India to Borrow and Spend More in 2010-2011

[Mahakaya]

You are talking nonsense. First, it's not $10 billion. Second, most of it is soft loans, with a small portion in payment for the logistics support to coalition forces without which they can not sustain their Afghan presence. Third, Pakistanis are not ungrateful like Indians who take foreign aid and the deny receiving it. If they are embarrassed by it, they should refuse aid, even though it'll hurt the poorest of the poor Indians.

But here's a story about British aid to India:

India’s foremost journalist and supernumerary fellow of Corpus Christi College, Oxford, has called for the ending of British foreign aid to India, calling it demeaning for his country.

Writing in the Indian Telegraph, Mr Sunanda K Datta-Ray said that it was “demeaning for a country to accept foreign money as it is to export economic refugees, whether highly qualified professionals to America or labourers to Singapore.”

Mr Datta-Ray, former editor of The Statesman in Calcutta and New Delhi, correspondent for the International Herald Tribune and Time magazine, and editorial consultant to Singapore’s The Straits Times newspaper, added that “surrendering British aid would remove an unnecessary irritant. It would also be good for India’s self-respect.”

He went on to reveal that India actually has its own foreign aid programme, called the “Indian Technical and Economic Cooperation” programme. It was launched in 1964 and now helps 156 countries, including Afghanistan.

The bizarre situation has therefore arisen where British taxpayers give untold millions to India, whose government in turn dishes out foreign aid to other countries.

“Many Britons feel that their country cannot afford to lavish £825 million on India over three years,” Mr Datta-Ray said, pointing out that the British taxpayer had already provided India with £1,045 million in aid over the previous five years.

Mr Datta-Ray then humorously postulated what the answer would be to anyone questioning British aid to India, saying that the likely retort would be along the lines of: “Well, after they’ve paid for their military and space programmes, there’s very little left for food. Hardly their fault is it you fascist, racist, holocaust denier!”

He also pointed out some harsh economic realities: the International Monetary Fund fears Britain’s public debt might double to a record 100 percent of the gross domestic product over the next five years and that unemployment (2.4 million without jobs) is at a 14-year high in the UK.

“The image of grinding poverty dies hard despite the US ruling that while Pakistan and Bangladesh are ‘developing’ countries, India is a ‘transforming’ nation (which justified slashing American aid by 35 percent to $81 million) and analysts constantly coupling India with China as the economic powers of the future,” he continued.

“India should now review the entire aid programme and the cost in terms of image, repayment and conditionalities,” he said.

* The British National Party has made it very clear that there will be no foreign aid of any sort paid out while British citizens suffer poverty and the lack of essential services.

This is in stark contrast to the Labour and Tory parties, both of whom have undertaken to increase foreign aid despite British people suffering economically.

The British National Party — Blog — Foremost Indian Journalist Calls for End of ?Demeaning? British Aid to India

One - I have never heard about Mr. Datta Ray. He might be a regionally popular guy but not in Entire India

As for Money for food and spending on defence - we all know what % of the GDP is spent on defence purposes. Was that line really by Mr Datta or did you add it there for your own propaganda.

The Grinding Poverty mentioned there is for around 240-260 mn people living in the country. We have just started growing at a pace of 8% right now and within 5-6 years we got our poverty down to 25% of the population in 2007 and I am sure by now would be 20-22% and I am sure it will go down quite a bit in the coming decade.

But the point is India is a developing economy with increasing number of investors looking at India as they feel their investments are safe, the markets are decent with enough depth and most importantly it is a STABLE Democracy!

Your rant does not change any of the truths above so please for the last time - stop making a mockery out of yourself!

 

[Iggy]

You are talking nonsense. First, it's not $10 billion. Second, most of it is soft loans, with a small portion in payment for the logistics support to coalition forces without which they can not sustain their Afghan presence. Third, Pakistanis are not ungrateful like Indians who take foreign aid and the deny receiving it. If they are embarrassed by it, they should refuse aid, even though it'll hurt the poorest of the poor Indians.

But here's a story about British aid to India:

India’s foremost journalist and supernumerary fellow of Corpus Christi College, Oxford, has called for the ending of British foreign aid to India, calling it demeaning for his country.

Writing in the Indian Telegraph, Mr Sunanda K Datta-Ray said that it was “demeaning for a country to accept foreign money as it is to export economic refugees, whether highly qualified professionals to America or labourers to Singapore.”

Mr Datta-Ray, former editor of The Statesman in Calcutta and New Delhi, correspondent for the International Herald Tribune and Time magazine, and editorial consultant to Singapore’s The Straits Times newspaper, added that “surrendering British aid would remove an unnecessary irritant. It would also be good for India’s self-respect.”

He went on to reveal that India actually has its own foreign aid programme, called the “Indian Technical and Economic Cooperation” programme. It was launched in 1964 and now helps 156 countries, including Afghanistan.

The bizarre situation has therefore arisen where British taxpayers give untold millions to India, whose government in turn dishes out foreign aid to other countries.

“Many Britons feel that their country cannot afford to lavish £825 million on India over three years,” Mr Datta-Ray said, pointing out that the British taxpayer had already provided India with £1,045 million in aid over the previous five years.

Mr Datta-Ray then humorously postulated what the answer would be to anyone questioning British aid to India, saying that the likely retort would be along the lines of: “Well, after they’ve paid for their military and space programmes, there’s very little left for food. Hardly their fault is it you fascist, racist, holocaust denier!”

He also pointed out some harsh economic realities: the International Monetary Fund fears Britain’s public debt might double to a record 100 percent of the gross domestic product over the next five years and that unemployment (2.4 million without jobs) is at a 14-year high in the UK.

“The image of grinding poverty dies hard despite the US ruling that while Pakistan and Bangladesh are ‘developing’ countries, India is a ‘transforming’ nation (which justified slashing American aid by 35 percent to $81 million) and analysts constantly coupling India with China as the economic powers of the future,” he continued.

“India should now review the entire aid programme and the cost in terms of image, repayment and conditionalities,” he said.

* The British National Party has made it very clear that there will be no foreign aid of any sort paid out while British citizens suffer poverty and the lack of essential services.

This is in stark contrast to the Labour and Tory parties, both of whom have undertaken to increase foreign aid despite British people suffering economically.

The British National Party — Blog — Foremost Indian Journalist Calls for End of ?Demeaning? British Aid to India

Riaz talking to is like this ...you just cannot stop talking nonsense and trolling..i asked you 100 times..is it AID recived by Indian government or NGO organisation..you just avoided it and talking anyting other than what we asking...first you said India is reciving AID from all countries and more that Pakistani..when members here debunked you and said it was loan..then you come up with another circus about both India and Pakistan are receiving only soft loans which has to be re payed?why are you desperate to state that India is receiving AID?

U.S. pledges millions in aid to Pakistan – Afghanistan Crossroads - CNN.com Blogs

here is the aid given to the Pakistan by the US...

 

[Chiru]

Riaz talking to is like this ...you just cannot stop talking nonsense and trolling..i asked you 100 times..is it AID recived by Indian government or NGO organisation..you just avoided it and talking anyting other than what we asking...first you said India is reciving AID from all countries and more that Pakistani..when members here debunked you and said it was loan..then you come up with another circus about both India and Pakistan are receiving only soft loans which has to be re payed?why are you desperate to state that India is receiving AID?

U.S. pledges millions in aid to Pakistan – Afghanistan Crossroads - CNN.com Blogs

here is the aid given to the Pakistan by the US...

bingo.......... You will not get any reply. Time to start new thread.

Pakistan has more gun owners than India.


Or resurgent Indian population does not have guns to protect themself.

 

[karan.1970]

Lets see if we can come to an agreement (last attempt)

1. India is not a superpower
2. Pakistan is not a failed state
3. Last 10 years India has grown at a much higher pace than earlier
4. Pakistan also grew at a phenomenal pace in the 1st half of this decade. The growth has slowed down significantly due to terrorism, WOT and internal law and order situation
5. India has made great strides in reducing poverty, hunger, slums etc. but is no where near the final desired situation
6. Pakistan has made great strides in reducing poverty, hunger, slums etc. but is no where near the final desired situation
7. Due to last 2-4 years of mess, Pakistan's economy has taken a major beating and required a bailout by IMF
8. Today India's economy is growing significantly faster than that of Pakistan and has managed to record impressive growth despite the global slowdown. Only second to China
9. Most composite Indices like WEF competitiveness, UN's HDR, CIA world Fact book, WEF Financial Development rate India fairly higher than Pakistan where as Pakistan does perform better than India on some individual factors like Road transport, % population below $1.25, child nourishment, per capita cloth usage..
10. Outlook for India at this time seems significantly better than Pakistan. Pakistan needs to get rid of its terrorist problem to get back on the horse..

 

[Hutchroy]

Notwithstanding the media stories, India is an old beggar with a large begging bowl, having received far more aid than Pakistan since independence. And still continues to receive massive foreign aid worth billions of dollars.

In spite of all of the recent news about aid to Pakistan dominating the media, the fact remains that resurgent India has received more foreign aid than any other developing nation since the end of World War II--estimated at almost $100 billion since the beginning of its First Five-Year Plan in 1951. And it continues to receive more foreign aid in spite of impressive economic growth for almost a decade. At the recent G20 meeting, India has asked the World Bank to raise the amount of money India can borrow as soft loans, generally considered aid, from the bank for its infrastructure projects, according to Times of India. At present, India can borrow up to $15.5 billion in soft loans as per the SBL (single borrower limit)in soft loans fixed by the Bank.

Haq's Musings: Foreign Aid Continues to Pour in Resurgent India

Articles from your "Musings" are AMUSING

Without arguement all one can say is "INDIA HAS ALWAYS REPAID ALL THE AMOUNTS RECEIVED AS AID AND NEVER HAD TO BEG FOR DEBT FORGIVENESS!"

You can take that to the Bank!!

 

[karan.1970]

Riaz talking to is like this ...you just cannot stop talking nonsense and trolling..i asked you 100 times..is it AID recived by Indian government or NGO organisation..you just avoided it and talking anyting other than what we asking...first you said India is reciving AID from all countries and more that Pakistani..when members here debunked you and said it was loan..then you come up with another circus about both India and Pakistan are receiving only soft loans which has to be re payed?why are you desperate to state that India is receiving AID?

U.S. pledges millions in aid to Pakistan – Afghanistan Crossroads - CNN.com Blogs

here is the aid given to the Pakistan by the US...

Some numbers

Economic Aid to India: $1,724,000,000
Economic Aid to Pak : $1,666,000,000

Per Capita Economic Aid to India: $ 1.57
Per Capita Economic Aid to Pak : $ 10.1

source (CIA World Fact book)

Economic aid - recipient 2010 country ranks, By Rank

Definition

refers to the net inflow of Official Development Finance (ODF) to recipient countries. The figure includes assistance from the World Bank, the IMF, and other international organizations and from individual nation donors. Formal commitments of aid are included in the data. Omitted from the data are grants by private organizations. Aid comes in various forms including outright grants and loans. The entry thus is the difference between new inflows and repayments. These figures are calculated on an exchange rate basis, i.e., not in purchasing power parity (PPP) terms.

 

[prithwidw]

I think it's time that all Indian posters should leave Mr. RiazHaq alone. Let him think, talk on his own with himself.

 

[RiazHaq]

Lets see if we can come to an agreement (last attempt)

1. India is not a superpower
2. Pakistan is not a failed state
3. Last 10 years India has grown at a much higher pace than earlier
4. Pakistan also grew at a phenomenal pace in the 1st half of this decade. The growth has slowed down significantly due to terrorism, WOT and internal law and order situation
5. India has made great strides in reducing poverty, hunger, slums etc. but is no where near the final desired situation
6. Pakistan has made great strides in reducing poverty, hunger, slums etc. but is no where near the final desired situation
7. Due to last 2-4 years of mess, Pakistan's economy has taken a major beating and required a bailout by IMF
8. Today India's economy is growing significantly faster than that of Pakistan and has managed to record impressive growth despite the global slowdown. Only second to China
9. Most composite Indices like WEF competitiveness, UN's HDR, CIA world Fact book, WEF Financial Development rate India fairly higher than Pakistan where as Pakistan does perform better than India on some individual factors like Road transport, % population below $1.25, child nourishment, per capita cloth usage..
10. Outlook for India at this time seems significantly better than Pakistan. Pakistan needs to get rid of its terrorist problem to get back on the horse..

I generally agree with this summary, with the following caveats:

1. I do agree that India ranks a little higher than Pakistan on UN's HDR, though both of them are slipping...with India slipping 6 places (128 in 2008 to 134 in 2009) and Pakistan slipping 3 places (138 last year to 141 in 2009). But I do not agree that the CIA world Fact book rates "India fairly higher than Pakistan".

2. Neither country has served its people well, as obvious from their very low rankings on HDR. South Asia's deprivation is comparable to sub-Saharan Africa's in spite of higher average incomes in India and Pakistan.

Haq's Musings: South Asia Slipping in Human Development

 

[karan.1970]

I generally agree with this summary, with the following caveats:

1. I do agree that India ranks a little higher than Pakistan on UN's HDR, though both of them are slipping...with India slipping 6 places (128 in 2008 to 134 in 2009) and Pakistan slipping 3 places (138 last year to 141 in 2009). But I do not agree that the CIA world Fact book rates "India fairly higher than Pakistan".

2. Neither country has served its people well, as obvious from their very low rankings on HDR. South Asia's deprivation is comparable to sub-Saharan Africa's in spite of higher average incomes in India and Pakistan.

Haq's Musings: South Asia Slipping in Human Development

I agree that CIA world fact book does not do rankings and hence does not rank India higher than Pakistan. My comment was based on the summary given in the country profile (Background and economy sections) for India and Pakistan on the site..And some of the indicators given there..


https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/geos/pk.html

https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/geos/in.html

But happy to convert my statement to

9. Most composite Indices like WEF Global competitiveness, UN's HDR, WEF Financial Development rate India fairly higher than Pakistan where as Pakistan does perform better than India on individual factors like Road transport, % population below $1.25, child nourishment, per capita cloth usage and India on most economic indicators like GDP growth, per Capita GDP PPP, literacy rate, inflation, employment rate, industrial growth etc

 

[Mahakaya]

I generally agree with this summary, with the following caveats:

1. I do agree that India ranks a little higher than Pakistan on UN's HDR, though both of them are slipping...with India slipping 6 places (128 in 2008 to 134 in 2009) and Pakistan slipping 3 places (138 last year to 141 in 2009). But I do not agree that the CIA world Fact book rates "India fairly higher than Pakistan".

2. Neither country has served its people well, as obvious from their very low rankings on HDR. South Asia's deprivation is comparable to sub-Saharan Africa's in spite of higher average incomes in India and Pakistan.

Haq's Musings: South Asia Slipping in Human Development

Please restrict that comment to your own country!

We as Indian citizens may not be completely happy with Indian Babus but definitely we are not so angry too unlike people in Pakistan!

 

[RiazHaq]

Please restrict that comment to your own country!

We as Indian citizens may not be completely happy with Indian Babus but definitely we are not so angry too unlike people in Pakistan!

Are you suggesting that Indians have a license to freely comment about Pakistan, and Pakistanis have no right to talk about their neighbors?

I believe a society should be judged by how it treats its most vulnerable citizens. By this criterion, I find both India and Pakistan lacking, and my blog criticizes both.

I find fault with Pakistan's corrupt and inept feudal elite that does not care for its people, and I write frequently about it. I criticize Pakistan's treatment of its women, its children and its minorities through frequent pots on these subjects. And I rarely get hate mail for it from my Pakistani readers. In fact, most agree with my criticisms.

I also find fault with India because of the callous disregard it shows for its women (female genocide), its children ( almost half its children are malnourished), its dalits ( UN human rights commissioner Pillai calls it Apartheid), and its minorities which are subject to frequent massacres by what American researcher Paul Brass describes as "production of violence" by known powerful groups in Indian politics and state machinery.

Unfortunately, most of my Indian readers and posters on the net only selectively read, target and attack any criticism of India, a phenomenon that has been witnessed and discussed by many foreigners.

The net is full of hypersensitive Indian netizens who troll the web and take offense at the slightest criticism of their country, while at the same time viciously attacking Pakistan in the most virulent terms.

In fact, my experience is captured well by a column Irfan Hissain, a harsh critic of Pakistan, wrote recently:

The reality is that we are all touchy about seeing our dirty linen washed in public, but somehow, Indians seem super-sensitive to any hint of criticism. While there are many dissenting voices that question Indian claims to having reached Nirvana, they do not find much space in the mainstream media. Although Indian journalists do excellent work in digging up scams and scandals, they do not often question the broad consensus underpinning the ‘India shining’ image the media, politicians and big business work so hard at projecting.

I spent the other evening at the Karachi Boat Club in the company of a European who has spent a long time in the region, and knows South Asia well, having lived in Pakistan and India for several years. When I asked him how it felt to be back in Pakistan after being away for a few years in New Delhi, his answer came as a surprise. As we have known each other for fifteen years, he had no need to be polite: “It feels great to be back,” he replied. “You have no idea how difficult day-to-day life is in New Delhi. Apart from the awful traffic, the pollution, and the expense, you have to put up with the prickliness of most Indians you meet. They are touchy to the point of paranoia. There is a lot of very aggressive poverty in the air. And when the New Delhi airport opens, we’ll have to brace ourselves for yet another self-congratulatory blast. What is truly shocking is how little the well-off Indians care about the poor.”

“Here in Pakistan, people are so much more laid back. Karachi’s traffic flows much faster, and I don’t sense the same kind of anger. While I’m sure there must be slums, I do not see the same level of abject poverty that is ever-present in India. And of course, the food is much better here.”

I suspect this last observation will provoke more ire among my Indian readers than anything else my friend said. The truth is that meat dishes cooked in Pakistan are better than in India, although vegetables there are far tastier than ours. However, this article is not about scoring points, but about the different ways in which we react to criticism. It is also about the myth and the reality underlying the Indian success story.


DAWN.COM | Columnists | Don?t shoot the messenger

 

[Mahakaya]

Are you suggesting that Indians have a license to freely comment about Pakistan, and Pakistanis have no right to talk about their neighbors?

I believe a society should be judged by how it treats its most vulnerable citizens. By this criterion, I find both India and Pakistan lacking, and my blog criticizes both.

I find fault with Pakistan's corrupt and inept feudal elite that does not care for its people, and I write frequently about it. I criticize Pakistan's treatment of its women, its children and its minorities through frequent pots on these subjects. And I rarely get hate mail for it from my Pakistani readers. In fact, most agree with my criticisms.

I also find fault with India because of the callous disregard it shows for its women (female genocide), its children ( almost half its children are malnourished), its dalits ( UN human rights commissioner Pillai calls it Apartheid), and its minorities which are subject to frequent massacres by what American researcher Paul Brass describes as "production of violence" by known powerful groups in Indian politics and state machinery.

Unfortunately, most of my Indian readers and posters on the net only selectively read, target and attack any criticism of India, a phenomenon that has been witnessed and discussed by many foreigners.

The net is full of hypersensitive Indian netizens who troll the web and take offense at the slightest criticism of their country, while at the same time viciously attacking Pakistan in the most virulent terms.

In fact, my experience is captured well by a column Irfan Hissain, a harsh critic of Pakistan, wrote recently:

The reality is that we are all touchy about seeing our dirty linen washed in public, but somehow, Indians seem super-sensitive to any hint of criticism. While there are many dissenting voices that question Indian claims to having reached Nirvana, they do not find much space in the mainstream media. Although Indian journalists do excellent work in digging up scams and scandals, they do not often question the broad consensus underpinning the ‘India shining’ image the media, politicians and big business work so hard at projecting.

I spent the other evening at the Karachi Boat Club in the company of a European who has spent a long time in the region, and knows South Asia well, having lived in Pakistan and India for several years. When I asked him how it felt to be back in Pakistan after being away for a few years in New Delhi, his answer came as a surprise. As we have known each other for fifteen years, he had no need to be polite: “It feels great to be back,” he replied. “You have no idea how difficult day-to-day life is in New Delhi. Apart from the awful traffic, the pollution, and the expense, you have to put up with the prickliness of most Indians you meet. They are touchy to the point of paranoia. There is a lot of very aggressive poverty in the air. And when the New Delhi airport opens, we’ll have to brace ourselves for yet another self-congratulatory blast. What is truly shocking is how little the well-off Indians care about the poor.”

“Here in Pakistan, people are so much more laid back. Karachi’s traffic flows much faster, and I don’t sense the same kind of anger. While I’m sure there must be slums, I do not see the same level of abject poverty that is ever-present in India. And of course, the food is much better here.”

I suspect this last observation will provoke more ire among my Indian readers than anything else my friend said. The truth is that meat dishes cooked in Pakistan are better than in India, although vegetables there are far tastier than ours. However, this article is not about scoring points, but about the different ways in which we react to criticism. It is also about the myth and the reality underlying the Indian success story.


DAWN.COM | Columnists | Don?t shoot the messenger

This implication or inference of yours that Indians are not worried about the poor is quite wrong. I suggest you look up the poverty census from 1990 to 2010 and you will be able to appreciate the fact that poverty has decreased manifold despite the ever growing population. Talking of population, we also know that it is our biggest problem which leads to all the important inferences drawn by the EUROPEAN.

I can name quite a few important Europeans specifically Brits who stay in India and love it out here. But then again it will be off topic.

As for the point in bold - The reason why Karachi is laid back is because Economic Development has not hit the city or the nation yet and the day it does you will see a stark difference in that Europeans point of view as well.

For the point you made on being "Super Sensitive", I believe that is a good sign for the Indians. The reason I say that is that we are constantly aware of our shortcomings and we are working very hard to resolve the issues and I am sure once everything is sorted out we will not some across as super sensitive to the world.

For the point on Dalits (some of the Dalits are in positions of authority - so I am not sure from which era are you quoting Pillai), female infanticide - YES IT IS A PROBLEM and NO ONE DENIES IT! but like I said we are working hard to resolve the issue, thanks to all the criticism.

I don't see a lot of Indian making remarks on Pakistan or running a blog bashing Pakistan. However off late I have a seen a lot of Pakistani's writing blogs about India's shortcomings but they often fail to include India's achievements clearly inflating their own egos and placating their public for "you exactly know what".

Let me ask you on the other hand - given 55% of Indians don't have lavatories and I feel disgusted by thinking of it as a fact - how much has the Pakistani Government done over the last 60 years that 65% of its population does not have lavatories. Now when we get into percentages the figure changes does it not!

So I suggest you look up a lot of your facts and don't make inferences on absolute numbers. If you do want to make comparisons then please do so on percentages!

Also, you will be able to write a more rational and balanced blog once you visit India and specially New Delhi - As for the pollution I am not sure how did he come to that inference as New Delhi is the 2nd GREENEST CITY IN ASIA FOLLOWED BY CHANDIGARH! and that my friend IS A FACT! - It does not mean though that it is does not face severe pollution but then again like I said - WE ARE WORKING VERY HARD AND ALL THANKS TO THE CRITICISM BY MANY PEOPLE LIKE YOU!

 

[Chiru]

^^^ Mr Haq

How many times you past same article on same thread. This shows your desperation level.

 

[Chiru]

^^^ Mr Haq

How many times you past same article on same thread. This shows your desperation level.

 

[karan.1970]

turn of this thread to be closed...