India unlikely to get its First Stealth Fighter FGFA before 2025

[帅的一匹]

I meant might* It was a mis type.Anyhow we are 4th largest military power.

You are behind Japan, German, and UK, France. You could be top 10.

 

[Lostsoldier]

You are behind Japan, German, and UK, France. You could be top 10.

You have no idea what largest means.Give me a few good reasons that why we aren't fourth.Dont mention defence budget.

 

[Speeder 2]

India’s quest for advanced stealth fighter yet to emerge from doldrums​

View attachment 146403
Sukhoi/HAL Fifth Generation Fighter Aircraft (FGFA) or Perspective Multi-role Fighter (PMF) is a derivative project from the PAK FA (T-50 is the prototype) being developed for the Indian Air Force.​

NEW DELHI: India is not likely to get a futuristic stealth fighter anytime before 2024-2025. Technical and price wrangles continue to bedevil the joint project with Russia to develop the fifth-generation fighter aircraft (FGFA).

India, in fact, has conveyed its deep concerns to Russia about being denied "full access" to the FGFA project despite the fact that it is supposed to be an equal partner in financing it. The "continuing problems" in the project has meant India and Russia are still to ink the full final design or R&D phase contract for the FGFA, throwing revised timelines into yet another tailspin.

Earlier this year, officials were also shocked to find that India's work-share in the FGFA project had been reduced to just 13% from the earlier envisaged one of 50%. "Russia is yet to clear our lingering technical doubts about the project. But with President Vladimir Putin coming to India in December, there might finally be some forward movement," said a source.

India and Russia had inked the $295 million preliminary design contract in December 2010, as per which the under-development Russian 5th Gen fighter called Sukhoi T-50 would be tweaked to Indian requirements for its "perspective multi-role fighter".

But the final R&D contract, which was to be signed by 2012, is still to be finalized. Under it, India and Russia are supposed to chip in with $5.5 billion each towards the cost of designing, infrastructure build-up, prototype development and flight testing, as earlier reported by TOI.


All the 127 single-seat fighters that India hopes to induct are to be built at the Ozar facility of Hindustan Aeronautics in Nashik. In fact, the first Indian FGFA prototype was earlier slated to reach Ozar by 2014, with the second and third following in 2017 and 2019.

"But this obviously cannot happen now. The project's full R&D phase will also be pushed back to 2021-2022, only after which HAL will begin manufacturing the fighters," said the source.

India has repeatedly rebuffed overtures made by the US for joining its Joint Strike Fighter (JSF) or the F-35 'Lightning-II' programme. Now, having sunk in a lot of time and money into the FGFA project with Russia, it has no option but to pursue it.

But it has reduced the required numbers from an earlier 166 single-seat and 48 twin-seat 5th Gen fighters to just 127 single-seat ones. It was felt that the twin-seat option would reduce the stealth features and add weight as well as make the fighter much more expensive.

Source:- India’s quest for advanced stealth fighter yet to emerge from doldrums - The Times of India

Yet again, Indian members must be forced to confront such a simple question:

Why, why, and WHY at a time of anything that is real and important, you'll never see the chest-thumping indigenous big mouthes such as heads of DRDO, and HAL and ISRO anywhere remotely near to your propaganda press?

 

[Archie]

Yet again, Indian members must be forced to confront such a simple question:

Why, why, and WHY at a time of anything that is real and important, you'll never see the chest-thumping indigenous big mouthes such as heads of DRDO, and HAL and ISRO anywhere remotely near to your propaganda press?

Esteemed Member of the 50 cent army.

Congratulation on your big pay day

But you are mistaking Indian Press to be like chinese press
Unlike you, our media is not under state control

 

[Basel]

Waste of time....should have went with the Americans. We dont have the time to spare nor do we have the time for mistakes.

India don't have any problems as they already have advantage of quality and quantity against there major foe and it will remain like this till 2025 as PAF is now getting 4th gen planes replacing its 3rd gen planes and they will not go for 5th gen plane until IAF gets it so not worries for India as you will not fight China.

 

[Archie]

As far as this new is concerned

The french will have a Party tonight.

Coz they just guaranteed themselves a deal for 189 Rafales

Also I wonder if anyone has noticed,
But the initial number of FGFA to be ordered by IAF, keeps on falling

It was 216 in yr 2010, which fell to 144 in year 2012, and now it seems IAF will induct 127 FGFA in first contract. With future contracts dependent on the budget and performance of the aircraft

It basically means that Money will move from FGFA towards Rafale.

 

[mike2000]

Waste of time....should have went with the Americans. We dont have the time to spare nor do we have the time for mistakes.

Exactly, Russia is taking you people for a ride. It just needs your bucks, Since it knows India doesn'tcontribute/ brings anything on the table technology wise to it. So it only need your dollars and will do anything it can to get it as it has been doing for decades now, while giving/transfering you the least tech as possible, so it can keep you forever dependent on them.

I already said it before, India should come closer to the west/U.S/Israel/Japan and leave Moscow who has other morepressing interests on other world issues. Our interests match much more with India than Russia's. Hopefully India makes the right choice.

Americans are dubious too when it comes to Tot and R&d grants

Its ok bro, that's because some of your brothers still consider Soviet Russia their 'best friend' .lool
So they wont like to think rationally.

 

[C130]

Americans are dubious too when it comes to Tot and R&d grants

yet Russia is shutting India out, lol 50% partnership work reduced to 13% and now India won't get a prototype til the 2020's

in just 5 years the price of F-35 is suppose to drop down to $80 mil range and the weapon systems and avionics will have significantly matured

PAK-FA might just be a spruce goose.

a glorified mythical SU-35++

 

[mike2000]

yet Russia is shutting India out, lol 50% partnership work reduced to 13% and now India won't get a prototype til the 2020's

in just 5 years the price of F-35 is suppose to drop down to $80 mil range and the weapon systems and avionics will have significantly matured

PAK-FA might just be a spruce goose.

a glorified mythical SU-35++

ahahah...well said bro.

 

[Ragnar]

yet Russia is shutting India out, lol 50% partnership work reduced to 13% and now India won't get a prototype til the 2020's

in just 5 years the price of F-35 is suppose to drop down to $80 mil range and the weapon systems and avionics will have significantly matured

PAK-FA might just be a spruce goose.

a glorified mythical SU-35++

I broadly agree. TOT or not, countries don't just give up cutting-edge technologies willingly, especially to potential future competitors. China got it right- just steal and copy. Every country does that. Even the first Soviet tanks were copies of American Christie designs. They advanced from that point to T-34.

But what do you think about this statement?

That is why the current upgrade programs to the F-22 I put easily as critical as my F-35 fleet. If I do not keep that F-22 fleet viable, the F-35 fleet frankly will be irrelevant. The F-35 is not built as an air superiority platform. It needs the F-22.

http://www.airforcetimes.com/articl...-s-challenge-Buy-new-modernize-older-aircraft

As a smaller air-force with respect to PLAAF, India will focus on air superiority. Plus, India won't fight under the NATO umbrella. Perhaps F-35 I with Israeli mods in the future. I think India will wait and watch and hedge with Rafales for now.

 

[帅的一匹]

You have no idea what largest means.Give me a few good reasons that why we aren't fourth.Dont mention defence budget.

per industrial ability

 

[Lostsoldier]

per industrial ability

Don't you think the numbers matter?

 

[帅的一匹]

Don't you think the numbers matter?

Both quality and number matters. considering India is still a large military weapon importer, and still import rifles from outside. The ability during war to maintain those weapons from many countries really be worrying. China could be top 5 and India could be top 10.

Come on dude, being top 10 in the world in not that easy, you shall have your pride.

 

[Lostsoldier]

W

Both quality and number matters. considering India is still a large military weapon importer, and still import rifles from outside. The ability during war to maintain those weapons from many countries really be worrying. China could be top 5 and India could be top 10.

Come on dude, being top 10 in the world in not that easy, you shall have your pride.

Well for me China is second largest military power, you are self reliant in military, from planes,to tanks you manufacture everything. We have one of world's most advance airforce, navy and tanks. We lack in aircraft manufacturing. Thought we manufacture mki but mki is a costly plane.We are good at naval vessels,except submarines. In terms of army we manufacture our rifles and development of a replacement is going on.At last you won't debate on numbers.Right?

 

[ptltejas]

So basically you think that we can't make AMCA alone, since we need foreign support on ALL key developments, which then again is exactly what we get from FGFA, stealth design, NG radar and engine.

Transfer of Technology must be resulted into the adding values to the Fighter Jets, If we pay more money for Transfer of Technology, mainly perhaps due to learn the fighter building, and then not copy and paste, its useless, we paid for the Su-30 TOT and if its not copy like china what shall be use of that, In case of Rafale too, what is purpose of not use Transfer of Tigech something is needed, to use this TOT, otherwise no mean of wasting more money. I think if Rafale includes the Avionics, and Radar and Engine TOT that would be useful to built and further growing if possible with private indian sector, but else no need to pay more, and when we pay billions of $$$ the right to access this technology must be included in it. and thats also earliar, not like the Su-30 where we are not able to get 100% TOT design yet Now. we need to give Kaveri engine to the private Indian sector to further develop that, which can be perhaps useful for future indian engine developments.

Be realistic man, we are still stuck in core developments of the 4th generation and need to get that done before we can dream bigger.

True I think the Base of Thinking process is lack in India, Babus system might be become hurdle in clearing the problems, DRDO lack of ambition like ISRO leads to them failure. I think the Aim is required, there was problem of single cristal alloy tech which is clear now, so now there may be chances to further develop the kaveri, Need to be result orinented, and open private market by giving knowledge of engine, radar to them. whether that would be solve the problem?