India to buy 347 T-90 tanks for Rs 4,900 cr

[Keysersoze]

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If atleast 50% of the components are designed/manufactured locally, the product can be called as indigeneous. It would be wrong to call AK as a pakistani tank because it is designed and developed by China. Thomas Alva Edison knew 999 reasons WHY bulb filament is make like it is. But others only know 1 way how it is made. R&D is something similar. You can only duplicate AK, but we can modify Arjun to get Tank-Ex. If you say that you have designed AK we can say we have designed T-90, but both statements are stupid, but the difference is, we dont make stupid statements. And please dont boast about your scientists, did you ever think how a country which has never launched a satellite itself can design missiles which re-enter from space. This itself shows that they have imported the missiles. LOL

Also Tank-EX is simply a re-work of the existing hardware to get around the problem of transporting Arjun in the existing Indian infrastructure.
> Tank-Ex is specifically designed to reduce the weight of Arjun which is the prime concern, as it affects the mobility.

Yes, the Indian Army is reluctant to induct the Arjun because of technical issues, this is a good sign, it indicates that we prefer quality weapons. Not like Jf-17. LoL.

And if you say T-90 is equally powerful as T-72, it only shows your technical in-expertise.

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Please, check out the research paper on Arjun at below link:
http://www.ipcs.org/IPCS-Special-Report-23.pdf
It says more than 50% of Arjun's components are imported, hence if we go by your formulae, Arjun is definately not an indigenous tank.
You have all the right to reject the paper by saying it a piece of trash or a writer is a lier.

I object, OFF Topic. Please, choose relevant threads for your valueable notes.

See how **** you are. You talk about Arjun in a forum started for T-90 purchase and you object for off topic. lol

Please read the threads properly before making comments, that was a reply to someone else's comment. BTW, its seems that you agree that JF-17 is low quality product.!!

BTW, if there is another war, I am waiting for Alkhalid Nagar to be created. Have you heard of patton Nagar?
Khemkaran - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

I am sure some coward will suggest deleting this reply. Thats what you are!!

You just showed you are even more!

If you want me to name imported products like you....
We have the T-90 and Sukhoi 30 MKI's which are more than a match and will eat those little kids.

PAK-FA you seem to think that calling other member stupid somehow changes facts and makes you right. However I will point out a few things (which I suggest you take on board before you take a break from posting in this thread (leave it to your more erudite colleagues)

1) Tank ex has been as always has been a T-72 chassis and sticking a Arjun turret on it. SO it has a heavier turret with a larger gun on a torsion bar suspension. From everything I have read on it it was a failure. Otherwise there would be no need to order a thousand new tanks.

2)The whole quality weapons comment made me laugh though. It seems that you are prepared to wait until the army has No weapons left until they even look at something new. At that point it won't really matter if the enemy drives in on a carnival float because the IA will be waiting for their quality weapons to show up

3)Don't try to doubt the technical credentials of others, when all you spout is patent nonsense.

 

[EagleEyes]

So the Arjun is finally a failure. It is much more cost-effective and better to go for T-90s. They rule!

 

[aryan2007]

So the Arjun is finally a failure. It is much more cost-effective and better to go for T-90s. They rule!

The tests will determine whether the tank will have any significant role in the armoured force of the future.
If the Army opinion stems in Arjun’s favour, the DRDO could end up with a total order in the range of 250 tanks. Already, an order for 124 is on paper, of which 14 have been delivered.

DNA - India - Will Arjun stand the desert test? - Daily News & Analysis

India needed a tank for itself developed indigenously due to the prevalent political climate at the time, Cold War, Nam, sanctions etc.
Though I believe with 32 years of development, budget overruns, specification changes, new technological changes, inexperience, sanctions, developing from scratch, globalisation, booming economy etc. Arjun was not ever going to be a spectacular success as India had not envisaged such a change in the global environment. It is a project management (achieving specifications") failure but an R&D success.


DRDO with valuable lessons from Arjun and its shortcomings and also by studying(Rev Engg.??) the latest Russian Tanks can hopefully now develop a next gen Tank for the future needs as and when they arrive, there is no need to develop a new tank from grounds up.


I again believe India should do away with "indigenous" production rather go in for joint production with Israel and or Russia and also seek European help since these countries already are more experienced and technologically advanced than us and can give us excellent sub-systems possibly with T-o-T.


This will boost our R&D and know-how and then later if the need be go in for indigenous production which at present is akin to committing hara-kiri for India.

 

[EagleEyes]

The tests will determine whether the tank will have any significant role in the armoured force of the future.
If the Army opinion stems in Arjun’s favour, the DRDO could end up with a total order in the range of 250 tanks. Already, an order for 124 is on paper, of which 14 have been delivered.

I dont think 124 will be followed. Arjun project is dead.

However, i agree with the rest of your post.

Whatever the R&D success was to happen. Is done.

 

[blain2]

I again believe India should do away with "indigenous" production rather go in for joint production with Israel and or Russia and also seek European help since these countries already are more experienced and technologically advanced than us and can give us excellent sub-systems possibly with T-o-T.


This will boost our R&D and know-how and then later if the need be go in for indigenous production which at present is akin to committing hara-kiri for India.

I concur with this as well. All out Indigenous production is a thing of the past. Given the geo-political situation and the expenses involved in high technology development, even the most industrialized countries are going for joint collaboration. Only the US remains as the dominant go-it-alone player in the high-tech arena. Nobody in UK is losing sleep over the fact that the Typhoon they are flying includes 30% of the parts, subsystems made by the Germans or the French etc. etc. I go back to my point, I have absolutely no problems taking a good design and producing/assembling it in-country if it meets the requirements of the armed forces.

Indian Armed Forces would be better served by DRDO really teaming up instead of letting running a mock on this indigenous effort. Israelis have developed basic systems on their own and with ToT they have improved. Most of the major Israeli programs have had funding from the US or some sort of research collaboration for them to be successful. This is the model to emulate. Not the go it alone one.

 

[KENT]

NEW DELHI: The Indian Army has quietly begun rigorous tests of the indigenous Arjun tank in the deserts of Rajasthan. The tests will determine whether the tank will have any significant role in the armoured force of the future.

Trials of two Arjuns, developed by the Defence Research and Development Organisation (DRDO) over three decades, are on in the Mahajan field ranges. The trials were to officially begin on Monday.

The DRDO has supplied 14 Arjuns to the Army, of which two are being put to test. These trials are officially supposed to reveal the spare parts requirement to maintain the tanks. DRDO officials are holding their breath.

“They could also raise innumerable objections,” admitted a DRDO scientist. The trials are to go on for about a month, at the end of which Arjun’s future would be known.

If the Army opinion stems in Arjun’s favour, the DRDO could end up with a total order in the range of 250 tanks. Already, an order for 124 is on paper, of which 14 have been delivered.

The Army has kept another 124 “vacant” while going in for a fresh round of T-90 tank purchase a few days ago. India and Russia have signed an approximately $1bn contract for purchase of 347 more T-90 tanks. This is besides the total T-90 order of 310 from Russia and the 1,000 being produced in India at the Heavy Vehicle Factory in Avadi.

Even as the new contract for 347 Russian tanks was placed, the Army has kept the option of another 124 tanks open. If Arjun passes the test, the indigenous tank could be ordered.

Hoping for it, the DRDO is working overtime to develop second-generation Arjuns that could fire own missiles and withstand enemy missile attacks.

The DRDO has in the past successfully fired Israeli missile Lahat from Arjun, but now is confident of developing an indigenous missile that could hit targets over 4km away over the next two years.

Preliminary firings have been conducted. “Now, we will go try with guidance and over the next two years, we should be ready with it,” said a source.

 

[KENT]

I concur with this as well. All out Indigenous production is a thing of the past. Given the geo-political situation and the expenses involved in high technology development, even the most industrialized countries are going for joint collaboration. Only the US remains as the dominant go-it-alone player in the high-tech arena. Nobody in UK is losing sleep over the fact that the Typhoon they are flying includes 30% of the parts, subsystems made by the Germans or the French etc. etc. I go back to my point, I have absolutely no problems taking a good design and producing/assembling it in-country if it meets the requirements of the armed forces.

Indian Armed Forces would be better served by DRDO really teaming up instead of letting running a mock on this indigenous effort. Israelis have developed basic systems on their own and with ToT they have improved. Most of the major Israeli programs have had funding from the US or some sort of research collaboration for them to be successful. This is the model to emulate. Not the go it alone one.

Analysis of state of defence production industry of some of developed country like US, UK, Sweden suggested that necessary pust to influx the defence production have accomplished by large scale participation of Private Sector Industry in massive production of Arms and Ammunition. Whereas in India, the participation of Civil industry is almost negligible.

 

[JK!]

Arjun MKII is a project, by which Indians are absorbing Israeli, German and Russian technology. This is kind of creating a technology base. It should reduce our dependence on Russia or sanction from USA...

Ah we have a wolf in sheeps clothing.

You might want to change your flag newbie.

 

[solid snake]

I know, why this battle is hotting up...After years of isolation, India is exposed to French and Israeli technologies. So, Arjun MKII or LCA will be far far superior than Chinese craps. What India is getting from this project is technical expertise. Now, Boeing and EADS wants to set up research facilities in India....

To Pakis:-
If you can gain design expertise from AK or JF-17 and make AK II and JF-18 without technical assistance, then it is technology absorption. Mere setting up production line is not enough. I think you guys need to change approach. The basic difference between Adam-Revo and Tata-Indica/Nano is sufficient to compare JF-17 with LCA or AK with Arjun MKII...

haha telling us to change our approach? You want us to be like you and waste 3 decades "developing" a tank only for the army to still have doubts about whether it meets requirements? You want us to be like you and have a delayed light combat fighter project?

Al-Khalid has been in service with us for many years, and the Thunder will enter service soon enough. In the end our tanks and planes will have better or equal to your weapons of the same category.

Look at it this way. India is trying to solve math problems it has never seen before by itself, whereas Pakistan is asking for China's help. Get's things done much quicker.

Btw, the Chinese have Russian cooperation in many of their projects, and they always end up reverse engineering whatever Russia gives them. And going by India's heavy reliance on Russian tech, I wouldn't say China's products will be behind whatever India is making. Pakistan always has the option of installing it's military hardware with French or German components.

 

[Energon]

NIKUS, please refrain from using the word Pa*is. It is demeaning and offensive.

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

NIkus - I don't think there is any doubt left, based on how you addressed Pakistanis (you Pak**), about your being Indian. So how about you switch your flag to India or Singapore, and desist from the slurs.

There are many Indians on this forum. The only thing we ask is that discourse takes place in a respectful manner. It is a Pakistani forum, so the burden of proof, for Indians making claims about Pakistan, will be higher (we all have our biases) so just keep that in mind.

Thanks.

 

[EagleEyes]

I dont know why it hurt him, when i said Arjun is a failure. Obviously, its not in Indian Army even after so many years and trials (I lost count, same with LCA).. what do you want one to believe? Ok fine.. Arjun is a copy of Leopard 2, and LCA is better than Gripen. Be happy.

 

[solid snake]

NIKUS, please refrain from using the word Pa*is. It is demeaning and offensive.

No it is not. I'm a P-a-k-i and damn proud of it!

**** is just like saying Brit or Aussie or Kiwi or Yankee. I don't give a flying crap what it's connotations are or were in Britain.

I don't even know why this word is censored here, this is completely ridiculous. P-A-K-I P-A-K-I P-A-K-I P-A-K-I

 

[MastanKhan]

Hi,

It has always amazed me---the ignorant whitey is calling me a name which makes me look clean and pious---but me the pakistani says---no don't call me by that name---even though the meaning of that name is good---but the whitey don't know that---

Was it Umro Bin Al Aas who went to the christian empoeror to ask for submission or conversion---and was rewarded with a basket of dirt---the emperor tried to humiliate him by ordering the courtiers to place a basket of dirt on Bin Al AAs head---Bin Al AAS was happy with the basket of dirt on his head and took off immediately---even there were fools in his troupe who were furious---not understanding the significance of the gesture---atleast there was one man who understood.

Similiarly some of my pakistnai colleagues are equally ignorant---I wish some pak would have stated---thanks for giving me a compliment you white piece of tu-d---thanks for blessing me---go ahead make my day---today---amongst the so many educated---not one man can stand up and say---it is fine by me---I accept the compliment.

Oh I am sorry---this tank purchase segment by india got hijacked----the question I originally wanted to ask was---why 347 and why not---350---is it a numbers game or india ran out of money---just kidding---

 

[Goodperson]

So the Arjun is finally a failure. It is much more cost-effective and better to go for T-90s. They rule!

Hope this video would change your perception of Arjun.

rnpbEEzP9hw[/media] - India's Indigenous Heavy Battle Tank- Arjun