What's new

India to Test “China Killer” Agni-V ICBM

When India test-fired its Agni V missile for the second time on Sunday, the buzz, predictably, was about how far it can fly and which all cities around the world can now be targeted. For a nation obsessed with numbers, the 5,000 km plus range of the nuclear capable missile has somehow become a convoluted symbol of India's 'global position'.

In reality, the challenge for India's missile programme lies much farther ahead of the range it can achieve, scientists after all have sent a mission to the moon. As India's top missile scientist and head of the DRDO Avinash Chander puts it, give scientists a number and two years of time and anything can be achieved.

The challenge lies in proving technology of such strategic nature at a different level — gaining the trust of the users, the Strategic Forces Command, that a foolproof system will not fail in the time of need. While four more tests will be carried out before formal induction of the serial produced variant in two years, a critical factor will be ensuring the quality of production — a sore issue that has plagued not just missiles but most indigenous military systems.

An even bigger challenge that remains is fine-tuning the technology to meet the requirements of a modern and dynamic battlefield. The Agni V has a designed precision of landing within a 100 metre of the intended target (CEP). This needs to be brought down to 10-15 metre. Though nuclear missiles can afford to be a bit off the target, it must not be forgotten that the Agni series also have a conventional role. A military mind would appreciate how far the capability of precisely hitting a hardened target at long range with a conventional warhead can be exploited.

Last but not the least, is the development of MIRVs (Multiple Independently targetable Re-entry Vehicle) — a single ballistic missile carrying multiple warheads — that are needed to defeat modern missile defence systems. Unfortunately, while DRDO has been working on this technology and has even fabricated certain modules to facilitate future tests, a decision has not yet been taken to initiate a formal MIRV missile programme.

A mindless descent into nuclear madness that India can Ill afford. I wonder why we need to play Star Wars -II with China. USSR and The USA were existential threats to each other, and had ideological spheres involving tens of nations to defend. What does India have against China - a couple of thousand square miles of disputed frozen waste, and a border skirmish more than 50 years ago in which China practically achieved its border goals. And here we are talking of MIRVs and ICBMs as if we have a life and death struggle with China.

And we all know what happens to the economically weaker nation in a costly arms race. USSR...anyone??
 
.


1 thing alone, amongst numerous technological hurdles impossible for India to across within this century, renders so called "China killer" Agni 5 an typical Indian delusion.

See if Indian IQ get these:


Fact 1:

the tempreture of warhead during reentry for 10,000km ICBM is about 10,000 degrees.


Fact 2:

the tempreture of warhead during re-entry for 5,000km long-distance missile (e.g. Agni 5)is about 5,000 degrees, roughly using linear interpolation.


Fact 3:

Indian reports indicate that Agni 5 has verified India's capability to handle 2,000 degree reentry warhead.


Therefore, India's true capability of delivering a meaningful & effective warhead (i.e. wihtout being melt by high temp during reentry :lol:) is about 2,000 to 3,000km range.

Even though Agni 5 reached 5,000km, it means 0 :-)woot: India's favourate number)because its warhead, whatever it was, was melted during re-entry in outer atmersphere by >5,000 degrees tempreture.

That's why you'll NEVER see ANY photo, or video clip, or any mention AT ALL about recovering Agni 5 warhead from DRTROLL when they're lying to the big mouth Indian press. :yay:

That's why there's little reaction from Chinese language military forums on Agni 5 by Chinese military fans. Simples!

Becasue Agni 5 is meaningless in reality, with its shabby reliability, short (with unmelted warhead) range, G+HUGE CEP, and 0 knowhoe on warhead miniaturosation, etc a whole host of technological hurdles.:lol:


Speaking of accuracy, Agni 5 is an embarrassment.

Fact 1: In1980’s “580 mission” to the South Pacific, China launched ICBMs with a range of over 9,000 km , draw the restricted area of about more than 50,000 square kilometers .

Fact 2: In 2012 when India launched the Indian Ocean Agni 5 , a range of 5,000 km , it draw the restricted area of 600,000 square kilometers .


So the accuracy/CEP of 5,000km Agni 5 is an order of magnitude ( about 11 times) worse than Chinese 9,000km ICBM lanuched in 1980's. Reality Check! :omghaha:


 
.
^^^^ chinese losers vomiting BS due to success of Agni 5 ....... :omghaha:
 
. . .
Agni5 and the later missiles in the series are necessary for our defence . These missiles will make sure that we have a credible deterrence against our adversaries and potential adversaries .

Although the analysis is wrong comparing A5 to balance of power in SA as A5 will not have any role in SA equation .
 
.
Guy, there is nothing against Pakistan. Why are you upset?

Darling, you have no idea what you are talking about; you need to spend some more time here to get an idea.
@isro2222 will tell you now.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
.
Yes,it should have been written by a Chinese,who else would post such high.quality BS?

1.Agni series have been tested much more times than whats said above,but wel,'high IQ Chinese' even think that India has no facility to produce solid fuel for its SLVs & Missiles....huh...What else to say?*

2.The sophistication level is not even close to Pakistan,NK & Iran?What is this 'sophistication' level?

3.Planned agni VI belong to the same series as Agni II.........??

4.Agni III & IV are derived from PSLV?Just a baseless,BS statement.They have nothing to do with PSLV or ISRO...Who is this 'expert'??

5.It was only the first stage of Agni TD that was adopted from ISRO.And that stage underwent many changes-Including use of composites as in A-4.

6. '*This is not surprising , since India's rocket technology is the introduction of foreign civilian missile technology, rather than develop their own technology'
What sort of BS is that?India's solid rocket technology graduated from sounding rockets from late 60s to a Solid fueled SLV-3 in 1979,Foreign tech?Prove it then !

7.The adoption of SLV first stage to Agni series happenned in early 80s,that is 30 years ago.So stop making a fool out of yourself.

Agni VI is too long?Well,its dimensions are not available yet,Also our Agni IV is only as long as the MRBM of our neighbour (And your ally)

7.India does not have its own RLGs??We tested them way back in Agni.III & Shaurya.

8.And last but not the least....India is far behind Pakistan,Iran & North Korea in missile technology.Among these Iran has best technology as it launched an SLV back in 2008......!!!

ButIndia,which launched its first SLV back in 1079 is far behind these three!!! :omghaha: :omghaha:
 
.
It is equivalent to China's 60s tech...


Acutally China's 60 tech is much better than Agni 5, becasue

1. China's 60s were truly indigenous, since both the Soviet and the USA would not sell anything useful to China, unlike Agni 5.

2. China's 60's missiles were inducted officially - meaning rigerously tested, verified being very matured technology, while this bought-off-Ruskie-shelf work-in-progress antique Agni 5 was only tested twice...before it lands in Mumbai one day...:lol:
 
.
Missile impossible: why the Agni-V falls short
April 26, 2012 Rakesh Krishnan Simha

India’s strategic missile programme is stunted because the political leadership lacks the nerve to okay a true ICBM.

link

Now that the celebrations are over, it’s time for the hangover. Okay, let’s get this straight – India’s brand spanking new Agni-V is not an inter-continental ballistic missile (ICBM). I’m not making this up – by definition a true ICBM must have a range that’s over 5500 kilometre. India’s latest Agni falls well short of that mark. Definitions cannot be tweaked at the whim of politicians or flacks, which brings us to the ominous conclusion that India does not have an ICBM today and won’t have one in the near future.

I’m not suggesting that the Agni-V is a dud. The missile, in fact, plugs a big gap in India’s defence. But first chew on this: in 1971 China test fired the Dong Feng-5 missile that had a range of over 12,000. So 40 years after living under the shadow of the DF-5, India’s political leadership has finally greenlighted a missile that can hit China’s coastal areas – its economic and demographic heartland. Should we be thankful to New Delhi for a missile that is really an extended intermediate range ballistic missile (IRBM) that’s four decades late? Or should we ponder if our political elites have any grasp of strategy?

Going ballistic over a missile

India’s strategic community and the military have been clamouring for decades that to have bullet-proof security, India needs an ICBM that can reach every major country on the planet; that is, a missile with a range of at least 12,000 kilometre.
Now there are many people on the other side of the debate who question whether ICBMs are such a big deal. Their reasoning is that India’s furthest rival is China so there’s no need for a missile that travels further than that country. Plus, they argue, the US and Europe aren’t inimical to India so why provoke their ire by developing missiles that could potentially target these benign fellows?

Such thinking ignores a basic precept of defence – a nation must forever wage peace but keep its powder dry. ICBMs are strategic weapons and without a global-range missile, India will be unable to break out of its regional context. It’s as simple as that.

The ICBM is the doomsday weapon that separates the men from the boys in the global slugfest. While it is true that economic strength plays a key role in shaping international power equations, strategic missiles alone can guarantee fail-safe national security. As the Federation of American Scientists says, “Regardless of the origin of a conflict, a country may involve the entire world simply by threatening to spread the war with an ICBM.”

The supposedly horrendous cost of building and maintaining ICBMs is also touted as a reason why nations should avoid them. However, for decades China has strutted on the global stage on the strength of just 20 silo-based ICBMs. Today, of course, it has nuclear armed submarines and road mobile ICBMs, but those 20 venerable missiles have given it strategic parity with the US and Russia who both possess hundreds of missiles.

Clearly, strategic missiles are one reason (the other being the permanent seat at the UN Security Council) why regional chipmunks like France and Britain continue to talk big whereas Germany and Japan despite their massive economies remain fringe players. Without a credible ICBM force, India will be looked upon as nothing more than a subcontinental bully – a country that aspires to play hardball with the giants but ends up relegated to the minor league.

Stunted development

The problem with India’s missile development programme is that there is no clear strategic policy or urgency regarding deployment. India is the only country in the world that has developed a range of missiles but which remain either on the drawing board or have got stuck at the demo stage.

In the case of virtually every Agni series missile, after a couple of tests the Defence Research & Development Organisation (DRDO) declared that development was complete. The impression conveyed was the missile was ready to be handed over to the army. But then the DRDO went in for an improved version, for the cycle to begin all over again.

Missiles need to be tested dozens of times under all sorts of operational conditions to validate their performance and reliability. Take the Agni-IV, which failed its first test in December 2010. This missile was not tested again until November 15, 2011.

It’s as if the scientists are sent on a long holiday after each launch. This is not how von Braun or Sergei Korolyov worked to build strategic missiles for the US and Russia. This approach will not ensure the reliability of India's missile force, but it drives many Indians, well, ballistic.

5000 kilometre red line

Who knows, perhaps the scientists are indeed being sent on extended holidays. The chief reason why India’s ICBM development has proceeded at the speed of snails is intense American pressure. According to the Centre for Land Warfare Studies, New Delhi, in the late 1990s India had to postpone the Agni test flights on more than one occasion under US influence.

It is also well-known that back in 1992 the US had asked President Boris Yeltsin to stop the transfer of Russian cryogenic engines although the complex cryogenic technology is of little use in ballistic missiles.

There are two reasons why the US wants to scuttle India’s ICBM plans – one, America’s hopelessly inadequate (some say unworkable) missile defence systems will have the additional task of monitoring Indian ICBMs. Secondly, plain arrogance – a former Cold War opponent shouldn’t be allowed to develop missiles that could target good ole American folks. America has, therefore, drawn a red line that it will not tolerate India crossing, and that line is the 5000 kilometre mark.

It is in this backdrop that the Chinese, despite their usually shrill rhetoric, were right when last week they claimed that under NATO pressure India had limited the Agni’s range.

Under the sea, under-powered

The same goes for India's nuclear submarine under construction. The Arihant, which will be launched in a couple of years, will also be hampered by the 700 kilometre range of its submarine launched ballistic missile (SLBM).

By its very definition a nuclear-powered, nuclear-armed submarine must be undetectable and strike from unpredictable ranges. It could be lurking in the South Pacific, for instance, and yet be able to launch a missile at New York, London or Beijing, or all three at the same time. However, armed with a short range IRBM, the Arihant will have to get up close – and vulnerable – to the enemy to launch its missiles.

No other country in the world has developed such a short-range SLBM; if India has a new nuclear doctrine we’d like to know what it is. At any rate, after pouring in billions into the nuclear submarine programme, that’s very little bang for the buck.

Missile mislabelling

So why is everyone calling it an ICBM? Two reasons: recently the spat with the army chief has exposed the Indian leaders as irresponsible wimps who have seriously hampered the army’s war fighting capacity. (Where else on the planet can you find an army with a million troops, but with ammunition barely enough for four days of fighting?)

So the political leadership is hoping the Agni-5 with an ‘ICBM’ tag will distract voters long enough so they forget how the same politicians have been eroding India’s combat readiness. MBAs couldn’t have done a better marketing job.

The second reason is that the majority of the Indian public doesn’t care about geopolitical matters. According to a survey conducted by the Delhi-based Centre for the Study of Developing Societies in 1999 – only one year after the Pokhran atomic tests – 53.5% of India's electorate had never even heard of the nuclear tests. Moreover, 35.6 percent of the respondents had never heard of China, India’s leading rival.

The last reason is that the media, whose job is to inform is itself misinformed. Barring a few exceptions, the Indian media is ignorant of defence matters. Many of the defence correspondents are chest-thumping stenographers of the government. Take this amateurish drivel from NDTV a day after the test: “Tipped to be a game changer, Agni-V will make the world fear India.”
You get the picture.

No stopping now?

If there’s some good news it is that missile development has an irresistible momentum of its own. The DRDO insists it won’t cap the missile programme, and is reportedly developing the 16,000 kilometre Surya ICBM, an anti-satellite missile, a reusable heavy lift rocket and a hypersonic aircraft among others.

Bharat Karnad, one of the authors of India’s 1999 draft nuclear doctrine, told Arms Control Today: “The technological momentum driving the Indian missile programme is going to take it well beyond the 5,000 kilometre range Agni-5 and into producing genuine ICBM category delivery systems, if only to match China.” And he added, “Longer range, more accurate missiles will be developed by India as a technological imperative.”

One can’t but detect a trace of desperation in Karnad’s statement. He and other members of India’s strategic community have long voiced such opinions in the hope that the Indian public will demand more urgency and accountability from the political leadership.

Hope, however, is not good policy.
 
.
Everytime india test Agni-IV, AGNI-V the communist party of china sings hindi-chini bhai bhai.... It seems they only hear a aggressive language. The more aggressive india get the more china speak softly. Funny.... They should wait for Agni-6.... i mean thats a killer which can carry several warheads and drop at several different locations. 1 missile and multiple targets. Great.

there is nothing to talk about in the second shot
we have seen it all in the first one - that was a false alarm!
cheerleading indians are just this "good" along with the loudest bragging, as usual!
 
.
Acutally China's 60 tech is much better than Agni 5, becasue

1. China's 60s were truly indigenous, since both the Soviet and the USA would not sell anything useful to China, unlike Agni 5.

2. China's 60's missiles were inducted officially - meaning rigerously tested, verified being very matured technology, while this bought-off-Ruskie-shelf work-in-progress antique Agni 5 was only tested twice...before it lands in Mumbai one day...:lol:

Can you prove that Agni V is Russian transferred tech??

Or else STFU & GTFO
 
.

Pakistan Defence Latest Posts

Pakistan Affairs Latest Posts

Back
Top Bottom