What's new

India to get C-130J Super Hercules in December 2010

Why do we need the C27J? IAF wants to replace most of the transport aircrafts with MTA, also NAL is developing an turbo prob transport aircraft the RTA, which should be in C27 class, so I doubt that we really need it right?
One more thing, why so many C17? What makes it 4 times more worth then a IL 76? Less crew, more payload and short take off capabilities ok, on the other side the range is only slightly better, MTA will use the same engines and all IL 78 and A50 use the same platform so more commonality and less costs right?
I understand that we need 10 C17, for special transports to bad air strips, but replacing all IL 76 for such high costs seems not to be needed.

MTA is nowhere is sight! That's is the reason for the interest being shown recently in C-27J. Having said that, I would prefer IAF to wait it out and order a larger fleet of MTA. It all depends on how long it takes for the aircraft to develop!

C17 represents substantial savings for the airforce. We also need to consider the savings in operations/ maintainance. The C-17 factsheet gives a lot of information in this regard. From crew reduction alone, the savings should be in the tune of 10-20 million dollars (inclusive of support). IAF Il-76 aircrafts are old and the proposed move towards C-17 is seen as a replacement. I am sure IAF would have done cost benefit analysis and decided on the platform based on not just tactical but strategic objectives!
 
.
Thanks for the pic. MTA sure looks like a good design. Let us hope we see the first flight soon. I am expecting the same by 2012-13.
 
.
That's not correct, an RFI is send out to Boeing for the KC 767 tanker, not a 737 and only that tanker, the A330 and the IL 76 will be in the new competition.
I guess the KC 767 will win, because it offers nearly everything that the A330 offers, in a smaller size and for less costs.

Read the link below carefully- also i have highlighted the parts

BY : Nasdaq
Lockheed Martin Corp. (LMT) is in talks with the Indian Air Force to sell an additional six Super Hercules C-130J military transport planes, a senior executive at the company’s India unit said Saturday.

“There was an option in the original request for additional six [Hercules planes] and we are in dialogue with the Indian Air Force for the addition of those six,” Orville Prins, Lockheed’s vice president, business development, in charge of India, told Dow Jones Newswires. “What’s the timing of this [order], we don’t know yet.”

Lockheed Martin is currently implementing a similar order for supplying six Super Hercules planes in a deal worth about $1 billion. The company bagged the order in February 2008.

The company will deliver the first Hercules plane to the Indian Air Force by the end of this year, Prins said.

“We are slightly ahead of the schedule to deliver these planes,” Prins said. ” Under our contract we had to deliver the first plane by first quarter of 2011. It’ll probably be delivered by late this year, maybe by December.”

Prins said Lockheed Martin last week completed a third phase of trials of its F-16 Falcon fighter plane, competing for an estimated $10 billion contract from the Indian Air Force to supply 126 combat jets.

“We completed second phase in India last year. Phase-three trials are in the home country of each competitor and we completed those last week in the U.S.,” he said.

The F-16 Falcon is competing with Boeing Co.’s (BA) F/A-18, the MIG-35 of Russian Aircraft Corp.’s MiG, Saab AB’s (SAAB-B.SK) JAS-39 Gripen, the Eurofighter Typhoon and Dassault Aviation SA’s (AM.FR) Rafale for the contract.

India plans to buy the 126 jets, as well as advanced helicopters and other defense equipment, to modernize its mainly Soviet-vintage defense forces. India, which is among the world’s top arms importers, has earmarked 1.42 trillion rupees ($30.5 billion) as capital expenditure on defense for the current fiscal year through March 31, up from INR1.06 trillion in the previous year.

Lockheed Martin has responded to an initial request for information from India’s federal government for supplying six refueling tankers, Prins said.
Which one????????????????? sancho any help from you

He said the company has also received an initial request for information from the Indian Navy for a carrier-based fighter aircraft.
F35 i guess

“There’s no number to the Indian Navy request as yet,” Prins said.

As i said i dont give any wrong information L.Martin has responded to this let me get that link also - all i post is data which i read several times.
 
.
well afaik, there is no 737 based tanker out there. KC767 on the other hand is a reality!
 
.
As far as 767 or 737 is concerned - aircraft name & numbers confuse me but main news is what i always quote correctly,
e.g boeing offers mid air refullers(i will remember this)- its 737/767 i can hardly remember this part.
Thats why i asked for help in that post - i also said i cant remember
As far as refullers is concerned .
New tender is floated to
Russia- IL78
Europe-Airbus330mrt
US- Boeing kc-737 modified
Lockeheed- KX135 or so cant say i have to google it

I gave link in my post before this - RFI has also been sent to lockheed abt refullers,
which SANCHO objected earlier and said only Boeing+IL+Airbus have been asked.
 
Last edited:
.
As far as 767 or 737 is concerned - aircraft name & numbers confuse me but main news is what i always quote correctly,
e.g boeing offers mid air refullers(i will remember this)- its 737/767 i can hardly remember this part.
Thats why i asked for help in that post - i also said i cant remember

Don't worry! Mistakes are a part of life. It is in the spirit of healthy debate that people may correct certain specifics pointed out. It does not mean that your effort is any less credible! It is the intent that counts!

Also, come up with arguments to the contrary if you feel you are right! I am sure it would be taken up in the spirit of this forum!
 
Last edited:
.
MTA is nowhere is sight! That's is the reason for the interest being shown recently in C-27J. Having said that, I would prefer IAF to wait it out and order a larger fleet of MTA. It all depends on how long it takes for the aircraft to develop!
But MTA is in the class of C130, not C27, so why take another type if we can simply order some more C130 and as I said, an lighter turbo prob transporter is maybe under development too.

C17 represents substantial savings for the airforce. We also need to consider the savings in operations/ maintainance. The C-17 factsheet gives a lot of information in this regard. From crew reduction alone, the savings should be in the tune of 10-20 million dollars (inclusive of support). IAF Il-76 aircrafts are old and the proposed move towards C-17 is seen as a replacement. I am sure IAF would have done cost benefit analysis and decided on the platform based on not just tactical but strategic objectives!
I am sure that they have some cost savings, but nothing to make it really woth it! I mean one C17, 77t payload, 3 crew and $200 cost, two IL 76 MD 90, crew of 12 (!), 100t payload and $100 million cost. Wonder how many crew members the IL 476 would need?
 
.
I am sure that they have some cost savings, but nothing to make it really woth it! I mean one C17, 77t payload, 3 crew and $200 cost, two IL 76 MD 90, crew of 12 (!), 100t payload and $100 million cost. Wonder how many crew members the IL 476 would need?

I don't see Il 476 flying around unlike the C-17! Also, it would seem that IAF has fallen in love with the beast thanks to its STOL capability. I was amazed to see the same last year... it is breathtaking indeed :agree:! To be honest, I feel we should leave the decisions on the armed forces. They know best and would surely take the right decisions. I am sure they feel C-17 provides a better aircraft in all. It is possible that IAF might go for Il-476 eventually (when it is available) but it makes no sense for the air force to wait around for russia to come up with its promises and let its capabilities languish!

On a side note, Il-76's are not in production. It is likely that when it starts, prices will go sky high. We all know what happened with the chinese deal for Il-76's & 78's :disagree: IMO, we make a huge mistake by thinking that the Russian hardware is still cheap. Though it may still hold a cost advantage, it is no longer substantial!
 
.
As far as 767 or 737 is concerned - aircraft name & numbers confuse me but main news is what i always quote correctly,
e.g boeing offers mid air refullers(i will remember this)- its 737/767 i can hardly remember this part.
Thats why i asked for help in that post - i also said i cant remember


I gave link in my post before this - RFI has also been sent to lockheed abt refullers,
which SANCHO objected earlier and said only Boeing+IL+Airbus have been asked.


Cool down mate, you made a mistake with 737 and that's what I pointed out and corrected. The RFI to LM was new to me, but I couldn't find the KX 135 that you mentioned on their side and the link you provided didn't say anything about it. Any link, where possible specs are available?

Lockheed Martin has responded to an initial request for information from India’s federal government for supplying six refueling tankers, Prins said.
Which one????????????????? sancho any help from you
Maybe these?

http://www.lockheedmartin.com/products/c130/variants/kc-130j-supertanker.html

But these wouldn't fit in the other refueller competition.
 
Last edited:
.
I don't see Il 476 flying around unlike the C-17! Also, it would seem that IAF has fallen in love with the beast thanks to its STOL capability. I was amazed to see the same last year... it is breathtaking indeed :agree:! To be honest, I feel we should leave the decisions on the armed forces. They know best and would surely take the right decisions. I am sure they feel C-17 provides a better aircraft in all. It is possible that IAF might go for Il-476 eventually (when it is available) but it makes no sense for the air force to wait around for russia to come up with its promises and let its capabilities languish!

On a side note, Il-76's are not in production. It is likely that when it starts, prices will go sky high. We all know what happened with the chinese deal for Il-76's & 78's :disagree: IMO, we make a huge mistake by thinking that the Russian hardware is still cheap. Though it may still hold a cost advantage, it is no longer substantial!

I also want some C17 (10 sounds good), only replacing the whole IL fleet with these seems to me way too costly, that's way I asked what the big advantage of them is to make it worth it and it's not like the fleet is in such a bad condition that we have to replace them all right now or?
On the other side, I would prefer replacing all IL 78 in a row with new and more capable MRTTs and th IL 78 could be converted back to normal transporters again. Double the number and the A330 could be much cheaper again right?
 
.
I also want some C17 (10 sounds good), only replacing the whole IL fleet with these seems to me way too costly, that's way I asked what the big advantage of them is to make it worth it and it's not like the fleet is in such a bad condition that we have to replace them all right now or?
On the other side, I would prefer replacing all IL 78 in a row with new and more capable MRTTs and th IL 78 could be converted back to normal transporters again. Double the number and the A330 could be much cheaper again right?

To be honest with you, given the size of IAF and the increasing number of aircrafts with the IN, I feel atleast 12-18 A330 type systems are needed in the medium term with an increase to 24+ as we reach 42-45 (+ 2-5 from IN) squadron strength! Il-78's will continue to serve IAF with no conversion for sometime to come. IAF desperately needs MAR's!!! The prices will not drop subtantially as A330 is a commercial platform with huge order book already in place and few extra birds make little difference. However, price should not be an issue IMHO.

I guess IAF plans to have dedicated flights to high altitude strips with its C-17's. The lack of road/rail infra makes it a good option for the time being! It would become vital if we face a war as we would be in a position to airlift entire infantry regiments quickly to the frontlines and turnaround for other ops quickly with low MTBO & man hour reqts.!
 
.
However, price should not be an issue IMHO.
I see it different! I think it was good that the finance ministry take a close look at such orders, only because we have the money and these toys are on offer, doesn't mean we really need and have to buy them!
Get some for exactly such stratigic airlift you pointed out, where normal aircrafts like the IL 76 can't be used, but there will be enough normal missions where such a costly aircraft are simply too much. So a similar high low mix like we hope for the fighters in future.
 
. . .
It is possible that IAF might go for Il-476 eventually (when it is available) but it makes no sense for the air force to wait around for russia to come up with its promises and let its capabilities languish!
Found this info on Defunct Humanity:

The name of the program is Il-476/ It's planned with^
1) Two pilots glass cabine
2) 60 t payload
3) PS-90A-76 engines with 15% more fuel efficiency
4) 2011 - flying tests and 2012 - starting deliver

The IL 476 is mainly a stretched and modernised version of the IL 76, only the internal systems will be new, whereas most of the airframe as well as the engines will be the same that we already use. So this is not a new development that will take much time, neither are our IL 76 fleet in such bad shape, to be replaced as soon as possible.

Wiki list of aircraft of the Indian Air Force says, we currently use 24 IL 76, with 17 of them for transport.
So going for 10-12 C17 and the same number of IL 476 in future, will be way more cost-effective than going just for C17 and will makes IAF less dependent too!
If one of the types is grounded due to technical problems, lack of spares..., the transport capability is not completely gone, because we still have a second alternative.

Btw, can anybody tell me if we have the facilities to build the PS 90 engines of our IL 76, which the MTA also will get in India, or do they always come from Russia?
 
.

Latest posts

Back
Top Bottom