Indian Agni BM Technology origin

[Myth_buster_1]

This article is just BS! India had supercomputer since 1991

oh i am glad you have the capability to use wikipedia by yourself.
So btw why is the article just "BS"? Is it because it shatters your illusions of Indian missile programs being 100% indigenous or the fact that Indian Institute of Science in Bangalore a key missile research site was supplied with US supercomputer in 1996? Living in denial seems to be the work of most of you here.

 

[lhuang]

^ India had an indigenous supercomputer that could perform a trillion processes per second, yet they had to import one that could do only 5.8 billion?

 

[Myth_buster_1]

ahh haaa. So accepting defeat is beyond your ego and like i said before, now you are just generating long lengthy posts in different words that were already debunked. This will not help you win any arguments other then expose yourself even further about the state of denial you are in.
I have said this to rest of Indian members here who are coming up with the same false statements that were already debunked and i wont repeat the effort to reply them again and same applies for you who is just in state of denial and dodging the reality here.

Except that SLV-3 didn’t have any original platform, the likes of F-7. SLV-3 itself was the original platform on which ASLV, PSLV and later GSLV were based. Your claim that Scout is to SLV-3 what F-7 is to F-7E is a non starter. However if you had claimed that Scout is to SLV-3 what MiG-21F is to F-7 then you would have probably got somewhere.

Wrong. SLV-3 is based on proven Scout platform and India was transferred with all the necessary designs from US for Indian version of Scout. Without American Scout Program their wouldn't be any SLV-3 and without Mig-21F the J-7E wont exist either.

And you are obfuscating, now that your analogy has fallen flat. I compared the technical growth path not the technical ‘advantage’. What your blinkers are not letting you see is that SLV-3 _is_ the original development, as in 1st in a series of development, on which the later models of SLVs were designed. Nothing ever preceded SLV-3. Everything succeeded it. In a sense, SLV-3 _is_ the equivalent of MiG-21F or F-16 Block 1, not F-7E, which was itself an evolved product, like PSLV. Even MiG-21Fs and Block 1, F-16s came into existence riding on a huge knowledge base of designing and building fighter jets.

Wrong. Ironically its you who is obfuscating, SLV-3 is not a original Indian "indigenous" development and the trait that you have displayed proves it all. The funny thing is India never designed any rockets on its own before and other then foreigner technologies culled together and now the indians are in illusion of "indigenous" this and that.

Just because something is based on some design concept it doesn’t make it a ‘copy’. The concept of sedan originated at some point, in some place. That doesn’t mean all sedans are copies.

But I thought SLV-3 was a NEW totally indian indigenous design and not based on anything?

Anyway, it is this constant quantification of degree of indigenous contribution to SLV-3 that I am constantly questioning. How did you know that the modification was ‘little’ as opposed to ‘massive’? For example, you claim that the internal systems are _based_ on European tech. That itself appears to be a ‘massive’ departure from design, unless of course the same European tech was used for Scout. Why don’t you share that information with us and we can all call it a day.

I am repeating the same thing for you for the 3rd time.
First of all I am not calming anything other then what is already proven from the researched data provided by one of the most trust worthy source on WMD, Nuclear and Missile proliferation organization that provides their own research to governments.
The thing is, for developed world such as Germany France who have their own space agency with indigenous technology is not a problem to provide technical solutions to developing world according to their requirements.

You are correct though. SLV-3 is not a result of ‘indigenous’ R & D. The Indian scientists just bought foreign tech, threw them into a magic hat, waved a magic wand, sprinkled some magical stardust, murmured ‘Abracadabra’ and voila, out came the launch vehicle, ready to be fired.

In your sarcasm you have actually spoken up the truth.
SLV-3 based on proven Scout program and designs given to india for their version of Scout by Americans and Rocket propulsion, guidance, internal electronic technology culled in India. And not to forget the infrastructure for SLV-3 that was provided by foreigners.

First, a few corrections. Scout that India studied was not a ‘missile program’. It was a satellite launch program. Second, no Indian missile is a ‘copy’ of any foreign missile or satellite launch program. Unlike Pakistan.

Basically the brain of SLV and Agni are "German" R&D and proliferated by India.
LINK

WRONG. Agni uses first stage of SLV-3 which is a Space program with foreigner technologies thus proliferated Space technology towards their Missile program.
According to 1995 Pentagon sources...
(India is still weak in many vital rocket technologies, and needs help in composites, electronics, computers, sensors, navigation, guidance, control and propulsion, according to a Pentagon study which ranks countries' military capabilities. To bolster its efforts in these areas, India is looking for imports.)

When you make a pompous claim such as that, it then becomes your responsibility to prove the degree of foreign involvement in development of those tech, and also that the Indian scientists wouldn’t have been able to make such engines and components without such degree of foreign involvement.

No its not my responsibility to spoon feed you.

Again, it is now your responsibility to prove that the design of SLV-3 is so heavily borrowed from Scout, that had there been no Scout there wouldn’t have been any SLV-3. I have been asking you to provide such information for the last few days. Can you please share just how much of the design of SLV-3 was borrowed, or to use you favorite word, ‘copied’ from Scout. We all eagerly await your technical evaluation and revelation.

Again its not my responsibility. The information that i provided is here for you to read.

I am sure that you have refuted me a thousand times, in your imagination. That is not a problem. The problem is your evasion of a key question. I will ask it once again.
Other than some macro level similarities (the looks, the number of stages, the type of fuel etc.), what is similar between Scout A (that’s the model you wanted to compare to) and SLV-3?

Debunked and answered 1000s of time.

 

[shekhar]

Answer to #3.
Pakistan does not have enough cash with them like india to penetrate deep in western market for almost every other solutions.

have you ever tried to find the answer to ur question why pak doesnt have that money ?
i know you will point to indian economy
before that please watch this link by westerns experts
China And India Are Rising Economic Powers, Say Several Economists | News Analysis | English
now we didnt get american support like you got in 80s as per you ppl pak is at the so caled CENTRE of asia and not to forget islamic leader with mighty bomb and also according to zaid hamid only country in wolrd to shoot down israel fighter plene
if you have got so much then why you dont have money
you started journey in 1948 japan started journey in 1948 after getting hit by nuke (2 nukes) pak and japan have same population and i am sure they don't have as much resource as you have but still you say you don't have money ?
i accept india is also not very good but please compare indian economy development and pak economy why the difference is so big
stop being anti indian be pakistani if you pocket is heavy world will greet you but if you pocket is empty then you know the Darwin survival of the fittest the best will come out at the top (it doest mean that one who is no best will die) but best will be winner for sure
in the current scenario india has the huge lead pak has to do alot to cover
now coming to Indian Agni BM Technology origin
do you know first advanced jet engine to russia was given by british after WW2 which russia modified for its own use and then they developed derivatives for different purpose (video is on you tube"race for jet engine")
american stealth bomber and missile technology was actually german whose document USA recovered during WW2 which they again modified redesigned for there own use
yes indian got help from russia but thy did there own research and modified the technology for there own requirement
thats the reason these country had to ace failures during tests because they were doing research and thats the reason their technology is so diverse because they understand the basic
now come to case of PAK
i am sure that ppl in pak are not dull but average IQ is as good as anywhere in world but why PAK is only country in world who never failed in missile test there could be two reason ppl in pak are extremely intelligent (i hope you wont agree with this or they test ready made missiles to counter indian threat "or military is doing so to satisfy pak ppl dream" )
now the second question why pak is only country in world who is so advanced in missile technology only in one direction i mean look at india we are making NAG (accepted under testing) akash (tested and ordered 1000 units) BMD 3 successful test brahmos (best in its class)
why pak has only BM and CM
you claim that you can develop 1500 km range bm but you purchase anti aircraft missile from italy yes we also purchase from israel but we make too (akash)
and any person with even small thinking capability will not buy the fact that you want to develop only one kind of missile not other
you are good in only one kind of missile because got only one kind of missle from whoever sold you pak doesnt have the technological base to support any missile development (developing a missile is not what you do "painting the missile with green color")

 

[Myth_buster_1]

@ shekhar;806593

Do you even know what the topic is about? This is not Bharat-raksaw where you can talk about any random stuff and explode your brains out convincing fellow deluded country men that every Indian project is "Indigenous" to satisfy ego.
At first place I dont really bother replying to trollers but I just wanted to let you know that you have only proved yourself to be a laughing stock. Your post is irrelevant to the topic.
Now go somewhere else in Indian low quality forums and satisfy your own ego with indigenous this and that.
next time you post something as irrelevant and nonsense as this I will simply leave you to exposing what indian mentality is all about.
Acceptance of realty is beyond your Indian capacity, so keep deluding yourself.

 

[shekhar]

@ shekhar;806593

Do you even know what the topic is about? This is not Bharat-raksaw where you can talk about any random stuff and explode your brains out convincing fellow deluded country men that every Indian project is "Indigenous" to satisfy ego.
At first place I dont really bother replying to trollers but I just wanted to let you know that you have only proved yourself to be a laughing stock. Your post is irrelevant to the topic.
Now go somewhere else in Indian low quality forums and satisfy your own ego with indigenous this and that.
next time you post something as irrelevant and nonsense as this I will simply leave you to exposing what indian mentality is all about.
Acceptance of realty is beyond your Indian capacity, so keep deluding yourself.

read my post twice and prove that its not relevant

 

[toxic_pus]

ahh haaa. So accepting defeat is beyond your ego and like i said before, now you are just generating long lengthy posts in different words that were already debunked. This will not help you win any arguments other then expose yourself even further about the state of denial you are in.
I have said this to rest of Indian members here who are coming up with the same false statements that were already debunked and i wont repeat the effort to reply them again and same applies for you who is just in state of denial and dodging the reality here.


Wrong. SLV-3 is based on proven Scout platform and India was transferred with all the necessary designs from US for Indian version of Scout. Without American Scout Program their wouldn't be any SLV-3 and without Mig-21F the J-7E wont exist either.

Wrong. Ironically its you who is obfuscating, SLV-3 is not a original Indian "indigenous" development and the trait that you have displayed proves it all. The funny thing is India never designed any rockets on its own before and other then foreigner technologies culled together and now the indians are in illusion of "indigenous" this and that.
But I thought SLV-3 was a NEW totally indian indigenous design and not based on anything?

I am repeating the same thing for you for the 3rd time.
First of all I am not calming anything other then what is already proven from the researched data provided by one of the most trust worthy source on WMD, Nuclear and Missile proliferation organization that provides their own research to governments.
The thing is, for developed world such as Germany France who have their own space agency with indigenous technology is not a problem to provide technical solutions to developing world according to their requirements.
In your sarcasm you have actually spoken up the truth.
SLV-3 based on proven Scout program and designs given to india for their version of Scout by Americans and Rocket propulsion, guidance, internal electronic technology culled in India. And not to forget the infrastructure for SLV-3 that was provided by foreigners.

Basically the brain of SLV and Agni are "German" R&D and proliferated by India.
LINK
http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2786/4534304949_ea3841ecaf_o.jpg
http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4009/4534304331_964495db7a_o.jpg
WRONG. Agni uses first stage of SLV-3 which is a Space program with foreigner technologies thus proliferated Space technology towards their Missile program.
According to 1995 Pentagon sources...
(India is still weak in many vital rocket technologies, and needs help in composites, electronics, computers, sensors, navigation, guidance, control and propulsion, according to a Pentagon study which ranks countries' military capabilities. To bolster its efforts in these areas, India is looking for imports.)
No its not my responsibility to spoon feed you.

Again its not my responsibility. The information that i provided is here for you to read.

Debunked and answered 1000s of time.

So to summarize your responses:

1. You have failed to provide any explanation as to why only Scout A is to be compared to SLV-3. So far you have only ducked this question and I am pretty sure you will continue to do so.

2. You have failed to provide any evidence that Scout ‘design’ or ‘technology’ was transferred to India. The Pentagon report categorically states that ‘transfer of technology’ is a matter of State and as such NASA couldn’t possibly transfer ‘technology’. Accordingly NASA transferred unclassified ‘technological reports’, and nowhere does the report state that there was transfer of ‘design’ or ‘technology’.

3. You have failed to provide any convincing _data_ showing similarity between Scout A (or any other versions of Scout) and SLV-3 and in a sense, how much of Scout design was ‘copied’ that would warrant SLV-3 to be categorized as ‘carbon copy’. On the other hand you have been shown _data_ that proves that externally, at least, SLV-3 differed in many respects from all versions of Scout.

4. You have failed to provide any convincing argument as to why even if SLV-3 is different externally (data regarding this has already been provided) as well as internally (it is your claim that internal systems are all of European origin), it is still a ‘copy’ of Scout.

If your idea of debunking is typing ‘wrong’ in bold for more than once and recycling the same article repeatedly, then yes you have debunked me. However till you clarify the above 4 points, your claim remains what it is – just another claim.

And one more thing. If you claim something, it is your responsibility to substantiate it. Not doing so can mean either you have no clue what you are talking about or you have your tail between your legs. In your case it is probably both.

 

[RiazHaq]

India's bid to launch an advanced communications satellite into orbit for the first time by using a cryogenic engine has failed, scientists say.

The rocket took off as planned but the phase powered by the new engine failed to perform and deviated from its path.

Cryogenic engines are rocket motors designed for fuels that have to be held at very low temperatures to be liquid. They would otherwise be gas.

Officials say that only five countries in the world have this technology.

Indian Space Research Organisation (Isro) Chairman K Radhakrishnan said that an investigation would now be held to find out what exactly went wrong.

Scientists say the mission failed because control of the two engines controlling the satellite was lost, resulting in loss of altitude and velocity.

Journalists at the scene of the launch said that scientists in the mission control area at Sriharikota in eastern India initially clapped and rejoiced after what appeared to be a successful launch - but their disappointment was apparent as the rocket deviated from its course.

India began developing cryogenic technology after Russia reneged on a deal to supply cryogenic engines in 1993 - following pressure from the United States, which believed India was using the technology to power missiles.

India hopes to emerge as a global player in the multi-billion dollar satellite launch market.


BBC News - India cryogenic satellite space launch fails

http://www.riazhaq.com/2009/09/indias-lunar-honeymoon-over.html

 

[Myth_buster_1]

And one more thing. If you claim something, it is your responsibility to substantiate it. Not doing so can mean either you have no clue what you are talking about or you have your tail between your legs. In your case it is probably both.

So basically yet again you did not end amusing us with your self portraying remarks. And Like i have said before. I dont reply to trollers 3 times who's posts have already debunked by most credible source in this subject and never the less I can give you the credit for being a sophisticated troller. And then you moan about being a subject to "pathological" deluded and liar when you have blinded yourself to the reality.

 

[toxic_pus]

So basically yet again you did not end amusing us with your self portraying remarks. And Like i have said before. I dont reply to trollers 3 times who's posts have already debunked by most credible source in this subject and never the less I can give you the credit for being a sophisticated troller. And then you moan about being a subject to "pathological" deluded and liar when you have blinded yourself to the reality.

My favourite...

 

[Myth_buster_1]

My favourite...

Nice picture man. But I did not ask for your pic.

 

[duhastmish]

GUYS ! most indian posters are gettign personal here ,

growler - just put a bloody point across , and you can all answer him in civilized manner or just bloody ignore - dont start meaning less b.s

------------- this just shows frustration ------ and many peopel are stuck on proving that all indian programme are 100% indigeniuos , which is just not possible even american programme are not 100% indigenious.--------------

 

[Myth_buster_1]

GUYS ! most indian posters are gettign personal here ,

growler - just put a bloody point across , and you can all answer him in civilized manner or just bloody ignore - dont start meaning less b.s

------------- this just shows frustration ------ and many peopel are stuck on proving that all indian programme are 100% indigeniuos , which is just not possible even american programme are not 100% indigenious.--------------

OH I C.

I have already answered them in a appropriate manner with credible sources.

 

[asq]

Read most of the posts and felt great that Growler single handedly answered all the pointed questions thrown at him by many Indians.

Indians in my openion are always patronising.

patronising means:-
characteristic of those who treat others with condescension

 

[ravan]

@ growl growl
ur failure to justify ur baseles accusations proves ur brain's incapacity. super sakti, huh! tryin to be smart are we... go learn wat propulsion exactly is? 1st stage is a copy it seems,... n ur tellin me ur so called source, whose content guarantee u give with ur life, got access to the missile's propulsion design...
i mean all missile builders across the globe must be sharin their propulsion systems with wisconsin so that they can analyze and tell... by god! n ur talkin bout my brain capacity...