India to Build 6 Nuclear-Powered Submarines - Navy Chief

[Providence]

I am sorry sir. But I aint came across anyone on the street who knew concretely that India was developing one. It was only a rumor until it was revealed. 100 MW reactor is the next logical step for India to take and though it is not easy to leapfrog 15 MW in terms of technology but I am very positive that India is working on it.

Actually you need upwards of 150-175MW to propel a power packed SSN/SSBN !

 

[AMCA]

Actually you need upwards of 150-175MW to propel a power packed SSN/SSBN !

You are absolutely right!! Lets wait for the curtains to go down on follow on class of Nuclear Submarines under construction. I dont wan to jump the gun.

 

[GR!FF!N]

Actually you need upwards of 150-175MW to propel a power packed SSN/SSBN !

depends on the tonnage of the sub I think.

A 12000-13000 ton SSN needs a 180-190 MW reactor(Like Akula).

But there are contrary example as well.Seawolf needs 45 MW reactor while Virginia needs 30 MW one.French Rubis has a 48 MW reactor,I'm no nuclear scientist,but that means India is already capable enough to develop a SSN effectively,right?

 

[Rajaraja Chola]

Actually you need upwards of 150-175MW to propel a power packed SSN/SSBN !

By all sources IAC 2 has been reported to be a Nuk powered AC. It means it would mostly have emals and reacter power research for more than 100MW is on

 

[Harisudan]

Guess which one we are getting?
The Deadliest Submarines in the World - TheRichest

Which one among the Top 10, ur navy is getting? The Chinese one??

 

[sankranti]

Actually you need upwards of 150-175MW to propel a power packed SSN/SSBN !

LOL.... what rubbish

Arihant has a 85 MW Nuclear reactor but more importantly a 70 MW Steam Turbine which is what actually powers the Submarine.

Assuming that a Submerged Arihant is 8,000 Tons, this is enough to push the submarine in excess of 37 Knots.

Compare this to the Akula which has a Seam Turbine of 74 MW pushing its 12,770 Tons (submerged) in excess of 32 Knots.

Better Still Arihant has TITANIUM Alloy Hull ..... which means it can go down to incredible depths and has a crush depth far in excess of most other submarines.

 

[tsinga]

So that means India will have 3 SSBN's + 6 SSN's in addition to the 1 already leased Russian SSN.

 

[Ankit Kumar]

Just wondering, can we put 2 reactors in one sub?

 

[sankranti]

So that means India will have 3 SSBN's + 6 SSN's in addition to the 1 already leased Russian SSN.

India is in talks to lease a Second Russian SSN apart from the one we already have.

The Russian submarine likely to be handed over to the Indian Navy will be the Kashalot K-322 nuclear-powered attack submarine which is a Project 971 Schuka-B Nuclear Submarine (NATO classification Akula II-class)

Which means a total of,

3 SSBN (1 to be handed over to the In in Feb 2016, 2 under construction)
6 SSN (to be constructed)
1 Akula I
1 Akula II
3 SSBN (to be constructed in the future)

So for the immediate future, we are looking at 11 Nuclear Subs and 12 beyond that.

 

[Harisudan]

or buy 6 nuc subs from russia?

That also won't be a bad option in the immediate future, because we got money.. U know what I'm saying.??? Moneyyyy..

 

[PARIKRAMA]

LOL.... what rubbish

Arihant has a 85 MW Nuclear reactor but more importantly a 70 MW Steam Turbine which is what actually powers the Submarine.

Assuming that a Submerged Arihant is 8,000 Tons, this is enough to push the submarine in excess of 37 Knots.

Compare this to the Akula which has a Seam Turbine of 74 MW pushing its 12,770 Tons (submerged) in excess of 32 Knots.

Better Still Arihant has TITANIUM Alloy Hull ..... which means it can go down to incredible depths and has a crush depth far in excess of most other submarines.

Actually the story goes that India wanted to build a SSN as ATV and later changed to SSBN. This is the reason, many things in Arihant is actually a hybrid or say in between class of SSN and SSBN

I quote
"
The plan for the Advanced Technology Vessel (ATV) until the late 1980s, was to build an SSN - a fast-moving deep-diving nuclear-powered attack submarine, which would hunt surface ships. Around the time India leased a Charlie-I class nuclear-powered attack submarine from the Soviet Union, which happened in 1988, planning veered towards building a submarine carrying ballistic missiles. The hull design was lengthened and the SSN quietly transformed into an SSBN.
"

The beauty of Arihant design is that people are not sure if its Charlie class or Victor class types to Even Borei or Yasen or effectively Akula 1 based design. Sample this

"The MoD/PMO decided not to release any photographs of the submarine, and no filming or photography by the media was permitted inside the Matsya Dock. One report stated that the submarine was visibly based on the Russian Borei-class SSBN, and claimed that the official invitation had a silhouette of the submarine indicating that it's almost definitely based on the Borei. But the 935 Borei has a length of 170 meters (580 feet), a beam of 13 meters (42 feet), and a displacement of 11,750-12,250 tons Surfaced and 17,000 tons Submerged."

"By 2004 it was reported that the first ATV would be launched by 2007. At that time it was reported that it would be an SSGN and displacing some 6,500 tons, with a design derivative of Russia's Project 885 Severodvinsk-class (Yasen) SSN. The ATV multirole platform would be employed for carrying out long-distance interdiction and surveillance of both submerged targets as well as principal surface combatants. It would also facilitate Special Forces operations by covertly landing such forces ashore."

"This would have the possibility of multiple performance: it could use missiles of cruise of average reach (1,000 km), ballistic missiles of short reach (300 km), torpedoes and mines, besides participating of operations special."

" The ATV was said to be a modified Akula-I class submarine. The Russian Akula-2 and Yasen are also modified Akula-1. By this line of reasoning the ATV would be in league of Yasen, so the ATV would be 6500 tons light, 8500 tons armed and surfaced and 10000 tons submerged. It would be the biggest and heaviest combat naval vessel built in India to date."

This is as per Advanced Technology Vessel (ATV)

For reactors, i am referring an Asian Age 1996 article quote
Richard Sharpe, the editor of Jane's Fighting Ships recently stated to Indian Age that "the Russian submarine-design bureau Rubin is cooperating with the DRDO in developing the sub's 190 MW PWR, and that the Indian navy already tested a nuclear-propulsion system ashore." He further stated that fabrication work on the 6000-tonne displacement hull will begin next year.

 

[Harisudan]

I don't think that India should go for SSBNs capable of carrying 15-20 ICBMs. Reason being that India has less than 200 Nukes, so it would be unwise to put so many Nukes (15 MIRV ICBMS means 75 Nukes , even if we count 3 warheads per missile) on a single Submarine, as in case of accident or sinking by enemy action, we would lose large part of our deterrence.

Thus I would advocate that India construct technologically good submarines capable of carrying 5-10 ICBMS (Similar to Aridhman class capable of carrying 8 K4s; no need to increase number of missile per submarine), and concentrate on improving stealth by providing anechoic tiles (reducing Sonar detectability) , non-magnetized steel (reducing Magnetic anomaly), and improving diving depth so that submarine could dive below Thermocline layer (reducing Thermal signature as water from thermocline layer downwards does not mix with surface water and thus there is no temperature anomaly created by hot water discharge of Submarine reactor and such depths of nearly 600m and more reduces and water disturbance on surface); and make large number of those SSBNs.

dude, weapons grade plutonium is readily available in plenty with India and it is not the case that we don't have enough nuke stockpile but we didn't keep it because so far according to our strategic planners, 200 is good enough for deterrence.. But when the need arises, nothing stops us from building more nukes.. The very policy of building Nuclear submarines is to have a Nuclear triad, where deterrence is far more credible.. So far we could not achieve Nuclear triad..
And this also enables India to strike any country in the world if need be which is again a major deterrence factor..

 

[GR!FF!N]

Just wondering, can we put 2 reactors in one sub?

yes we can.Typhoon class had 2 190 MW reactors,but that was a titan,weighing 26000+ ton.

 

[sankranti]

Actually the story goes that India wanted to build a SSN as ATV and later changed to SSBN. This is the reason, many things in Arihant is actually a hybrid or say in between class of SSN and SSBN

I quote
"
The plan for the Advanced Technology Vessel (ATV) until the late 1980s, was to build an SSN - a fast-moving deep-diving nuclear-powered attack submarine, which would hunt surface ships. Around the time India leased a Charlie-I class nuclear-powered attack submarine from the Soviet Union, which happened in 1988, planning veered towards building a submarine carrying ballistic missiles. The hull design was lengthened and the SSN quietly transformed into an SSBN.
"

The beauty of Arihant design is that people are not sure if its Charlie class or Victor class types to Even Borei or Yasen or effectively Akula 1 based design. Sample this

"The MoD/PMO decided not to release any photographs of the submarine, and no filming or photography by the media was permitted inside the Matsya Dock. One report stated that the submarine was visibly based on the Russian Borei-class SSBN, and claimed that the official invitation had a silhouette of the submarine indicating that it's almost definitely based on the Borei. But the 935 Borei has a length of 170 meters (580 feet), a beam of 13 meters (42 feet), and a displacement of 11,750-12,250 tons Surfaced and 17,000 tons Submerged."

"By 2004 it was reported that the first ATV would be launched by 2007. At that time it was reported that it would be an SSGN and displacing some 6,500 tons, with a design derivative of Russia's Project 885 Severodvinsk-class (Yasen) SSN. The ATV multirole platform would be employed for carrying out long-distance interdiction and surveillance of both submerged targets as well as principal surface combatants. It would also facilitate Special Forces operations by covertly landing such forces ashore."

"This would have the possibility of multiple performance: it could use missiles of cruise of average reach (1,000 km), ballistic missiles of short reach (300 km), torpedoes and mines, besides participating of operations special."

" The ATV was said to be a modified Akula-I class submarine. The Russian Akula-2 and Yasen are also modified Akula-1. By this line of reasoning the ATV would be in league of Yasen, so the ATV would be 6500 tons light, 8500 tons armed and surfaced and 10000 tons submerged. It would be the biggest and heaviest combat naval vessel built in India to date."

This is as per Advanced Technology Vessel (ATV)

For reactors, i am referring an Asian Age 1996 article quote
Richard Sharpe, the editor of Jane's Fighting Ships recently stated to Indian Age that "the Russian submarine-design bureau Rubin is cooperating with the DRDO in developing the sub's 190 MW PWR, and that the Indian navy already tested a nuclear-propulsion system ashore." He further stated that fabrication work on the 6000-tonne displacement hull will begin next year.

I am aware of the article and the history of how our SSN was converted into an SSBN.

That is why Arihant carries space for only 4 missiles.

However the news of Russian help in developing the Reactor is total fabrication and lies.

The Entire Arihant PW Reactor was designed and built totally in India by BARC.

V.K. Mehra gave leadership to the reactor development programme
H.S. Kamat was in charge of fuel development,
B.K. Bera, A.K. Suri and R.P. Singh played important roles on the fuel side.
The contribution of G.P. Srivastava, M. Mahapatra and R.K. Patil was formidable in control and instrumentation.
R.S. Yadav dealt with the design and manufacture of one of the most important components, the reactor pressure vessel.
C.G. Utge was responsible for the development of high-pressure, high-temperature equipment.

IT would be a gross disservice to the Nation aon to these scients if you were to credit the reactor to Russia.

Russian help was to provide us with Nuclear grade Uranium to fuel the Ractor.

Read more here,

Critical feat | Frontline

 

[PARIKRAMA]

I am aware of the article and the history of how our SSN was converted into an SSBN.

That is why Arihant carries space for only 4 missiles.

However the news of Russian help in developing the Reactor is total fabrication and lies.

The Entire Arihant PW Reactor was designed and built totally in India by BARC.

V.K. Mehra gave leadership to the reactor development programme
H.S. Kamat was in charge of fuel development,
B.K. Bera, A.K. Suri and R.P. Singh played important roles on the fuel side.
The contribution of G.P. Srivastava, M. Mahapatra and R.K. Patil was formidable in control and instrumentation.
R.S. Yadav dealt with the design and manufacture of one of the most important components, the reactor pressure vessel.
C.G. Utge was responsible for the development of high-pressure, high-temperature equipment.

IT would be a gross disservice to the Nation aon to these scients if you were to credit the reactor to Russia.

Russian help was to provide us with Nuclear grade Uranium to fuel the Ractor.

Read more here,

Critical feat | Frontline

You are correct on the indigenously designed 85 MW reactor but 190MW is what I am saying seems very similar or perhaps helped by Russians more as technical advisories.

If I recall correctly initially there were 3 reactor designs for ATV which were rejected after some brief field tests in late 79s and 84-88s time frame owing to instability. It was of course announced in 1996 Delhi AIR about a successful N sub reactor somewhere in eastern India. But nobody ever talked about it.

The arihant present reactor rumoured to be 85MW seems to be mostly in-house. But I am sure its that rumoured reactor test which I am sure may be based on earlier Russian designs which may be now upgraded to incorporate our recent advancements in PWR tech and seek that as a heart for heavier subs.

Interestingly with 6 torpedo tubes, Arihant looks less like SSBN honestly more like SSGN with the heavy ballistic missile tubes too.