India withdraws 15,000 troops from Kashmir as a peace gesture

[EjazR]

The move is aimed only towards the people of J&K who are part of India as much as anyone else. This si a good move because the Army should not be used for regular policing as that is not their job.

Until Kashmir centric groups like the UJC are dismantled completely,or atleast the 26/11 perpetrators are tried and convicted, I don't expect GoI to discuss much on the J&K issue with Pakistan, althought there might be some disucssions with PM of Pakistani Kashmir.

 

[rajeev]

The move is aimed only towards the people of J&K who are part of India as much as anyone else. This si a good move because the Army should not be used for regular policing as that is not their job.

Until Kashmir centric groups like the UJC are dismantled completely,or atleast the 26/11 perpetrators are tried and convicted, I don't expect GoI to discuss much on the J&K issue with Pakistan, althought there might be some disucssions with PM of Pakistani Kashmir.

I agree with most of your comments, except the "discussion with PM of Pakistan Kashmir". As far I know, Pakistan Kashmir minister is nominated by GoP and not voted by the people.

 

[deckingraj]

althought there might be some disucssions with PM of Pakistani Kashmir.

Please throw some more light on this...I might have missed the news..is this something being contemplated or you making a guess work?? Anyways nothing wrong in talking if it can bring some results..

 

[Gideon]

I still dont really understand (and I think a LOT of people in the West dont really understand) why India or Pakistan want Kashmir so badly. Its not like you dont have enough land or Kashmir holds some special strategic or economic advantage. Or does it ??

 

[rajeev]

I still dont really understand (and I think a LOT of people in the West dont really understand) why India or Pakistan want Kashmir so badly. Its not like you dont have enough land or Kashmir holds some special strategic or economic advantage. Or does it ??

Lets say for example, Mexico claims "New Mexico" state - a small state with little people, small GDP and all desert. Is US going to give it away because it is not worth holding onto?

 

[deckingraj]

I still dont really understand (and I think a LOT of people in the West dont really understand) why India or Pakistan want Kashmir so badly. Its not like you dont have enough land or Kashmir holds some special strategic or economic advantage. Or does it ??

Great question...but thats what is called National Pride...Unfortunately kashmir is nothing but a pride symbol for both India and Pakistan..thans to our 62 years of continued animosity...and now even if they want they cannot budge because it will be seen as a defeat...I mean what else you think that we have turned an unhabitable glacier(Siachen) into a battlefield where you can kill you enemy without firing a single bullet..Just pray to god for a storm and your job is done..

Funny we are ready to nuke each other over a piece of land that could have been solved decades ago hadn't we made it a status symbol of belittling other

 

[third eye]

I still dont really understand (and I think a LOT of people in the West dont really understand) why India or Pakistan want Kashmir so badly. Its not like you dont have enough land or Kashmir holds some special strategic or economic advantage. Or does it ??

Some reasons ..

For Pk :

1 . Virtually every drop of water it gets is from / thru J&K.
2. Reason for PA to remain in power.
3. Strategic link to China / Tibet.
4. Greater land mass & dominance over N India.


For India :

1. Its India.
2. Counter to all those listed above.

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

I still dont really understand (and I think a LOT of people in the West dont really understand) why India or Pakistan want Kashmir so badly. Its not like you dont have enough land or Kashmir holds some special strategic or economic advantage. Or does it ??

Disputed territory - the UNSC and international community recognize its as disputed territory whose resolution should be through a fair and impartial plebiscite held under the UN. The Indian government and Indian leadership for almost a decade also agreed and committed to those resolutions, yet refused to implement them or agree with various proposals by UN appointed commissions and rapporteurs that suggested a fair and impartial withdrawal and de-militarization of the disputed territory that would not allow any one side to occupy the territory controlled by the other.

The dispute could have been resolved years ago had India recognized that right of the people to decide.

All the excuses over 'Pakistan not implementing UN conditions' (a flawed excuse to begin with as shown in the UNSC resolutions thread) are just excuses by India to perpetuate its occupation of the territory and not implement the UNSC resolutions and allow the people of Kashmir to choose between India and Pakistan in a plebiscite.

 

[deckingraj]

For Pk :

1 . Virtually every drop of water it gets is from / thru J&K.
2. Reason for PA to remain in power.
3. Strategic link to China / Tibet.
4. Greater land mass & dominance over N India.


For India :

1. Its India.
2. Counter to all those listed above.

I disagree with few of your reasons sir for primarily two reason....

a) That's not why the issue started...it had a different story

b) All the reasons that you listed can be debated in present context but are these big enough that cannot be solved amicably???


I hope you can correct me..I am sharing my view point...

1 . Virtually every drop of water it gets is from / thru J&K.

There have been treaties on how water should be divided...One cannot just ignore them...Also in 62 years of animosity we did not stopped their water why would we if there is peace...

2. Reason for PA to remain in power.

Not sure if its only Kashmir that will keep the army in power...

3. Strategic link to China / Tibet.

Not required if there is peace on the border...

4. Greater land mass & dominance over N India.

i agree with greater land mass but how come Kashmir will give dominance over North India??


P.S : I have no intention to challenge you but curious to share my points and seek your..

 

[deckingraj]

@Agnostic Muslim

All the excuses over 'Pakistan not implementing UN conditions' (a flawed excuse to begin with as shown in the UNSC resolutions thread) are just excuses by India to perpetuate its occupation of the territory and not implement the UNSC resolutions and allow the people of Kashmir to choose between India and Pakistan in a plebiscite.

I asked this question to you in a separate thread as well...let me reword it...lets say for the sake of argument what you are saying is truth..Now indian stand is no plebiscite...Now what is your proposed solution...Shall we go for war??? I have read your posts before so i am sure you reply would be "No"..so what is the resolution...Why pakistan is not pressurizing world community to force india for a plebiscite and if she can't then lets dump this demand of plebisicte forever...and c it there is another way of resolving this amicably...

b/w why we loose the bigger picture of overall prosperity over this plebiscite vs no plebiscite debate...I know you are an informed person so you must be aware of the back channel success that we had during musharraf period..i dont think there was mention of plebisicte in it...to me status quo with more autonomy to kashmir is the best possible solution...what say??

 

[Brisingr]

Pakistan controls the northwest portion (Northern Areas and Azad Kashmir), India controls the central and southern portion (Jammu and Kashmir) and Ladakh,
and China controls the northeastern portion (Aksai Chin and the Trans-Karakoram Tract).

India controls 141,338 km2 (54,571 sq mi),
Pakistan 85,846 km2 (33,145 sq mi)
China, the remaining 37,555 km2 (14,500 sq mi).
These guys PAK and China talk as if they are much bothered about te J&K ppl. If they are so much concerned why to occupy J&K ppl's land.Let them first surrender their land to India and J&K ppl then we will talk about the prevailing issues..BTW i dont understand why Indians dont make much of Fuzz about these occupied land mass just like they do for kashmir.
Ok for the sake of argument let us say India is accepting a deal for a separate country for the Kashmiri people would china and pakistan surrender their occupied land mass and make J&K as the whole as it was in the past and declare the entire disputed territory an independent state. I would like to know the comments from China and Pakistan members here.

 

[manojb]

I still dont really understand (and I think a LOT of people in the West dont really understand) why India or Pakistan want Kashmir so badly. Its not like you dont have enough land or Kashmir holds some special strategic or economic advantage. Or does it ??

There are many sources online. Here is one of them which you may find informative. BBC NEWS

 

[dabong1]

I agree with most of your comments, except the "discussion with PM of Pakistan Kashmir". As far I know, Pakistan Kashmir minister is nominated by GoP and not voted by the people.

Totally false.......the people of azad kashmir vote in a govt and choose the PM.

 

[EjazR]

The people of Kashmir do vote but there have been widespread allegations of vote rigging. However, the most recent elections are considered to be fair.

On the other hand, instead of incorporating Gilgit-Baltistan into this part of Kashmir, it has been created as a separate province where the governor is appointed by GoP. That is why a lot of resistance comes from the locals who wanted it to be just one unit instead of a seperate province.

In talks about Kashmir there are basically five geographical areas that GoI is engaging. Primarily its the people of Jammu, Ladakh and KAshmir valley. And on a secondary level its Kashmir on the Pakistani side as well as people of Gilgit-Baltistan.

Btw, one of the main problems in going ahead with UN resolutions is the plebiscite does not offer Independence which most of the separatists ( who are significant but are not in the majority) want.

Secondly China has to give up the territories it occupies which seems unlikely.

Here is a link to reports compiled by an Irish expert in conflict studies and consists of opinions of the people of Kashmir and what they want.
Pakistan administered Kashmir v Indian administered Kashmir