraged by you and your countrymen.
 
. . . .
This what I was trying to tell you guys yeatsrday..

@Levina
@Abingdonboy
This is the perspective of a former ARMY general (and is being echoed by army men all over the media) but I simply don't buy into it. The stipulation that the NSG were being used for asset protection in this case is misleading- they were dployed to protect the assets but they did so by implicit direct action which is exactly what they are trained for- they weren't stood aorund pulling guard duty. I've outlined why the NSG were the appropriate force to use in this situation in previous posts.

So NSG aren't fit for this operation but should be kept on standby nonetheless? This is simply a partiasian view of the affair that holds little water.
 
.
Parliament attack -2001
Mumbai attack- 2008
Pathankot- 2015
7 years gap, which is fine. Our agencies are doing a decent job at thwarting such attacks. But yes, we need to improve our coordination skills and for once AIR FORCE and ARMY must learn to cooperate.
I think list is incomplete as per wikipedia (i am not cheering neither happy just want to correct the facts)
List of terrorist incidents in India
December 13, 2001 2001 Indian Parliament attack in New Delhi Delhi 7 verdict given
May 13, 2002 2002 Jaunpur train crash[7] N/A 12 80
December 6, 2002 2002 Mumbai bus bombing[8] Mumbai 2 14
December 21, 2002 Kurnool train crash Andhra Pradesh 20 80
September 10, 2002 Rafiganj train disaster Bihar 130 300
September 24, 2002 Terrorists attack the Akshardham temple in Gujarat Gujarat 31
January 27, 2003 2003 Mumbai bombing[9] Mumbai 1
March 13, 2003 2003 Mumbai train bombing[10] Mumbai 11
July 28, 2003 2003 Mumbai bus bombing [11] Mumbai 4 32
August 25, 2003 25 August 2003 Mumbai bombings Mumbai 52
August 15, 2004 2004 Dhemaji school bombing Assam 18 40
July 28, 2005 2005 Jaunpur train bombing[12] N/A 13 50
October 29, 2005 29 October 2005 Delhi bombings: Three powerful serial blasts in New Delhi at different places [13]
Delhi

70 250
March 7, 2006 2006 Varanasi bombings: Three synchronized terrorist attacks in Varanasi in Shri Sankatmochan Mandir and Varanasi Cantonment Railway Station[14]
Varanasi

21
July 11, 2006 2006 Mumbai train bombings: Series of 7 train bombing during the evening rush hour in Mumbai Mumbai 209 500
September 8, 2006 2006 Malegaon bombings: Series of bomb blasts in the vicinity of a mosque in Malegaon, Maharashtra Maharashtra 37 125
February 18, 2007 2007 Samjhauta Express bombings Haryana 68
May 18, 2007 Mecca Masjid bombing: At least 13 people were killed, including 4 killed by the Indian police in the rioting that followed, in the bombing at Mecca Masjid, Hyderabadthat took place during the Friday prayers Hyderabad 13
August 25, 2007 25 August 2007 Hyderabad bombings - Two blasts in Hyderabad's Lumbini park and Gokul Chat. Hyderabad 42
October 11, 2007 One blast at a shrine of a Sufi Muslim saint in the town of Ajmer[15] Rajasthan 3
October 14, 2007 One blast in a movie theater in the town of Ludhianaon the Muslim holy day of Eid ul-Fitr[15] Ludhiana 6
November 24, 2007 A series of near-simultaneous explosions at courthouse complexes in the cities of Lucknow,Varanasi, and Faizabad[15] Uttar Pradesh 16 70
January 1, 2008 Terror attack on CRPF camp in Rampur, Uttar Pradeshby Lashkar-e-Taiba,[16] Uttar Pradesh 8 5
May 13, 2008 Jaipur bombings: 9 bomb blasts along 6 areas inJaipur Jaipur 63 200
July 25, 2008 2008 Bangalore serial blasts: 8 low intensity bomb blasts in Bangalore Bangalore 2 20 arrests made
July 26, 2008 2008 Ahmedabad blasts: 17 serial bomb blasts inAhmedabad Gujarat 29 110 arrests made
September 13, 2008 13 September 2008 Delhi bombings: 5 bomb blasts inDelhi markets Delhi 33 130
September 27, 2008 27 September 2008 Delhi blast: Bombings at Mehrauli area, 2 bomb blasts in Delhi flower market Delhi 3 21
September 29, 2008 29 September 2008 western India bombings: 10 killed and 80 injured in bombings in Maharashtra (including Malegaon) and Gujarat bomb blasts Maharashtra 10 80
October 1, 2008 2008 Agartala bombings Agartala 4 100
October 21, 2008 2008 Imphal bombing Imphal 17 40
October 30, 2008 2008 Assam bombings Assam 77 300
November 26, 2008 2008 Mumbai attacks[17][18] Mumbai 171 239 verdict given
January 1, 2009 2009 Guwahati bombings[19] Assam 6 67
April 6, 2009 2009 Assam bombings[20] Assam 7 62
February 13, 2010 2010 Pune bombing[21] Pune 17 60
December 7, 2010 2010 Varanasi bombing[22] Varanasi 1 20
July 13, 2011 2011 Mumbai bombings Mumbai 26 130
September 7, 2011 2011 Delhi bombing[23] Delhi 19 76
February 13, 2012 2012 attacks on Israeli diplomats Delhi 0 4
August 1, 2012 2012 Pune bombings Pune 0 1
February 21, 2013 2013 Hyderabad blasts Hyderabad 16 119
March 13, 2013 March 2013 Srinagar attack Jammu and Kashmir 7 10
17 April 2013 2013 Bangalore blast Bengaluru 0 16
25 May 2013 2013 Naxal attack in Darbha valley Chhattisgarh 28 32
24 June 2013 June 2013 Srinagar attack Jammu and Kashmir 8 19
7 July 2013 July 2013 Maoist attack in Dumka Chhattisgarh 5
7 July 2013 Bodh Gaya bombings Bihar 0 5
27 October 2013 2013 Patna bombings Bihar 5 66
25 April 2014 Blast in Jharkhand[24] Jharkhand 8 4-5
28 April 2014 Blast in Budgam District[25] Jammu and Kashmir 0 18
1 May 2014 2014 Chennai train bombing Tamil Nadu 1 14
12 May 2014 Maoist blast in Gadchiroli District[26] Jharkhand 7 2
28 December 2014 Bomb blast at Church Street, Bangalore[27] Bengaluru 1 5
20 March 2015 2015 Jammu attack[28] Jammu and Kashmir 6 10
27 July 2015 2015 Gurdaspur attack in Dina Nagar, Gurdaspur district Punjab 10 15
02 January 2016 2016 Pathankot attack in Pathankot IAF base,Pathankot Punjab 7
 
.
Gurdaspur SP's abduction story false? Was he honeytrapped by Pakistan's ISI?

448126-pathankot-sp.jpg

Zee Media Bureau

Pathankot: The role of the Punjab Police officer, who claimed he was abducted by the terrorists who attacked the Pathankot air base, has been under the scanner.



According to Firstpost, investigating agencies are claiming that Salwinder Singh may be working with Pakistan's ISI and militant organisation Jaish-e-Mohammad.




MUST READ
Terrorists had conducted mock drills at Pakistani air base before attacking Pathankot: Report
Superintendent of Police Salwinder Singh, his cook Madan Gopal and businessman friend Rajesh Verma, who were allegedly abducted by the terrorists in his vehicle, were being questioned by National Investigation Agency (NIA) officials at his official residence here on Tuesday evening.

The police superintendent had earlier claimed that he, along with Verma and the cook, were stopped and abducted by 4-5 heavily armed terrorists near Kolia village, 25 km from Pathankot, on the night of December 31. The attack at the Indian Air Force base took place at around 3.30 am on January 02. The police superintendent's seniors did not take his version seriously for many hours.




MUST READ
Pathankot attack: NIA grills Gurdaspur SP, says he may have leaked information to Pak terrorists
However, according to CNN-IBN, Singh may have been honey-trapped by the ISI.

The channel alleged that Singh's role in the Pathankot attack could be crucial, as he could have provided logistical support to the terrorists.




MUST READ
They slit my throat and left me bleeding, says Gurdaspur SP's friend
The counter offensive against the terrorists by security forces inside the Pathankot base saw six terrorists being killed. Security forces lost seven personnel.




MUST READ
Combing operations on at Pathankot air base





MUST READ
NIA begins probe into Pathankot terrorist attack

Gurdaspur SP's abduction story false? Was he honeytrapped by Pakistan's ISI? | Zee News

On serious note, that guy was abducted so that could be the first point of start of attack. Why aren't the officials taking him serious rather investigated not even thoroughly and seriously. Looks like divided in two groups, the one is insisting to prove it against Pakistan yet the other one with true story at first instance, is not heard at all which could lead to some kind of inside job thing. However, everyone is looking at the scene as per self prospective yet the truth to be revealed but it shouldn't be like what pleases them. Hope for the exact image be drawn.
 
.
There were Trainee Pilots of 6 Countries, 2000 ~ families plus Billions of Dollar worth Hardware,not a single Air craft has been destroyed by Jihadis.

Zero civilian casualty.
 
.
The Union Minister for Defence, Shri Manohar Parrikar along with the Chief of the Air Staff, Air Chief Marshal Arup Raha and the Chief of Army Staff, General Dalbir Singh offering condolences to the family members of Late Lance Naik Kulwant Singh, at Chak Sarif village of Gurdaspur on January 05, 2016.
s2016010675263.jpg


The Union Minister for Defence, Shri Manohar Parrikar along with the Chief of the Air Staff, Air Chief Marshal Arup Raha and the Chief of Army Staff, General Dalbir Singh offering condolences to the family members of Late Subedar (Hony Capt.) Fateh Singh, DSC, at Chanda Gujran village of Gurdaspur on January 05, 2016.
s2016010675264.jpg


The Union Minister for Defence, Shri Manohar Parrikar addressing a press conference, at Pathankot airbase, Punjab on January 05, 2016. The Chief of the Air Staff, Air Chief Marshal Arup Raha and the Chief of Army Staff, General Dalbir Singh are also seen.
s2016010675265.jpg


sand artist Sudarsan Pattnaik creates a sand art to pay tribute to the martyrs of Pathankot attack at Puri beach of Odisha.
448073-dpz6jnab01.jpg
 
.
At least two top army leaders who have spoken to me but cannot be named for obvious reasons believe the overall command of the operation should always have wrested with the Army since there has never been a case where command of an active operation has been transferred from the Army to the National Security Guard, an elite police force under the Home Ministry. In this case, the NSG was given the lead role after two columns (60 men) of the Army had already been deployed in Pathankot in anticipation of an impending attack on the airbase. General VP Malik, the former Army Chief says, "Command of an operation is transferred to the Army once they are called for an anti-terrorism operation and, in this case, defence of an airfield operation."
I think these "top" army leaders need to be reminded that they are not the decsion makers, why are they demanding control of these things?

Next they will be saying the Army should have been deployed in 26/11. The NSG is the GoI of India's sole civlian counter terror unit, is it really a surprise that they were used for this mission?

This is petty rivalry beyond beleif.


The most absurd part is that those SAG operators are all army men! The Army has an issue with its own men conducting operations simply because they are wearing a different uniform to theirs- can you beleive this? These Generals need to get put in their place, they don't have any right to dictate the terms of their use.

A full battalion (approximately 800 soldiers) of the Army's prestigious 1 Para Special Forces battalion are based in Nahan less than 30 minutes' flying time from Pathankot and could have been deployed at short notice if required.
So? The NSG was already on the ground when the attack began, there was no delay in deploying them. What an entirely moot point intended to muddy the waters even more.


The norm in all mature democracies is for Counter Terrror missions to be conducted within the country by specialised police units.

@PARIKRAMA
 
.
This is the perspective of a former ARMY general (and is being echoed by army men all over the media) but I simply don't buy into it. The stipulation that the NSG were being used for asset protection in this case is misleading- they were dployed to protect the assets but they did so by implicit direct action which is exactly what they are trained for- they weren't stood aorund pulling guard duty. I've outlined why the NSG were the appropriate force to use in this situation in previous posts.

So NSG aren't fit for this operation but should be kept on standby nonetheless? This is simply a partiasian view of the affair that holds little water.

You outlined it perfectly yesterday bro, while giving example of Mumbai, which was a perfect hostage rescue scenario. And precizely why NSG was so successfull. And in this case NSG did achive what its meant to achive, however the bigger question is "operational" than being outcomes. Where I do feel that there was a gap or some sort of misplanning.

NSG, Army or GAruds, we have no doubts that they are a perfect fighting force and they will achive the objective. But my concern is the bold part above.
 
.
Status
Not open for further replies.

Pakistan Affairs Latest Posts

Country Latest Posts

Back
Top Bottom