India to decide on its role in Afghanistan: US

[RiazHaq]

Indians came in to Afghanistan after the US invasion and occupation. They are there because of the United States.
The day the Americans leave will be the last day for Indian presence in Afghanistan.
The Indians know it; that's why they want the Americans to stay and not negotiate with the Talibs.

Haq's Musings: Facts and Myths in Afghanistan Surge Debate

 

[idune]

So far indian role in Afghanistan has been use create terror network and direct them against its enemy Pakistan. All in guise of reconstruction and development and with active support of americans. Once american wind down their mission there is no support for indian free hand terror. Unless offcourse there are indian troops actively figting for its terror action in Pakistan. Does it sound more like a indian defence project? With indian afghan adventure costing (so far) over 1.2 billion to indian taxpayers, when 1400 indian farmers killed themselves because of lack of financial support. When indians don't even care about their own people death, using terrorism is so easy for indians.

 

[deckingraj]

So far indian role in Afghanistan has been use create terror network and direct them against its enemy Pakistan. All in guise of reconstruction and development and with active support of americans. Once american wind down their mission there is no support for indian free hand terror. Unless offcourse there are indian troops actively figting for its terror action in Pakistan. Does it sound more like a indian defence project? With indian afghan adventure costing (so far) over 1.2 billion to indian taxpayers, when 1400 indian farmers killed themselves because of lack of financial support. When indians don't even care about their own people death, using terrorism is so easy for indians.

Yes you are right....Using terrorism is so easy for Indians...However i just fail to understand why my stupid government is sending terrorist in Pakistan from Afghanistan...We can easily send them from Pakistan...After all we are only after Pakistani Blood be it in Balochistan or Be it in Lahore...

All in guise of reconstruction and development and with active support of americans. Once american wind down their mission there is no support for indian free hand terror.

May be because of Americans presence there...We might be trying to make our American Maters happy by killing people in Lawless regions of Pakistan..and once they go we will shift our focus to Lahore as without our Masters(US) poor Indians(Hindu's) have no guts to face mighty Pakistan in AF....Also with Bangladesh on other side ready to help Pakistani brothers New Delhi hardly have a chance....

Mr Idune if i have said everything right then please let other foolish indians talk about if India should get involved militarily in AF or not....

 

[deckingraj]

Indians came in to Afghanistan after the US invasion and occupation. They are there because of the United States.

Wrong India presence in AF was always there however during Taliban era it was more in shape of support for Northern Alliance...

The day the Americans leave will be the last day for Indian presence in Afghanistan.

All this $1.2 billion investment ..no of consulates...is not being done to leave Afghanistan the day Americans leave...Its been done to ensure India can stay once NATO leaves...Anyways seems like you have to learn a lot about Geo-Politics before we can have some meaningful discussions...Till then you can live in this bubble....

 

[EjazR]

The East Turkistan movement in Uighur regions is directed against the Chinese government is under the loose Al Qaeda umbrella. Being an atheist is actually worse for these people, remeber the Soviet union was the first country to be taken down by them? IF you are not an atheist, at least you believe in God so definitely much better than someone who says there is no God.

 

[gogbot]

self delete

 

[gogbot]

No doubt I will persevere till i get rid of it...However i will ensure that i invest on finding a different solution than to continue the same solution which hasn't worked...beacuase the other way around my house will fall one day(i might save it if i can find a solution) but if i continue the same way then i am only speedening up the dooms day.. what say??

Does it matter, we agree there is no way out of this situation then the complete and utter annihilation of the Taliban. And especially what they represent.

Frankly, no one has come up with a better way to this.

My logic we ruthlessly exterminate the Taliban, people wont want to join out of fear. we need to show resolve, make our enemy fear us.


Make an example of the Taliban to the rest of the world. to those like them.

 

[Iggy]

I know u said this in Context. And i agree with you given India's Current status and condition.

But how else can be defeat The Taliban, but to put our troops in harms way.
If the Afghan Mission Fails. IT just proves to the whole world, that terrorism can win.

A soldiers Life is always put in harms way, that's just the way it is.

There somethings that you just have to do, and exterminating the Taliban and what they represent is one of them. The Perversion of religion has resulted in more loss of Human then any other action on this planet.

2000 years of it and we have yet to learn.

we should not let it happen again.

The Consequences of Failure will be felt for decades i promise you.

Agreed on the last sentence..But tell in a condition like our will a political party will risk sending troops to another country??Its will be a political suicide for them and opposition will chew them saying that we surrendered ourself to US interest even if send our troops for protecting our interest..

We also win against taliban by winning peoples heart.No one can hold in to power for long with out the support of people..Soviet Union just shows us that... Taliban's is bunch of crazy people who only know to terrorize people ..do you think it will go on for ever??

And also we have to look at the current scenario of our neighboring country..They were the big supporter of Taliban in Afghanistan..Do you think the relation between them will be same as last time after Pakistan supported US against them ??

And also we have to take in to consideration of the emergence of TTP..Even if members here tell that they are different from that of Afghan Taliban you have to notice that their ideologies are alike and with Taliban came in to power in Afgan they will be strong supporters of TTP and it will be a strain in relations with Taliban and Pakistanis..

Considering all these I don't think Taliban in Afghan will hold on to power as they used to be in pre US invasion era

 

[deckingraj]

Does it matter, we agree there is no way out of this situation then the complete and utter annihilation of the Taliban. And especially what they represent.

I agree with the bolded part but not with the one prior to it... There is no way you can completely annihilate Taliban...It's just not possible...What you can definitely do is defeat them by making sure that Afghan people are strong enough to take care of them....They(Taliban) lack public support on a large level because of their gross in-humane rule of law and ruthlessness....However the biggest enemies of Afghanistan are Afghans themselves - Be it in shape of Taliban or corrupt war Lords..You got to break this menace for any effective solution...Infrastructure is one of many things that Afghanistan need badly to effectively show the writ of the govt....India's role in that front is readily accepted not only by Afghan's but by NATO as well...

Anyways i think we both are in agreement of India role in afghan militarily...the only point of disagreement is when is the right time for it....I wish that time never comes and NATO do the job for us...

Frankly, no one has come up with a better way to this.

You are absolutely right...However if go by latest developments things are moving in right directions...

My logic we ruthlessly exterminate the Taliban, people wont want to join out of fear. we need to show resolve, make our enemy fear us.

If history is of any indication Afghanistan is one place where Force don't work...Be is Russian Invasion or NATO forces operations from last 8 years and still ON....Frankly the only way out is self-sufficiency of Afghans when it comes to their security and i welcome US current move in that regard....

Now when it comes to India i believe she should quadrouple the amount and effort she is putting in training Afghan Military and improving their infrastructure(like better communication system..command etc etc) apart from other civilian reforms that she is party to...

Make an example of the Taliban to the rest of the world. to those like them.

Agreed.....However by what medium is a point to debate....

 

[deckingraj]

Agreed on the last sentence..But tell in a condition like our will a political party will risk sending troops to another country??Its will be a political suicide for them and opposition will chew them saying that we surrendered ourself to US interest even if send our troops for protecting our interest..

Seiko my friend it is not just a matter of Indian political parties chewing the government...If public support is with the government than they don't need to worry...However the debate is if we are convinced it's the right move???

We also win against taliban by winning peoples heart.No one can hold in to power for long with out the support of people..Soviet Union just shows us that... Taliban's is bunch of crazy people who only know to terrorize people ..do you think it will go on for ever??

And also we have to look at the current scenario of our neighboring country..They were the big supporter of Taliban in Afghanistan..Do you think the relation between them will be same as last time after Pakistan supported US against them ??

And also we have to take in to consideration of the emergence of TTP..Even if members here tell that they are different from that of Afghan Taliban you have to notice that their ideologies are alike and with Taliban came in to power in Afgan they will be strong supporters of TTP and it will be a strain in relations with Taliban and Pakistanis..

Considering all these I don't think Taliban in Afghan will hold on to power as they used to be in pre US invasion era

Not going into your overall argument however

- Be rest assured no one will allow Taliban to come back to power again...This will simply make a fool of US and NATO 8 years long operation(and many more years to go)...

- Let's say for the sake of argument they do come to power again then there would be strain between TTP and Taliban and not the other way around...In fact they will use their same ideology card to pacify TTP and can result in some sort of deal between PAK and TTP..However i don't see anything like this happening even in foreseable future......My point is that Taliban would not strain relations with only country(Pakistan) that will support it(though given the world sentiments against Taliban even that is highly unlikely)...

 

[TheBraveHeart]

Seiko my friend it is not just a matter of Indian political parties chewing the government...If public support is with the government than they don't need to worry...However the debate is if we are convinced it's the right move???

I guess there won't be any public support that involves entering afghan militarily. Remember 26/11, there wasn't even 40% support on attacking terrorist camps in Pakistan...so..by that logic.......Also political parties will certainly make irrelevant points and make a mockery of any decision...

- Be rest assured no one will allow Taliban to come back to power again...This will simply make a fool of US and NATO 8 years long operation(and many more years to go)...

Same was said about USSR and we all saw what happened,
my guess is US will withdraw but not completely and continue with the operation on a limited scale. But no one can predict what happens tomorrow.

- Let's say for the sake of argument they do come to power again then there would be strain between TTP and Taliban and not the other way around...In fact they will use their same ideology card to pacify TTP and can result in some sort of deal between PAK and TTP..However i don't see anything like this happening even in foreseable future......My point is that Taliban would not strain relations with only country(Pakistan) that will support it(though given the world sentiments against Taliban even that is highly unlikely)...

I guess instead of strained relationship there would be enhanced co-operation since it will be termed as a victory. Also they may find many more recruits and enhance there scope as happened in 1990 to take revenge and India being the closest may suffer directly....So its imperative that the only solution to the mess is a firm Afghan govt.

 

[deckingraj]

I guess there won't be any public support that involves entering afghan militarily. Remember 26/11, there wasn't even 40% support on attacking terrorist camps in Pakistan...so..by that logic.......Also political parties will certainly make irrelevant points and make a mockery of any decision...

Exactly...that''w what the debate is about...Does it make sense to send our troops in AF...My point only if NATO is deperate and loosing...Even though there is feel the right way is to make AF more self-sufficient as far as their security is concerned...

Same was said about USSR and we all saw what happened,
my guess is US will withdraw but not completely and continue with the operation on a limited scale. But no one can predict what happens tomorrow.

Exactly...That's what i mean by saying no-one will allow taliban to come back...Not sure if you agree or disagree but the overall exercise will be fruitless if that happens...During russian era it was another super-power which was preventing a complete Russian victory...Here there is no big direct/covert opposition to NATO...However the entire exercise won't give us desired results unless and until AF take over with NATO secondary supporters...

I guess instead of strained relationship there would be enhanced co-operation since it will be termed as a victory.

Enhanced co-opreation between whom?? TTP and Taliban or Taliban and PAK....I will reply based on your answer...

Also they may find many more recruits and enhance there scope as happened in 1990 to take revenge and India being the closest may suffer directly....

Here the game changes...Let's say somehow Talian again win AF...Do you think world will recognize Taliban??? Now it will be very hard for Pakistan to risk international isolation and recognize Taliban again the way they did earlier...But i do agree with your overall point of direct impact to our interest and thus its imperative GOI should do whatever she can to stop Taliban taking over..We are debating on the means and medium as per current situation...

So its imperative that the only solution to the mess is a firm Afghan govt.

Bingo....

 

[TheBraveHeart]

Exactly...That's what i mean by saying no-one will allow taliban to come back...Not sure if you agree or disagree but the overall exercise will be fruitless if that happens...During russian era it was another super-power which was preventing a complete Russian victory...Here there is no big direct/covert opposition to NATO...However the entire exercise won't give us desired results unless and until AF take over with NATO secondary supporters...

Frankly speaking I believe the invasion has been fruitless right from the start and the war escalating day by day...If US with more than 140,000 troops on ground with 4lacs afghan soldiers all equipped with latest weapons, aircrafts, helos cann't win how can covert/overt operations be successful?? Also during this period the taliban lacked support from any other country but will surely get covert support in the least from a few countries...u may know the names...

Enhanced co-opreation between whom?? TTP and Taliban or Taliban and PAK....I will reply based on your answer...

Both Sir, but on different levels, one overt the other cover...

Here the game changes...Let's say somehow Talian again win AF...Do you think world will recognize Taliban??? Now it will be very hard for Pakistan to risk international isolation and recognize Taliban again the way they did earlier...

Not as hard as current situation...remember Pakistan hasn't taken active part against taliban till now, what it is fighting is just who attack its interest and a few others to appease the US....Everyone except Pakistan say Osama and mullah omer in Pakistan but they deny, so have they been isolated??? No Sir, after all its politics, if u play wisely u may never win but also never loose..they are very good at it!!!

 

[Solomon2]

Doubtless if America leaves Afghanistan without sufficiently fixing matters the area will become a battleground between India and Pakistan - unless they decide to cooperate. Why not begin by letting Pakistanis monitor some of India's economic initiatives in Afghanistan?

 

[deckingraj]

I am getting an inclination that we are debating even though we kind of have same opinions...So please let me know if you think otherwise...

Frankly speaking I believe the invasion has been fruitless right from the start and the war escalating day by day...If US with more than 140,000 troops on ground with 4lacs afghan soldiers all equipped with latest weapons, aircrafts, helos cann't win how can covert/overt operations be successful?? Also during this period the taliban lacked support from any other country but will surely get covert support in the least from a few countries...u may know the names...

I am saying there are no big covert/overt operations to oppose NATO and thus it cannot be compared as such with Russian era when US was involved in defeating them......I know the names however their help is not enough to defeat the NATO..The only thing that can defeat NATO is they themselves...However after Obama things have changed atleast at the diplomatic level and now with more troops hopefully it will follow up at ground level as well...Keep watching how the pressure will keep on mounting for those who are helping Taliban covertly...

Both Sir, but on different levels, one overt the other cover...

No body unless and until Afghan Taliban bring in some truce between Pak and TTP both can't be possible...But yeah i agree eventually this will happen if Taliban comes to power in AF...Something that i said to Sieko...

Not as hard as current situation...remember Pakistan hasn't taken active part against taliban till now, what it is fighting is just who attack its interest and a few others to appease the US....Everyone except Pakistan say Osama and mullah omer in Pakistan but they deny, so have they been isolated??? No Sir, after all its politics, if u play wisely u may never win but also never loose..they are very good at it!!!

Wait a minute...Are you saying Pakistan is playing its game wisely??? You can't be serious...TTP has come into equation because of their failure handling this issue properly...i am not even talking about the credibility loss that they are facing.....They are on paper in agreement with US and NATO allies to get rid of terrorists(read taliban and al-qaeda)..not very sure about the intent(know most would disagree)...What would be the situation had they choosen otherwise...International Isolation or may be US strikes(more potent than Drones)...Also thats where Obama bring in the change...All from Karry-Luger's to separate ****** policy - Hillary Clinton saying inside Pak that she can't believe the administration don't know where al-qaeda is - Pak offensive agaisnt TTP etc etc...What does that indicate?? To me it indicates there is a realization in US that they have been taken for a ride here...

Also my point about Isolation was if for some reason Taliban win do you think Pakistan can go against world sentiments and recognize Taliban govt??? they will deal with them covertly but not on international front...

Anyways i think we are going Off-Topic...so i rest my case here...If you have something to add about India's military involvement please feel free to do so...I will be more than happy to reply...

Regards