India to buy 60-63 Rafales jets off the shelf from France; MMRCA deal off:

[Skull and Bones]

Wasn't a big point of the MMRCA to reduce dependency on Russian imports?

That's the big reason why Russian planes weren't chosen, despite being arguably much more cost-efficient.

Russian planes comes with their own shortfall, MKIs have an availability rate of 55-60%, it would be much lower if Chinese are using their own engines. Rafale exceeds 80% availability rate, and that can be a crucial factor in a time of crisis. On top of that, no official claim stated that IAF is looking to diversify their portfolio, or they wouldn't have invited Mig-35 in the competition. It's all media statements. Mig-35 was discarded because it failed on few crucial parameters, and it's low powered engine.

Even Egypt discarded Mig-35s after evaluation, and went for Rafale. What does that tell you?

 

[cerberus]

Lol i wouldnt hold my breath. By the time these fighters arrive after Indian negotiations, the world will be flying 6th generation fighters.

Lol due know what gto g transaction is

It will come on 2 years as quoted by DM himself.

 

[Skull and Bones]

@Gabriel92 - Can you be a good chap and place a tracker on each of these Rafales so that wherever they are....we know about that and we can shoot them down !

How you suppose to pay the French for this benevolent gesture?

 

[Armstrong]

How you suppose to pay the French for this benevolent gesture?

@Gabriel92 is my Brother - Thats how !

Though hes said numerous times that Business is Business !

Maybe if I threaten to scrap the Eiffel Tower for metal; he'd listen !

 

[Malik Alashter]

Well here is what the Russian ambassador in New Delhi said:

Rafale Fighters India is Buying Can't Match Chinese Fighters: Russian Envoy - NDTV

Rafale can be shot down like 'mosquitoes by Chinese-made Sukhoi': Russian envoy - AniNews.in

Granted, the Russian ambassador has reasons to say this, however the answer is yes we do have plenty of answers to the Rafale or any other plane that can be sent against us. And we have significant numbers of 4th generation fighters, far more than India has.

Not mentioning the J-20 or J-31 since those are 5th generation platforms.

Is it the J-10B or the J-11 is the equevelent to the Rafale I read some where Chinese thinks j-10B as good as the Rafale is that right.

 

[Chinese-Dragon]

Russian planes comes with their own shortfall, MKIs have an availability rate of 55-60%, it would be much lower if Chinese are using their own engines. Rafale exceeds 80% availability rate, and that can be a crucial factor in a time of crisis. On top of that, no official claim stated that IAF is looking to diversify their portfolio, or they wouldn't have invited Mig-35 in the competition. It's all media statements. Mig-35 was discarded because it failed on few crucial parameters, and it's low powered engine.

Even Egypt discarded Mig-35s after evaluation, and went for Rafale. What does that tell you?

From what I've read, India doesn't want to be too reliant on Russian imports (due in part to previous massive price hikes and other concerns), or the Eurofighter which is manufactured by a consortium of European nations, any one of which could end up having political problems with India (i.e. Italy) and thus be a political constraint.

America would have similar problems (though even France cancelled the Mistral contract with Russia due to American pressure).

So politics definitely plays a part.

See when Turkey chose the Chinese SAM system over all the NATO systems (even though Turkey hates us due to Uyghur issues). Politics, etc.

 

[RiazHaq]

Wasn't a big point of the MMRCA to reduce dependency on Russian imports?

That's one of the main reasons why Russian planes weren't chosen, despite being arguably much more cost-efficient.

If the IAF can't maintain the Russian Sukhois, it'll have an even harder time keeping Rafales operational. That's why it's being rejected by many nations. Why Rafale is a Big Mistake -The New Indian Express

 

[SamantK]

From what I've read, India doesn't want to be too reliant on Russian imports (due in part to previous massive price hikes), or the Eurofighter which is manufactured by a consortium of European nations, any one of which could end up having political problems with India (i.e. Italy) and thus be a political constraint.

America would have similar problems (though even France cancelled the Mistral contract with Russia due to American pressure).

So politics definitely plays a part.

See when Turkey chose the Chinese SAM system over all the NATO systems (even though Turkey hates us due to Uyghur issues). Politics, etc.

The geopolitical implications was the one thing which IAF wanted to be kept out of the MMRCA and even St Anthony gave in to this demand.

Your argument only hinges on to that fact.

The Swiss AF also evaluate Gripen, Eurofighter and Rafale and gave the same assessment that Rafale stood on top even when it was without HMS

Please see the page 1 and 2 both summarise the Rafale on top.

http://files.newsnetz.ch/upload//1/...85d4f4ee253e53=0&bcsi_scan_filename=12332.pdf

If the IAF can't maintain the Russian Sukhois, it'll have an even harder time keeping Rafales operational. That's why it's being rejected by many nations. Why Rafale is a Big Mistake -The New Indian Express

Bharat Karnad
He writes bullshit and all the defence experts which I have read discredit him.

IAF is maintaining Mirages so well that they kicked Pakistani arse in the Kargil war, so please buzz off

 

[ares]

If the IAF can't maintain the Russian Sukhois, it'll have an even harder time keeping Rafales operational. That's why it's being rejected by many nations. Why Rafale is a Big Mistake -The New Indian Express

IAF maintains French Mirages and British Jaguars just fine.

 

[kaykay]

If the IAF can't maintain the Russian Sukhois, it'll have an even harder time keeping Rafales operational. That's why it's being rejected by many nations. Why Rafale is a Big Mistake -The New Indian Express

LOLs so IAF couldn't maintain MKIs still they went for 130 more of them from 140 to 270? Dont make fool of your self. IAF was extremely happy with MKIs and Mirages and so will be with Rafale.

 

[Tshering22]

Wasn't a big point of the MMRCA to reduce dependency on Russian imports?

That's one of the main reasons why Russian planes weren't chosen, despite being arguably much more cost-efficient.

Yes you are right.

We could have simply ordered additions 270+ MKIs. It would have made HAL comfortable, pilots relaxed and even Russians happier than ever because MKIs are something everyone in IAF and HAL know about.

Rafale was needed as a replacement and complement to Mirages as well as not keeping all eggs in one basket.

By ordering a larger lot directly, we have come to re-negotiate the terms of contract by increasing the order, therefore pressing France to agree with TOT in a separate contract. Considering that India and Egypt are the only countries ordering them, the focus to supply us better would be high.

 

[RiazHaq]

The geopolitical implications was the one thing which IAF wanted to be kept out of the MMRCA and even St Anthony gave in to this demand.

Your argument only hinges on to that fact.

The Swiss AF also evaluate Gripen, Eurofighter and Rafale and gave the same assessment that Rafale stood on top even when it was without HMS

Please see the page 1 and 2 both summarise the Rafale on top.

http://files.newsnetz.ch/upload//1/...85d4f4ee253e53=0&bcsi_scan_filename=12332.pdf


Bharat Karnad
He writes bullshit and all the defence experts which I have read discredit him.

IAF is maintaining Mirages so well that they kicked Pakistani arse in the Kargil war, so please buzz off

Nonsense!! There was no air war in Kargil. And India suffered massive casualties at the hands of a few LET fighters with light arms. Here's how Japanese journalist Yoichi Shimatsu of Japan Times saw it: "In an attack on the strategic town of Kargil in late spring 1999, Lashkar broke through India’s alpine defense line and came close to forcing New Delhi to the negotiating table"....." Along the sawtooth LoC, Lashkar is respected by professional soldiers on both side. A Pakistani hero who fought on the Baltistan heights, Corporal Ahmed, told me of his admiration for the stoicism of these jihadis, who wore sandals to battle in the snow. At a checkpoint in Indian-controlled Kargil, an army captain wearing a Sikh turban said frankly that nobody in the Indian Army could fight man-to-man against Lashkar." Haq's Musings: Solving the Mumbai Attacks Puzzle

LOLs so IAF couldn't maintain MKIs still they went for 130 more of them from 140 to 270? Dont make fool of your self. IAF was extremely happy with MKIs and Mirages and so will be with Rafale.

30% of them are down at any given time. The entire fleet has been grounded several times; India plays safe, grounds entire Sukhoi-30 fleet

 

[SamantK]

Nonsense!! There was no air war in Kargil. And India suffered massive casualties at the hands of a few LET fighters with light arms. Here's how Japanese journalist Yoichi Shimatsu of Japan Times saw it: "In an attack on the strategic town of Kargil in late spring 1999, Lashkar broke through India’s alpine defense line and came close to forcing New Delhi to the negotiating table" Haq's Musings: Solving the Mumbai Attacks Puzzle



30% of them are down at any given time. The entire fleet has been grounded several times; India plays safe, grounds entire Sukhoi-30 fleet

Few LeT fighters which were owned by your Army

There goes your article down the drain.

30% su-30 MKI down with serviceability of 50-55% is impressive, we have covered 20-25% of the gap

 

[Chanakya's_Chant]

Nonsense!! There was no air war in Kargil. And India suffered massive casualties at the hands of a few LET fighters with light arms. Here's how Japanese journalist Yoichi Shimatsu of Japan Times saw it: "In an attack on the strategic town of Kargil in late spring 1999, Lashkar broke through India’s alpine defense line and came close to forcing New Delhi to the negotiating table" Haq's Musings: Solving the Mumbai Attacks Puzzle

So those 453 soldiers and officers of Pakistani Army who were killed during the conflict were also a part of the terrorist outfit LeT? What a disgrace to equate them with terrorists.

Pakistan lists Kargil war dead - The Hindu

It took you 11 odd years to accept that those slaughtered on the Kargil heights were your soldiers - let alone those whose dead bodies you refused to accept - what a shame!

Rediff On The NeT: Pakistan refuses to take even officers' bodies

 

[RiazHaq]

Few LeT fighters which were owned by your Army

There goes your article down the drain.

30% su-30 MKI down with serviceability of 50-55% is impressive, we have covered 20-25% of the gap

How would Rafale or any other modern fighter help India Air Force pilots who are fratricidal...unable to distinguish between friend and foe, according to USAF officer at Redflag

The IAF has problems with its Russian jet engines
Indian pilots were prone to fratricide – shooting down friendly aircraft
The IAF required 60-second intervals between takeoffs, compared with half that for other air forces
The American F-15 can defeat the Su-30MKI, the most advanced fighter in the Su-30 series
IAF not keen on 1 vs 1 dogfights with the USAF.


Dissecting a dogfight: Sukhoi vs USAF at Red Flag 2008 | Russia & India Report