India to buy 60-63 Rafales jets off the shelf from France; MMRCA deal off:

[cerberus]

Neither him nor me! Get as much infos from as many sources and get to you own conclusions. You won't find it that difficult to find official sources that Dassault produces 11 fighters a year and that they need 3 years to build a Rafale. Or that the F3+ was meant to be produced only till the end of 2017, followed by the new F3R standard. Check that and you know, that the DM's statement doesn't hold it's own without some changes (increased production rate or including fighters that will be produced in 2018).



Yes AESA will be available, but honestly not a game changer when you have the BARS radar in huge numbers in the fleet too. It's more modern tech wise than the PESA, but that's it. The lack of METEOR is just a short term problem and the MICA IR + SPECTRA / FSO combo is imo equally important, but we need HMS and IRST to get the most of the Rafale.

Thanks for the guidance

 

[Riaz Hussain]

Lol i wouldnt hold my breath. By the time these fighters arrive after Indian negotiations, the world will be flying 6th generation fighters.

 

[Speeder 2]

Indians say that India will buy (...) . The final prices are still to be negotiated, just like the good 'n old time...

100 pages!

 

[PARIKRAMA]

Thanks for the guidance

@sancho



Pasting info posted by Olybrius in a seperate forum which is what Snacho had also posted in Main Rafale thread for easier understanding

* Only 4 aircrafts are planned for the french military in 2016 and none the following years:

Recettes exceptionnelles et exportation du Rafale : des paris à 10 milliards pour boucler le budget

Taking into account deliveries to Egypt (According to Air&cosmos)
2015: 6
2016: 5
2017: 5
2018: 5
2019: 3

In theory, 6 Rafale/year would be available for India from 2016 + n additionnal Rafale each year due to increased production.

2016 - 6
2017 - 6
thus 12 meaning 24 left
Unless Dassault produces additional 12 birds with increased productivity or may be more production they wont be able to meet the 2017 timeline

 

[Malik Alashter]

If they are all built in France, what happens to the ToT?

Do you have a fighter that can match the Rafale?.

This is not a troll as I don't respect trolling just to know thanks.

 

[RISING SUN]

Arihant is already completed and we are doing fine with the 83MW pressurized reactor.....even we are making an 125MW reactor AFAIK .....
I don't know what you said is true or just speculation

On Rafale......I think since its a G2G deal we can make certain changes.......if what you said is true then we will hear something about the 2 deals together.....if they keep it separate then it's as good as scrapped

FYI Arihant reactor working at 70 mw steam power is really fantastic against 85 mw steam power of Nerpa. Nerpa is 8000 ton while Arihant is 6000 ton only. Do your math and see what you find out. Thank you.

 

[PARIKRAMA]

FYI Arihant reactor working at 70 mw steam power is really fantastic against 85 mw steam power of Nerpa. Nerpa is 8000 ton while Arihant is 6000 ton only. Do your math and see what you find out. Thank you.

Nerpa 85? I thot its 190..
Yes it is 190 Mw
The reconditioned Russian leased Chakra with 190MW nuclear power plant............
..:: India Strategic ::. Navy: Indian Navy inducts n-powered attack submarine INS Chakra

Steam turbine is 43000 hp of course

 

[Skull and Bones]

And we were missing you too, @RiazHaq

 

[anant_s]

And we were missing you too, @RiazHaq

Don't tempt, some musing might be on their way!

 

[Odysseus]

@cerberus, @sancho
This report clearly states that the Rafales are going to be in par with the Indian standard and will be delivered with in the stipulated schedule.

Hollande to hold high-level meeting today over Rafale jets sale to India.

Paris/New Delhi: French President Francois Hollande would chair a high-level meeting in Paris on Monday to thrash out the finer details of the nearly $5 billion deal for the sale of 36 Rafale jets to India in flyaway conditions.French sources said the meeting at the Elysee Palace would be held between Hollande, his top officials and executives from Dassault Aviation, the manufacturers of the Rafale jets.

Prime Minister Narendra Modi, who concluded his four-day visit to France on Sunday, had asked the country to supply 36 Rafale jets in flyaway conditions as soon as possible in view of the critical operational necessity of the Indian Air Force (IAF). The deal would be between the two governments."There was nobody, either from Indian side or the French side, when the two leaders spoke about the Rafale. Everyone would be briefed in detail on Monday about what transpired and discussions would be held on how it can be taken forward," sources said.

Defence Minister Manohar Parrikar has said that the 36 Rafale fighter jets would be inducted into the IAF in two years. Sources said that two years is a fair time as a final contract needs to be negotiated and signed while production of planes will also take time.The capacity of the Dassault plant is 36 aircraft per anum and the Indian version of the aircraft will have to be fine-tuned as per its requirement."

The French already have an order from Egypt for 24 Rafale jets which has to be also delivered as soon as possible" sources said, pointing out that specific timelines will have to be worked out.

One of the options that is being looked at is putting on hold the order for the French military and diverting them to meet India's immediate requirements.

Another issue that will come up for discussion is the pricing and also if the French government will be providing a tax holiday or some other concession to Dassault to bring down the prices of the aircraft for India.Modi and Hollande had agreed to conclude an Inter-Governmental Agreement for supply of the aircraft on terms that would be better than conveyed by Dassault Aviation as part of a separate process underway, which is the MMRCA tender.

The delivery would be in time-frame that would be compatible with the operational requirement of IAF and the aircraft and associated systems and weapons would be delivered on the same configuration as had been tested and approved by IAF, and with a longer maintenance responsibility by France, a joint statement had said.

The general belief in France is that the order for 36 aircraft is different from the MMRCA tender for 126 aircraft which they believe will continue to be negotiated. It is not yet clear if the 36 jets are in addition to the MMRCA deal or whether it would be adjusted within the framework of the ongoing talks.Under the original deal, 18 were to be bought off the shelf while 108 were to be manufactured by state-run Hindustan Aeronautics Limited (HAL). The talks have been stuck over pricing and Dassault's refusal to stand guarantee for the jets to be manufactured by HAL.While initially the MMRCA contract was valued at about $10 billion, it has now shot over $20 billion.

The Request for Information for a Medium Multi-Role Combat Aircraft was issued in 2001 and a Request for Proposal was issued in 2007. Rafale was shortlisted in 2012.Officials from the Indian Defence Ministry as well as the IAF could not elaborate much about the deal for 36 Rafale jets saying it is being worked out by the Prime Minister's Office. While the 36 Rafale jets would be a shot in the arm of the IAF, it will not be able to counter the dwindling air power of the force.While the sanctioned strength of the IAF is 42 Squadrons, it is currently equipped with only 34.Adding to the trouble is the phasing out of the ageing MiG 21s and MiG 27s in the coming years. Their draw-down is scheduled to start in 2017 but sources indicated that it might be extended for another year."There is a serious problem as new planes need to be inducted to make up for the phasing out. Then new planes are also needed to boost up our strength to the desired levels," Defence sources in New Delhi said.TAP

Parrikar had said that the deal struck with France for purchase of 36 Rafale fighter jets will bring some "oxygen" to the IAF.IAF has been banking on the Rafale, the indigenously developed Light Combat Aircraft -- Dhruv, and the Fifth Generation Fighter Aircraft deal with Russia, all the three of which are running behind schedule.

 

[Skull and Bones]

Don't tempt, some musing might be on their way!

I'd love to chew on some Mushings, his heartburn after the successful Mars mission still puts a smile on my face.

 

[Chinese-Dragon]

Do you have a fighter that can match the Rafale?.

This is not a troll as I don't respect trolling just to know thanks.

Well here is what the Russian ambassador in New Delhi said:

Rafale Fighters India is Buying Can't Match Chinese Fighters: Russian Envoy - NDTV

Rafale can be shot down like 'mosquitoes by Chinese-made Sukhoi': Russian envoy - AniNews.in

Granted, the Russian ambassador has reasons to say this, however the answer is yes we do have plenty of answers to the Rafale or any other plane that can be sent against us. And we have significant numbers of 4th generation fighters, far more than India has.

Not mentioning the J-20 or J-31 since those are 5th generation platforms.

 

[Skull and Bones]

Well here is what the Russian ambassador in New Delhi said:

Rafale Fighters India is Buying Can't Match Chinese Fighters: Russian Envoy - NDTV

Rafale can be shot down like 'mosquitoes by Chinese-made Sukhoi': Russian envoy , AniNews.in

Granted, the Russian ambassador has reasons to say this, however the answer is yes we do have plenty of answers to the Rafale or any other plane that can be sent against us. And we have significant numbers of 4th generation fighters, far more than India has.

Not mentioning the J-20 or J-31 since those are 5th generation platforms.

Indian Su-30MKIs are equally capable as our Chinese counterparts, if not more. Don't you think IAF may have equated the apparent advantage of Rafales over the Sukhois in the evaluation stage, in a possible confrontation?

 

[Armstrong]

@Gabriel92 - Can you be a good chap and place a tracker on each of these Rafales so that wherever they are....we know about that and we can shoot them down !

 

[Chinese-Dragon]

Indian Su-30MKIs are equally capable as our Chinese counterparts, if not more. Don't you think IAF may have equated the apparent advantage of Rafales over the Sukhois in the evaluation stage, in a possible confrontation?

Wasn't a big point of the MMRCA to reduce dependency on Russian imports?

That's one of the main reasons why Russian planes weren't chosen, despite being arguably much more cost-efficient.