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India vehemently ratifies the two nation theory after 8 decades of denial.

We are hoping for the best, and with Modi in center I am sure it will be the best :)

One thing for sure, the elections results clearly indicate that the people of India strongly favour Modi.There has not been such a decisive victory for a single political party in India like this one before.As a matter of fact, the next biggest party, Congress, didnt even get the required 10% or 54 seats to be considered as leader of the opposition in parliament.

That means, people have very high expectations from Modi.So, Modi has a very difficult task cut out for him.Let's see how he goes about it.
 
Today after 8 decades of self inflicted denial the Hindu majority of India have finally ratified the two nation theory for themselves, by themselves on the democratic ballot box without compulsion or coercion. A resounding victory for the Hindu nationalist leader Narendra Modi indeed is a new chapter in South Asian history. For his Hindu nation he represents a strong leader, for Muslims of India he remains the butcher of Gujarat with blood on his hands.

Contrary to your claim, Indians of all religions have voted for a national political party of India from all across the country for development & economic growth that can give us a better life and a better nation. Creating a Hindu Rashtra is not our agenda, it never was.

With his fundamental support coming from the right wing Hindu camp of the BJP being sufficient for such a victory, the BJP did not care about the Muslim vote for the first time ever. They were simply sidelined as no effective election campaign was mounted to attract the Muslim vote. This electoral segregation will have a deep imprint and strategic implications on Indian social makeup of the future. Since the Muslim vote is not included, their participation in an overwhelmingly BJP govt will cease to exist.

Not only BJP, but no political should try to get votes on the basis of religion, caste, or creed. It is a positive development that BJP has focused on 'development' issue instead of getting involved in appeasement politics or minority politics to get votes on the basis of religion, and many Muslim voters who felt that 'development' is also their agenda have voted for BJP, that's why BJP has also own in areas with large Muslim population.

And we do not have any concept of representation in the parliament on the basis of religion, like "Muslim participation in the government", etc. that you have mentioned. :)

For Pakistan it marks the end of an ideological battle spanning 8 decades. This is a victory we must celebrate, as our historic pretext has dawned into the day of correctness and approval. Visionaries who coined the two nation theory saw this day coming 8 decades ago. Its because of their genius, connection to our past, hard work and sacrifices that we Pakistanis today see the dawn of a day which proved us 'historically right' from this side of the border. It also therefore proves that the struggle of our ancestors for independence was both historically correct and strategically right, henceforth the long treacherous journey, that has tested the Pakistani time and again, has been worth it.

It is disheartening to know that Pakistanis are still fighting an "Ideological battle" for 8 long decades to justify the existence of their nation!! Partition has happened some 67 years ago and I think Pakistan should have moved on long back. Partition was both opposed & welcomed by many people from both sides, but today many Indians would agree that partition was for good, and today it is irrelevant for most Indians.

However, the idea behind two nation theory was flawed, as it was seen in the case of liberation of Bangladesh, or the existence of large number of Indians who are Muslims by faith. Religion itself is not a binding force as evident from the fractured relationships among the Muslim countries, many people have tried to use the religion as a glue that can bind anything & everything, but such bindings are superficial & fragile.

What tomorrow holds for India's Muslim is unknown, though for us we can finally rest this debate and move on with our nation building, knowing that our struggle had been righteous despite the tact of Gandhi and Nehru in order to convince our forefathers to the contrary. Those who asked us for proofs and ridiculed us, themselves have democratically ratified the robustness and righteousness of our historic narrative.

Whatever tomorrow holds for the Indians are for all Indians to share irrespective of their faiths, and it has nothing to do with Pakistan and its politics. And again I am astonished to know that for so long Pakistan is engaged in a debate over the righteousness of the partition & existence of their nation!! I would wholeheartedly urge all Pakistanis not to ponder over the past and to move on finally and urgently focus on 'nation building', as you have suggested.

Let it be a source of humility and confidence for the Pakistani, as those who conspired to mislead our march in the past, today find themselves marching willingly and proudly along a parallel route, the same route our ancestors had created. Today we can safely write this for the historians that the future of sub continent was shaped by none other than our ancestors.
"The truth can only be delayed"
Aeronaut.

Make no mistake, we are not in a parallel route with Pakistan, our paths are different, and it will remain so forever with the exception of Pakistan discarding its current path and starts following ours. :)
 
Then moderators should act against them also.. Senior cafe was created for sane discussion right??

It's just not in the spirit of the forum when both sides start non-sense discussions. Mods are there but far from the adequate number. Obviously, they need to live their lives as well.
 
Sweetheart if honestly didn't know why I had mentioned it, you wouldn't have asked me that question.
telengana is not trying to break away from India (on any ground, religion or otherwise), not sure how it is relevant.
Its a backward area and people think having a statehood(of their own) will solve their problems. I dont see anything wrong in that.
Infact I support at least 2 more states in UP, and one state in maharastra. Big states which cannot be governed properly should be broken. But big states that is well governed (karnataka) should remain intact.
 
The saddest thing is that even after 8 decades Pakistanis are still looking to ratify their own two nation theory :lol:

So that means they don't even trust or respect their founders. This lack of confidence in nation's foundation and institutions is why Pakistanis are identityless people all over the world.

OP suggests same.

The attempt to use Namo's victory as proof to justify Two nation theory is weird.

Inefficiency of congress and superb campaigning by BJP sealed fate of UPA 2; not all voters voted for him due to his cast or the fact that he is ex-RSS.

He was successful in assuring the majority electorate which had 100 million plus first time voters that he will bring the chance, hence he got massive victory.
 
I believe the Two nation theory was not only based on religion but race aswell.

Pakistan and Indians today are alien to each other and after one more generation,we will be as much different as much the difference between india and iran or Pakistan and KSA is.
 
TNT was result of emergence of Hindutva ideology on social/political scene....

Congress and Gandhiji initially denied TNT which then resulted in direct action day.

It was then realized that if there is no partition, a very large but fragile, internally unstable India will emerge after independence as riots between Muslims and Hindus would have continued even after independence.

Finally Jinnah got Pakistan.

Well, you must know that I am a part of the minority and so are many Indian members on this forum. My religions is barely 1.7% of the total Indian population. Yet someone of my religion ruled India for 10 years and was reelected. This is India. Weird things happen here.

Bjp was born out of an ideology but nothing is permanent. They know that to survive in India, they have to take everyone along. Btw, when you say you don't care about 180 million India muslims, it shows your immaturity. You have to care as the stability of India is the most important thing in the region.

And along that, they have to deliver on promises.
 
It's just not in the spirit of the forum when both sides start non-sense discussions. Mods are there but far from the adequate number. Obviously, they need to live their lives as well.

I understand that.. But they can deny permission for those who continue to make statements like this from senior cafe..
 
In Muhammad Ali Jinnah's All India Muslim League presidential address delivered in Lahore, on March 22, 1940, he explained:


“ It is extremely difficult to appreciate why our Hindu friends fail to understand the real nature of Islam and Hinduism. They are not religions in the strict sense of the word, but are, in fact, different and distinct social orders, and it is a dream that the Hindus and Muslims can ever evolve a common nationality, and this misconception of one Indian nation has troubles and will lead India to destruction if we fail to revise our notions in time. The Hindus and Muslims belong to two different religious philosophies, social customs, litterateurs. They neither intermarry nor interdine together and, indeed, they belong to two different civilizations which are based mainly on conflicting ideas and conceptions ......... "


In India , Do Muslims and Hindus intermarry freely ?? Do they prefer to interdine together ?? Do they follow same customs , philosophies , literature etc. ?? And if they don`t , they are not one nation ... and this is what Two Nation Theory stands for .....

Two Nation Theory will fail only when The Hindus and Muslims of India evolve a common nationality , .. and this isn`t going to happen .. ever !!

Jinnah`s interpretation of TNT argued for sovereign autonomy, including the right to secede, for Muslim-majority areas of the Indian subcontinent, but without any transfer of populations (i.e. Hindus and Muslims would continue to live together) , So the assertion that TNT failed when a lot of Muslims decided to stay in India , is baseless ......


India vehemently ratifies the two nation theory after 8 decades of denial. | Page 2
 
I believe the Two nation theory was not only based on religion but race aswell.

Pakistan and Indians today are alien to each other and after one more generation,we will be as much different as much the difference between india and iran or Pakistan and KSA is.

Well if it is based on race, then argument can be drawn ..that there are four more nations which can carved out of Pakistan(perhaps a 5 th one Muhajirs too, after all they are racially Indians only) , in addition to one that has already been.

After all a Pashtun is as different from Punjabi, as a Punjabi is from Bengali.

Here in India, we believe in uniting people despite different religions, sects , ethnicity , language etc.
UNITY IN DIVERSITY is the principal we aspire as a nation.

Where as you Pakistani, believe in dividing each other over smallest of reason may that be religion(Hindu- Muslim),
Sect with in the same religion(shia- sunni- ahmedi), or race and language(Punjabi -Bengali) or even ideology.

No wonder even with a near homogeneous population, you are not at peace.
 
Dear Friend:

I appreciate the well articulated take on the Indian election but, vehemently oppose the point of view presented. The overwhelming national mandate by the populace of India to BJP led National Democratic Alliance is not based on hindu identity but a vast bank of major flaws with the incumbent government.

There has been a saying for a very long time that " India's growth is not due to the government but despite it". This tongue and cheek insult to the leadership has long been a common sentiment among the massive emerging middle class in India. This phrase is an embodiment of the decade long stifling imposed on an aspiring young country. Congress would have been long defeated if a significant focused opposition was ever presented. And to experience this discontent, we do not need to look elsewhere, ample threads exist on this very forum where eminent members have time and again expressed their displeasure over, gross corruption, institutional inaction, weak and indecisive leadership, spineless foreign policy, and the culture of reprimand that has seeped into the bureaucratic structure leading to zero ownership of reformative policies.

This public anger is not just limited to certain Indian members on this forum but indicative across the demographic structure they represent in their geographical and social scale of India. Series of early indicators of this anti-incumbent sentiment was consistently represented in the events that unfolded in last few years, Medical Strike, India Against Corruption AAP etc were precursors for India demanding decisive reforms in the political leadership which now the people realized is the root cause of issues plaguing the development of people of India. Narendra Modi and his style of policy is exactly what appeals as the solution needed by the country, so much that even in 2009, there were mellow voices suggesting him to be the prime runner. More than the party choosing a candidate, this election chose Modi to be prime candidate. If some one like Advani was chosen instead, the outcome would have been the exact opposite.

Narendra Modi; started as Sangh Pracharak, (volunteer corp of RSS); and in his development he was associated with the Jan Sangh, and later BJP, and if you look closely he is known to be a master strategist for BJP. Within his experience the aspirations of people is very well known to him along with his core advisers. To paint him just by the events of the godhra riot's is obfuscation of the policies and agenda which the country voted on. Modi even to his critics like me, represents strong leadership and that is exactly what he promised to provide.

BJP led NDA fought a three pronged election where they presented strong decisive pro business environment which aligned them with Corporate sector, traders, big farms and the upper middle class. BJP also promised transparent government, Economic development and decisive leadership which found overwhelming support in the middle class of India, And the third most important issue was small business promotion, tax reforms, project execution, and highlighting the failures of the UPA2 ensured acceptance in the lower economic strata. Pre poll alliances and good execution in selection process of candidate ensure better representation of lower caste communities aligning themselves with the realities of remote rural demographics.

On the flip-side, taking a card from the AAP's delhi success, Congress and it's ill fated leadership ran a completely negative campaign of irrelevant issues, hapless agenda, hit and run remarks. Now a negative campaign can only take you to a certain length, which seems to be 42 seats, But when compared to a recipe of a well focused, well planned developmental agenda that promises measurable and quantifiable change, the selection of the Indian public is fairly a very simple one...

I can't help but draw a similarity between your view and that of the incumbent government's, where the presumption is that the population of India will vote on irrelevant issues of vote-bank appeasement instead of development. Suggesting the cumulative mandate of an 800 million strong electorate as just a Hindu vote is completely oblivious to the aspirations of India.

Regards.

In this election, first time voters played their part well and many experts are suggesting that they are one of the main reasons why Modi got so huge success.
 
Well if it is based on race, then argument can be drawn ..that there are four more nations which can carved out of Pakistan(perhaps a 5 th one Muhajirs too, after all they are racially Indians only) , in addition to one that has already been.

After all a Pashtun is as different from Punjabi, as a Punjabi is from Bengali.

Here in India, we believe in uniting people despite different religions, sects , ethnicity , language etc.
UNITY IN DIVERSITY is the principal we aspire as a nation.

Where as you Pakistani, believe in dividing each other over smallest of reason may that be religion(Hindu- Muslim),
Sect with in the same religion(shia- sunni- ahmedi), or race and language(Punjabi -Bengali) or even ideology.

No wonder even with a near homogeneous population, you are not at peace.

we were at peace until the last decade,

taliban are not even 0.00000000000000000000001% of pakistan population
 
we were at peace until the last decade,

taliban are not even 0.00000000000000000000001% of pakistan population

No, you need to get know your history..before taliban came along you use have Shia-Sunni riots, before that anit-ahmadiya riots , before that anti- Bengali genocide and before that again anti-ahmadiya riots again. Even today your minorities are fleeing Pakistan at record rates.
 
You can call it evolution, which we saw coming & decided to part ways as it wouldn't have worked for us. Today history proves our call was right and timely placed.

No Indian-at least young Indian- thinks that Partition was bad thing.

The people with 70 plus age may have nostalgia of Raj (which could be found on both sides of border), but majority Indians today (and in case of youth overwhelming majority) thank the partition, as they see the situation in Pakistan and mess in Afghanistan.
 
No, you need to get know your history..before taliban came along you use have Shia-Sunni riots, before that anit-ahmadiya riots , before that anti- Bengali genocide and before that again anti-ahmadiya riots again.

Such small scale riots are part of all the developing countries.Pakistan prior to the Afghanistan invasion by NATO was more peaceful than india,and it is a fact.

the Bangladesh genocide again wasnt between the present Pakistani ethnicities as you claimed of not being united.

Pakistan today are far more invited than they ever were,its upto you believe it or not.From khunjerab to karachi everyone hate taliban.I am a pashtun and i hate the taliban more than anything else.

The past 5 years under PPP and the surviving of Pakistan has proved one thing that even if world war III is fought within the Pakistani boundries,Pakistan won't split.Even though only less than 7decades old.Our foundation this terrorism has made stronger than countries like iran and turkey with centuries old foundation.

Ofcourse i don't care if you believe in this or not
 
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