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India to Borrow and Spend More in 2010-2011

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This implication or inference of yours that Indians are not worried about the poor is quite wrong. I suggest you look up the poverty census from 1990 to 2010 and you will be able to appreciate the fact that poverty has decreased manifold despite the ever growing population. Talking of population, we also know that it is our biggest problem which leads to all the important inferences drawn by the EUROPEAN.

I can name quite a few important Europeans specifically Brits who stay in India and love it out here. But then again it will be off topic.

As for the point in bold - The reason why Karachi is laid back is because Economic Development has not hit the city or the nation yet and the day it does you will see a stark difference in that Europeans point of view as well.

For the point you made on being "Super Sensitive", I believe that is a good sign for the Indians. The reason I say that is that we are constantly aware of our shortcomings and we are working very hard to resolve the issues and I am sure once everything is sorted out we will not some across as super sensitive to the world.

For the point on Dalits (some of the Dalits are in positions of authority - so I am not sure from which era are you quoting Pillai), female infanticide - YES IT IS A PROBLEM and NO ONE DENIES IT! but like I said we are working hard to resolve the issue, thanks to all the criticism.

I don't see a lot of Indian making remarks on Pakistan or running a blog bashing Pakistan. However off late I have a seen a lot of Pakistani's writing blogs about India's shortcomings but they often fail to include India's achievements clearly inflating their own egos and placating their public for "you exactly know what".

Let me ask you on the other hand - given 55% of Indians don't have lavatories and I feel disgusted by thinking of it as a fact - how much has the Pakistani Government done over the last 60 years that 65% of its population does not have lavatories. Now when we get into percentages the figure changes does it not!

So I suggest you look up a lot of your facts and don't make inferences on absolute numbers. If you do want to make comparisons then please do so on percentages!

Also, you will be able to write a more rational and balanced blog once you visit India and specially New Delhi - As for the pollution I am not sure how did he come to that inference as New Delhi is the 2nd GREENEST CITY IN ASIA FOLLOWED BY CHANDIGARH! and that my friend IS A FACT! - It does not mean though that it is does not face severe pollution but then again like I said - WE ARE WORKING VERY HARD AND ALL THANKS TO THE CRITICISM BY MANY PEOPLE LIKE YOU!

:coffee:

On Europeans in India, a Delhi-based Dutch diplomat Arnold Parzer was so frustrated being a resident of the Indian capital city that he called New Delhi "the most miserable place I have ever lived in".

Arnold Parzer, agriculture counsellor at the Royal Netherlands Embassy, also reportedly told the Dutch daily Het Financieele Dagblad that New Delhi residents were a ‘darn nuisance”, the Hindustan Times reported.

“Anything that can go wrong, does go wrong; everyone interferes with everyone else; the people are a darn nuisance; the climate is hell; the city is a garbage dump,” Parzer reportedly told the daily.

“New Delhi is the most miserable place I have ever lived in,” the diplomat was quoted as saying.

On Dalits and Apartheid, Ms. Navi Pillay, the South African judge who became the United Nations high commissioner for human rights last year, recently told Barbara Crossette of the Nation a story about a group of women who came to her in Geneva recently with a brick from a latrine they had torn down in protest against being forced to carry away human excrement in their bare hands. They wanted to make the point that despite India's frequent assertions that untouchables," who call themselves Dalits ("broken people"), were no longer condemned by birth to do this job, there were still tens of thousands of such latrines in the country, and the ******, soul-destroying work continues

Over 250 million people are victims of caste-based discrimination and segregation in India. They live miserable lives, shunned by much of society because of their ranks as untouchables or Dalits at the bottom of a rigid caste system in Hindu India. Dalits are discriminated against, denied access to land, forced to work in slave-like conditions, and routinely abused, even killed, at the hands of the police and of higher-caste groups that enjoy the state's protection, according to Human Rights Watch.

Haq's Musings: Dalit Victims of Apartheid in India

On green cities, Islamabad is considered among the greenest cities in the world.

Karachiites being laid back does not mean there is no economic activity. In fact, Karachi has seen dramatic development and economic growth in the last decade. There has been a very visible construction, industrial, finance media and consumer boom in the city. Any casual observer can see that Karachi's infrastructure is superior to that of any Indian city.

Haq's Musings: Eleven Days in Karachi, Pakistan

Here are some of the percentages you want:

While a mere 14 percent of people in rural areas of the country - that account for 65 percent of its 1.1 billion population - had access to toilets in 1990, the number had gone up to 28 percent in 2006. In comparison, 33 percent rural Pakistanis had access to toilets in 1990 and it went up to an impressive 58 percent in 2006.

More at : India trails Pakistan, Bangladesh in sanitation http://www.thaindian.com/newsportal...sh-in-sanitation_100120219.html#ixzz0jgKsuVmr
 
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Conclusion : India to borrow, spend and repay in the years to come. Indians earn more, save more and have every reason to buy more.
:azn:
 
In the meantime, while our good friend is trying to measure the size of our pecker....

Tuesday, March 30, 2010
KARACHI: Pakistan’s debt sustainability indicators deteriorated in July-Dec 2009 as external debt and liabilities were up, while foreign exchange earnings remained stagnant and the economy slowed down, the SBP said in its report.

The total external debt as percentage of GDP as well as debt servicing to export earnings ratio worsened during the period under review, the bank said. The stock of external debt and liabilities increased by $4.7 billion to reach $55.8 billion in the first half of the current fiscal year, it said.

External debt servicing was $2.648 billion by end of Dec 2009, up 9.7 per cent from the same period of the previous year, as the country repaid bilateral creditors, multilateral donors and private non-guaranteed debt. Yet, almost 25 per cent the increase in external debt and liabilities was due to depreciation of the US dollar against major currencies, the SBP in its report said.

External debt rises to $55.8bn
 
In the meantime, while our good friend is trying to measure the size of our pecker....

With $180 billion GDP, Pakistan's debt to gdp ratio is about about 30%.

While I agree that it can become a serious problem if not properly tackled, I also think it can be managed if the economy starts to grow again soon. That's the real challenge for Pakistan right now.

Haq's Musings: Pakistan's Economic Performance 2008-2010
 
On Europeans in Delhi, a Delhi-based Dutch diplomat Arnold Parzer was so frustrated being a resident of the Indian capital city that he celled "New Delhi is the most miserable place I have ever lived in".

On Dalits and Apartheid, Ms. Navi Pillay, the South African judge who became the United Nations high commissioner for human rights last year, recently told Barbara Crossette of the Nation a story about a group of women who came to her in Geneva recently with a brick from a latrine they had torn down in protest against being forced to carry away human excrement in their bare hands. They wanted to make the point that despite India's frequent assertions that untouchables," who call themselves Dalits ("broken people"), were no longer condemned by birth to do this job, there were still tens of thousands of such latrines in the country, and the ******, soul-destroying work continues

Over 250 million people are victims of caste-based discrimination and segregation in India. They live miserable lives, shunned by much of society because of their ranks as untouchables or Dalits at the bottom of a rigid caste system in Hindu India. Dalits are discriminated against, denied access to land, forced to work in slave-like conditions, and routinely abused, even killed, at the hands of the police and of higher-caste groups that enjoy the state's protection, according to Human Rights Watch.

Haq's Musings: Dalit Victims of Apartheid in India

Karachiites being laid back does not mean there is no economic activity. In fact, Karachi has seen dramatic development and economic growth in the last decade. There has been a very visible construction, industrial, finance media and consumer boom in the city. Any casual observer can see that Karachi's infrastructure is superior to that of any Indian city.

Haq's Musings: Eleven Days in Karachi, Pakistan

Here are some of the percentages you want:

While a mere 14 percent of people in rural areas of the country - that account for 65 percent of its 1.1 billion population - had access to toilets in 1990, the number had gone up to 28 percent in 2006. In comparison, 33 percent rural Pakistanis had access to toilets in 1990 and it went up to an impressive 58 percent in 2006.

More at : India trails Pakistan, Bangladesh in sanitation India trails Pakistan, Bangladesh in sanitation

Oh did I press A WRONG NERVE SOMEWHERE! OH SORRY THESE DAYS EVERY NERVE IS WRONG "I MEAN FOR YOU KNOW WHO"

The point is simple - India is still the 2nd fastest growing economy in the world - Pakistan is nowhere close to that spot.

In the corruption perceptions Index Pakistan is way at the bottom of the list I believe ranks 139 while India is at no. 84 out of a total of 180.

The 58% story does not change anything-The fact of the matter is that 65% or 166 million people in your country still do not have access to a lavatory.

Indian Economy has grown at an average rate of 7% from 1997 onwards - can you please share the same figures for Pakistan!

The BSE has grown at a CAGR of 15.7%, 17.1% and 18.9% from 1991, 2001 and 2004 (respectively) to 2010. Care to enlighten me how much has the Karachi SE has risen in CAGR terms?

India's per capita GDP is $3100, Pakistan on the other hand is at $2500 a difference of over $600, despite being 4 times smaller in population.

You talk so much about Dalits and other minorties and their agony and their attempts to break off from India - Care to enlighten why Balochistan and NWFP is trying to break away from Pakistan?

Over the past 62 years there has not been a single military coup in India - care to explain why has only 1 democratically elected government has sustained the full term in parliament in Pakistan?

You talk about infrastructure - Have you been to New Delhi, Chandigarh, the sub-urbs surrounding them?


THE POINT IN BOLD ABOVE DOES NOT MAKE ANY SENSE - PLEASE RE-READ - ITS SHODDY JOURNALISM!

Please by the end of it you are nothing more than a frustrated guy who does not want to direct his pent up anger or does not have the ability to direct it to his Nation's leaders and is quick to jump the gun on the INDIANs. We are an emerging power and the world has acknowledged that. My suggestion to you is that you stop focusing on India and concentrate more on playing a constructive role in shaping PAKISTANI opinion around the fact that your government needs to do more.


Let us be as we are cos we know that WE ARE WORKING HARD AND WILL COME OUT SUCCESSFUL IF SINCERE!
 
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With $180 billion GDP, Pakistan's debt to gdp ratio is about about 30%.

While I agree that it can become a serious problem if not properly tackled, I also think it can be managed if the economy starts to grow again soon. That's the real challenge for Pakistan right now.

Haq's Musings: Pakistan's Economic Performance 2008-2010

There is a big IF. :rofl::rofl:

I would suggest you to spend your time and energy to make the big IF to reality.
 
With $180 billion GDP, Pakistan's debt to gdp ratio is about about 30%.

While I agree that it can become a serious problem if not properly tackled, I also think it can be managed if the economy starts to grow again soon. That's the real challenge for Pakistan right now.

Haq's Musings: Pakistan's Economic Performance 2008-2010

Oops.. Wrong ratio... Debt (a liability) is compared against reserves(assets). Anytime external debt to reserves ratio crosses 1, you are in trouble.. In case of Pakistan Reserves = $16 billion..

And isnt the GDP for 2009 pegged at closer to 165 billion??

Debt to Reserves ratio: 3.6

growing steadily worse.. Used to be under 3 an year or so back
 
Oops.. Wrong ratio... Debt (a liability) is compared against reserves(assets). Anytime external debt to reserves ratio crosses 1, you are in trouble.. In case of Pakistan Reserves = $15 billion..

Debt to Reserves ratio: 3.6

growing steadily worse.. Used to be under 3 an year or so back

To make the ratio 1. Pakistan has to make so many trips to IMF/World bank door with its famous bowl.
 
Indian Economy has grown at an average rate of 7% from 1997 onwards - can you please share the same figures for Pakistan!

The BSE has grown at a CAGR of 15.7%, 17.1% and 18.9% from 1991, 2001 and 2004 (respectively) to 2010. Care to enlighten me how much has the Karachi SE has risen in CAGR terms?

India's per capita GDP is $3100, Pakistan on the other hand is at $2500 a difference of over $600, despite being 4 times smaller in population.

You talk so much about Dalits and other minorties and their agony and their attempts to break off from India - Care to enlighten why Balochistan and NWFP is trying to break away from Pakistan?

Over the past 62 years there has not been a single military coup in India - care to explain why has only 1 democratically elected government has sustained the full term in parliament in Pakistan?

You talk about infrastructure - Have you been to New Delhi, Chandigarh, the sub-urbs surrounding them?


THE POINT IN BOLD ABOVE DOES NOT MAKE ANY SENSE - PLEASE RE-READ - ITS SHODDY JOURNALISM!

Please by the end of it you are nothing more than a frustrated guy who does not want to direct his pent up anger or does not have the ability to direct it to his Nation's leaders and is quick to jump the gun on the INDIANs. We are an emerging power and the world has acknowledged that. My suggestion to you is that you stop focusing on India and concentrate more on playing a constructive role in shaping PAKISTANI opinion around the fact that your government needs to do more.


Let us be as we are cos we know that WE ARE WORKING HARD AND WILL COME OUT SUCCESSFUL IF SINCERE!

The data on economic and market comparison has been beaten to death in the other thread. Apparently you are new to this discussion.

The bottom line is that KSE performance has far exceeded the BSE performance over the last decade 1999-2009.

Pakistan's KSE-100 stock index surged 55% in 2009 in US dollar terms and 65% in rupee terms, in a year that also saw the South Asian nation wracked by increased violence and its state institutions described by various media talking heads as being on the verge of collapse. Even more surprising is the whopping 825% increase in KSE-100 from 1999 to 2009, which makes it a significantly better performer than the BRIC nations. BRIC darling China has actually underperformed its peers, rising only 150 percent compared with energy-rich Brazil (520 percent) and Russia (326 percent) or well-regulated India (274 percent), which some investors see as a safer and more diverse bet compared with the Chinese equity market, which is dominated by bank stocks. This is the kind of performance that has got the attention of some of the top investors and investment firms around the world.

KSE-100 closed at 1408 on Dec 31, 1999. Then, exactly 10 years later on Dec 31, 2009, it closed at 9386. In between, it hit a peak of 15125 on March 31, 2008 around the time of the elections.

Using a 10-year window with year-end closes in 1999 and 2009, it comes to about 21% CAGR. If you discount it for Pak currency decline from 55 to 85 rupees to a dollar (most of which occurred since 2008), then the CAGR return is still a whopping 16% a year....clearly beating all of the BRIC nations' stock performance in this period.

If you insist on making KSE-100 look bad by using the March 31, 2000 peak (2000 points) at last week's close (on 10138 points), then 17.82% before currency discount, and 13% after it...still beating all of the BRICs.

As to India's per capita in PPP terms, it's highly questionable because it uses a misleading PPP methodology based on Big Mac index.

In US dollar terms, the per capita incomes of India and Pakistan are about same at $1000 a year.

Talking about regional insurgencies, India has many more of them than Pakistan does.

Unlike you and other chauvinistic Indian posters here, I have personally had the opportunity to visit and compare India and Pakistan first hand over the last several years.
 
The data on economic and market comparison has been beaten to death in the other thread. Apparently you are new to this discussion.

The bottom line is that KSE performance has far exceeded the BSE performance over the last decade 1999-2009.

Pakistan's KSE-100 stock index surged 55% in 2009 in US dollar terms and 65% in rupee terms, in a year that also saw the South Asian nation wracked by increased violence and its state institutions described by various media talking heads as being on the verge of collapse. Even more surprising is the whopping 825% increase in KSE-100 from 1999 to 2009, which makes it a significantly better performer than the BRIC nations. BRIC darling China has actually underperformed its peers, rising only 150 percent compared with energy-rich Brazil (520 percent) and Russia (326 percent) or well-regulated India (274 percent), which some investors see as a safer and more diverse bet compared with the Chinese equity market, which is dominated by bank stocks. This is the kind of performance that has got the attention of some of the top investors and investment firms around the world.

KSE-100 closed at 1408 on Dec 31, 1999. Then, exactly 10 years later on Dec 31, 2009, it closed at 9386. In between, it hit a peak of 15125 on March 31, 2008 around the time of the elections.

Using a 10-year window with year-end closes in 1999 and 2009, it comes to about 21% CAGR. If you discount it for Pak currency decline from 55 to 85 rupees to a dollar (most of which occurred since 2008), then the CAGR return is still a whopping 16% a year....clearly beating all of the BRIC nations' stock performance in this period.

If you insist on making KSE-100 look bad by using the March 31, 2000 peak (2000 points) at last week's close (on 10138 points), then 17.82% before currency discount, and 13% after it...still beating all of the BRICs.

As to India's per capita in PPP terms, it's highly questionable because it uses a misleading PPP methodology based on Big Mac index.

In US dollar terms, the per capita incomes of India and Pakistan are about same at $1000 a year.

Talking about regional insurgencies, India has many more of them than Pakistan does.

Unlike you and other chauvinistic Indian posters here, I have personally had the opportunity to visit and compare India and Pakistan first hand over the last several years.



If you take only returns without considering market size

Here is data. Even palestine stock exchange has better returns than pakistan.
Both have similar economy based on foreign aid and remittance.

FT.com / Emerging Markets - Push to raise Palestinian bourse?s profile


Palestinian business leaders are arriving in London for an investor roadshow this week, part of a global effort to draw foreign share*holders to the Palestine Securities Exchange and raise the bourse’s international profile.

Ahmad Aweidah, the PSE’s chief executive, said he hoped the series of meetings with fund managers and London-based executives would lead to more foreign investment in the Palestinian exchange.
EDITOR’S CHOICE
Palestinian economy gains $50m boost - Feb-01
Palestinians eye settler goods ban - Mar-16

“We are going to highlight what we believe is a good investment opportunity in Palestinian equities. We are targeting investment funds and hedge funds with a particular interest in the Middle East and North Africa region as well as frontier funds,” he told the Financial Times.

The Palestinian exchange opened trading in 1997 and has provided a platform for local businesses throughout the frequent periods of instability, violence and war since then. It currently lists 39 companies, the largest of which is PalTel, the dominant local telecommunications provider. The total market capitalisation is about $2.5bn.

The exchange is based in the cities of Nablus and Ramallah in the Palestinian West Bank, which – unlike the Hamas-controlled Gaza Strip – has in recent years benefited from political stability and rapid economic growth.

The PSE has in turn sought to capitalise on the relatively benign political and economic climate by reaching out to foreign investors.

Last year, it held an investor roadshow in Chile, which has a large Palestinian community, and the bourse plans to repeat this week’s London event in New York later in the year.

“Frontier markets are sexy right now, and we are about as frontier as you can get,” Mr Aweidah said, pointing out that the Palestinian exchange had yielded strong returns for investors so far.

“Since we opened in 1997, investors have achieved an average annual return of 17.5 per cent. That’s not bad,” he said. More than half the shares currently listed on the PSE are held by local investors, with much of the rest controlled by investors from the Gulf and other Arab countries.

The biggest western investor is UK-based Blakeney Management, a fund that specialises in “inefficient” markets in Africa and the Arab world. Mr Aweidah said Blakeney had invested about $200m in PSE-listed companies.

This month, the PSE announced plans to become a listed company itself – a move that would turn it into the first listed, privately-owned stock exchange in the Arab world.

A Palestinian investment company called Padico holds 78 per cent of the PSE, but is committed to selling down its stake over the course of the year with the aim of floating the exchange towards the end of 2010 or in early 2011.

Copyright The Financial Times Limited 2010. You may share using our article tools. Please don't cut articles from FT.com and redistribute by email or post to the web.
 
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Riaz, What is the combined market cap of KSE ?
What is market cap of NSE or BSE in its comparison ?
Forget NSE, just take one company. The split Reliance company owned by Mr. Mukesh Ambani. What is the market cap of RIL ?

Now tell me if it is a fruitful exercise to compare them at all.
 
If you take only returns without considering market size

Here is data. Even palestine stock exchange has better returns than pakistan

FT.com / Emerging Markets - Push to raise Palestinian bourse?s profile


Palestinian business leaders are arriving in London for an investor roadshow this week, part of a global effort to draw foreign share*holders to the Palestine Securities Exchange and raise the bourse’s international profile.

Ahmad Aweidah, the PSE’s chief executive, said he hoped the series of meetings with fund managers and London-based executives would lead to more foreign investment in the Palestinian exchange.
EDITOR’S CHOICE
Palestinian economy gains $50m boost - Feb-01
Palestinians eye settler goods ban - Mar-16

“We are going to highlight what we believe is a good investment opportunity in Palestinian equities. We are targeting investment funds and hedge funds with a particular interest in the Middle East and North Africa region as well as frontier funds,” he told the Financial Times.

The Palestinian exchange opened trading in 1997 and has provided a platform for local businesses throughout the frequent periods of instability, violence and war since then. It currently lists 39 companies, the largest of which is PalTel, the dominant local telecommunications provider. The total market capitalisation is about $2.5bn.

The exchange is based in the cities of Nablus and Ramallah in the Palestinian West Bank, which – unlike the Hamas-controlled Gaza Strip – has in recent years benefited from political stability and rapid economic growth.

The PSE has in turn sought to capitalise on the relatively benign political and economic climate by reaching out to foreign investors.

Last year, it held an investor roadshow in Chile, which has a large Palestinian community, and the bourse plans to repeat this week’s London event in New York later in the year.

“Frontier markets are sexy right now, and we are about as frontier as you can get,” Mr Aweidah said, pointing out that the Palestinian exchange had yielded strong returns for investors so far.

“Since we opened in 1997, investors have achieved an average annual return of 17.5 per cent. That’s not bad,” he said. More than half the shares currently listed on the PSE are held by local investors, with much of the rest controlled by investors from the Gulf and other Arab countries.

The biggest western investor is UK-based Blakeney Management, a fund that specialises in “inefficient” markets in Africa and the Arab world. Mr Aweidah said Blakeney had invested about $200m in PSE-listed companies.

This month, the PSE announced plans to become a listed company itself – a move that would turn it into the first listed, privately-owned stock exchange in the Arab world.

A Palestinian investment company called Padico holds 78 per cent of the PSE, but is committed to selling down its stake over the course of the year with the aim of floating the exchange towards the end of 2010 or in early 2011.

Copyright The Financial Times Limited 2010. You may share using our article tools. Please don't cut articles from FT.com and redistribute by email or post to the web.

In spite of the brutal Israeli occupation, Palestinians rank at 110, much higher on human development index than India or Pakistan.

So I am not surprised that their market has done well, in spite of extreme adversity. I wish them well.
 
In spite of the brutal Israeli occupation, Palestinians rank at 110, much higher on human development index than India or Pakistan.

So I am not surprised that their market has done well, in spite of extreme adversity. I wish them well.

They are like pakistan depends on foreign aid and remittance.

Pakistan uses the aid to buy military hardware but they don't.
 
Riaz, What is the combined market cap of KSE ?
What is market cap of NSE or BSE in its comparison ?
Forget NSE, just take one company. The split Reliance company owned by Mr. Mukesh Ambani. What is the market cap of RIL ?

Now tell me if it is a fruitful exercise to compare them at all.

We also beat this one to death on the other thread. Now that you are resurrecting it, let me tell you that market caps are judged relative to the national GDP.

KSE is only a small fraction of Pakistan's GDP, whereas BSE is about the size of India's GDP. Now, is that good thing?

I don't think so. With BSE's high market cap near India's GDP, and average PE ratio of 2X that of KSE, it just means that KSE has much more upside than BSE. I think BSE is a big bubble right now. KSE is the place to be, as far as my money goes.

Haq's Musings: Goldman, Franklin-Templeton Bullish on Pakistan's Economy
 
We also beat this one to death on the other thread. Now that you are resurrecting it, let me tell you that market caps are judged relative to the national GDP.

KSE is only a small fraction of Pakistan's GDP, whereas BSE is about the size of India's GDP. Now, is that good thing?

I don't think so. With BSE's high market cap near India's GDP, and average PE ratio of 2X that of KSE, it just means that KSE has much more upside than BSE. I think BSE is a big bubble right now. KSE is the place to be, as far as my money goes.

Haq's Musings: Goldman, Franklin-Templeton Bullish on Pakistan's Economy

If Investment banks and mutual funds are bullish on KSE, Why there is no single ETF or mutual fund pakistan specific. I watch CNBC daily. I have not heard a single word on pakistan unless topic is terror or bomb blast.

Yesterday there was blast in Russia so oil price increased. There are bomb blasts everyday in pakistan. No one cares.

Investment community don't care about pakistan. You have to shed your ego and accept the fact . :hitwall::hitwall:
 
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