India to Acquire Fresh 40 Su-30MKIs

[joey]

Yes I am sure I have no idea. When the LCA becomes fully operational and is employed against the PAF then we will discuss it...until then lets table it and talk about what is coming down the pike in the next 5 years or so.

Trust me i'm not talking with prejudice.
Yes wait and see, and oh btw you dont have to wait 5 years.

And no i'm against any war so no against PAF/PLAAF.

My one friends brother works in NAL, after getting bext student prize from President after being first from VIT.

A simple questions do you know how many ELINT platforms we operate?

 

[Bull]

So the problem that I see with typical counters like this is that people start comparing aircraft for an aircraft..

Who started giving out figures like 96 F-16 and Jf -17s, it was from your side(pakistani member) who did that first.And to which we replied tit for that.

Based on the systematic upgradation of PAF, there is no doubt in my mind that PAF would not be outclassed in any specific spheres aside from the quantitative one.

How on earth can you say that?

1. India has more money assigned towards its defence
2. india has better( and that too a considerable) access to tech wrt to Pak. We can very well buy from anybody we want to.

Keeping this in mind what makes you think Idia would let Pakistan reduce the gap.

 

[Bull]

A simple questions do you know how many ELINT platforms we operate?

How many? Well im interest to know and before that tell me what a ELINT is?

 

[Bull]

read my post above. Also Pakistan would not have 32 or so F-16s of blk 52 standard...in terms of avionics, it would have 96 airframes with this capability.

Comparing platform to platform is a waste....as long as the aircraft have capabilities that are generally in the same class, what matters more is the weapons, employment and tactics.

2 airforces with same tech but one AF has double the planes? What chance does the other have?

 

[joey]

These aircraft have now become very important to any force nowadays.

added to all these ESM Functions, A New role SAR Mapping has become very important.

There are only two Aircraft dedicated to SAR mapping are US E-8 JSTARS & UK Astor Aircraft.
Their job is to search, detect, track Ground targets, including small vehicles, tanks etc and send the information to Fighter immediately for targeting.

And These Aircraft with powerful radars detect even small ground targets hundreds of kilometers away with high precision of less than 1 meter.

Fighters & UAVs Radars have SAR Modes, But they don't have enough range to detect small targets from long distance.

In other words, E-8 JSTARS & ASTOR Aircraft are like AWACS but they detect ground targets instead of airborne targets.


Coming back to ELINT, COMINT Role, Even AWACS Can do job.
But dedicated Platforms with good processing power, threat library is more important.

ELINT Aircraft are very critical nowadays because they can detect any kind radar signals, They process those signals, find out their frequency, the position of platform emitting them, distance etc other factors.
So we can map which radar of enemy operates at which frequency at what position regular, at what time etc

These will be quite helpful in using Anti-Radiation Missiles against Radars coz we have to know the frequency range in which radar operates.

Besides that we can find the gaps between enemy radar coverage, So that our aircraft can penetrate those gaps and attack in surprise.

Almost every Fighter will have some ESM equipment, But the difference between dedicated platforms & fighters is processing power & hardware, endurance etc

Even DRDO is developing a comprehensive ground based ESM System.

Back AF ESM Fleet, there are so many Aircraft in IAF doing this job.
3 GulfStream SR-IIIA
2 or 3 Boeing 737
Seven IAI Astra SPX
3 An-32
2 IL-76
2 Learjet-29
5 HS-748
2 Boeing 707

Navy operates Do-228 equipped with ESM, maritime radar.

little is known abt these Aircraft, IAF prefers to keept them classified

well..............

 

[blain2]

Trust me i'm not talking with prejudice.
Yes wait and see, and oh btw you dont have to wait 5 years.

And no i'm against any war so no against PAF/PLAAF.

My one friends brother works in NAL, after getting bext student prize from President after being first from VIT.

A simple questions do you know how many ELINT platforms we operate?

That is fine...until the LCA achieves IOC and we see the specific capabilities and avionics, the jury is out...is that fair?

I am not aware of the number of ELINT platforms in use by the IAF....I am sure there are quite a few assets available (however I hope you understand the distinction between a Fighter aircraft like M2K flying and running some interference with ECMs as ELINT and a dedicated platform like Phalcon or Erieye conducting ELINT missions and are not counting the former as an amazing tool for ELINT).

 

[joey]

next step is ELINT/SIGINT installations in deep space with SOSUS/SURTASS seabed sensor network in sea.

all part of defence.................so much for aesa

oh i forgot bi-statics as well go to tatased website and see the C3I system they has developed

 

[blain2]

Who started giving out figures like 96 F-16 and Jf -17s, it was from your side(pakistani member) who did that first.And to which we replied tit for that.



How on earth can you say that?

1. India has more money assigned towards its defence
2. india has better( and that too a considerable) access to tech wrt to Pak. We can very well buy from anybody we want to.

Keeping this in mind what makes you think Idia would let Pakistan reduce the gap.

Why are we going around in circles?? Its a matter of technology being introduced....its not situation where only IAF flyes 4 or 4.5 gen aircraft and PAF remains stuck on 3rd gen.

There is a qualitative change but its not limited to one side. Both sides are upgrading and both AFs have different missions....PAF does not require the same number of aircraft as IAF simply because its primarily a defensive AF....IAF has to cater to two threats....technology wise, IAF will have nothing that totally outclasses PAF in the next 5 or so years.

 

[blain2]

2 airforces with same tech but one AF has double the planes? What chance does the other have?

If both AF's had the same mission then your point would hold water....PAF and IAF have separate missions and separate needs...based on that their inventories are built out.

You have had double the numbers ever since independence and we have gone through two wars and in each of the wars, there were limitations places on the airforce with a larger inventory. Some of those limitations would apply even in the future.

 

[joey]

That is fine...until the LCA achieves IOC and we see the specific capabilities and avionics, the jury is out...is that fair?

indeed fair, but i have such 2 articles which will change your entire view.
anyways to put things into perspective LCA's FBO has recieved 3 upgrades already and so is it sensor fusion system.

Should you read the article now? umm i'll give tomorow iys 2 am

When your talking of aerospace Technology gap being closed keep two factors in mind in simple words if i put,

1> Defence budget
2> Home aerospace industry yearly turnover.

PAF's doctrine is defensive not offensive.

The LCA is enough if i start but as u said its fair to stop till IOC.

I am not aware of the number of ELINT platforms in use by the IAF....I am sure there are quite a few assets available (however I hope you understand the distinction between a Fighter aircraft like M2K flying and running some interference with ECMs as ELINT and a dedicated platform like Phalcon or Erieye conducting ELINT missions and are not counting the former as an amazing tool for ELINT).

I do bro.

 

[blain2]

well..............

And your point is what? ELINT is a big topic...not every aircraft listed above does the same type of stuff and even then there are gaps....ELINT is something that is conduced by PAF DA-20s and even Naval MPAs...the P-3s being acquired alone have enough ELINT gadgetry available on them that they would put to shame many of the aircraft that you have listed above...forget about the ELINT capabilities on the Erieye (and for that matter Phalcon would have amazing ELINT capabilities as well).

So its all relative. IAF is naturally a larger AF and would have greater areas of responsibilities than PAF, however the fact remains that even in the case of ELINT, PAF would not hurting.

 

[joey]

but i dont think anymore war will happen between us to no worries.
I'm more interested in peace and having energy security with stable economy in asia.

 

[joey]

And your point is what? ELINT is a big topic...not every aircraft listed above does the same type of stuff and even then there are gaps....ELINT is something that is conduced by PAF DA-20s and even Naval MPAs...the P-3s being acquired alone have enough ELINT gadgetry available on them that they would put to shame many of the aircraft that you have listed above...forget about the ELINT capabilities on the Erieye (and for that matter Phalcon would have amazing ELINT capabilities as well).

So its all relative. IAF is naturally a larger AF and would have greater areas of responsibilities than PAF, however the fact remains that even in the case of ELINT, PAF would not hurting.

ofcourse PAF wont hurt did i said tht? i said tht to see how much u knew bout iaf bull asked me a question.

PAF also want to acquire czech tamara system , dont know if its stuck or not.

i told you the day LCA will reach IOC we will talk about technical advantages.
so yea wait.

lets not compare any ohter IAF inventory with PAF, as i'm bored of comparing mki with everything.

but the daddy of everything is bi-static radars, which is the divya dristi program we have, go to tata sed site and see slowly programs developing on it.

 

[blain2]

indeed fair, but i have such 2 articles which will change your entire view.
anyways to put things into perspective LCA's FBO has recieved 3 upgrades already and so is it sensor fusion system.

Should you read the article now? umm i'll give tomorow iys 2 am

When your talking of aerospace Technology gap being closed keep two factors in mind in simple words if i put,

1> Defence budget
2> Home aerospace industry yearly turnover.

PAF's doctrine is defensive not offensive.

The LCA is enough if i start but as u said its fair to stop till IOC.


I do bro.

I never said PAF's doctrine is offensive.

Not sure what the point about turnover in Indian airspace industry and defence budget have anything to do with this discussion...with the same token, China (with very close defence cooperation with Pakistan) dwarfs India in both cases....after US, Chinese will be spending the most money towards research and are going to overtake EU in this regard within the decade...so to assume that only India is developing at the bleeding edge of technology is comical esp. if you assume that Pakistan does not stand to gain from all of the Chinese research and also infusion of military technology and weaponry from the US and the West in general.

 

[blain2]

ofcourse PAF wont hurt did i said tht? i said tht to see how much u knew bout iaf bull asked me a question.

PAF also want to acquire czech tamara system , dont know if its stuck or not.

i told you the day LCA will reach IOC we will talk about technical advantages.
so yea wait.

lets not compare any ohter IAF inventory with PAF, as i'm bored of comparing mki with everything.

but the daddy of everything is bi-static radars, which is the divya dristi program we have, go to tata sed site and see slowly programs developing on it.

I believe it was not Tamara. It was Vera Passive surveillance radar. Last I heard it had been cleared by the Czech MoD and was under evaluation by Pakistan.