India test-fires nuclear-capable missile

[Contrarian]

That article is complimentary.

It says that if ew have developed that, thta is if we have succeded in doing what WE HAVE SUCCEDED in doing in the last test that has been widely reported, then IT IS AN EXCEPTIONAL ADVANCE IN TECHNOLOGY.

As regards to Arjun, there are many reasons why 124 have been ordere now.
1.Doctrine
2. Cost
3. Its intended use as a force multiplier and not as the backbone.
The IA is not gonna use it as the base of tanks. Its gonna be used as a force multiplier with a back of numerous T-90S.
4. Time to get crew trained on it.
5. Time to get logistics set right for using this beast.
6. Time to further understand its capabilities.

There are gonna be many more orders, as has been stated by many ministers, the full productio will start, the avadi lines are jampacked with T-72 upgrades and T-90S's. As they clear, more are gonna be ordered.

You say if jane's reported it and bbc trusted it, it has to be right and ur more inclined to believe that. Well....i ask you...do you want me to post scores of articles here of BBC that are about Pak...will you beliveve all of them?? same goes for jane's. They have been known to be wrong.

There are also dozens fo experts who have certified the Arjun to be a world class MBT, it is a heavy tank, completely different from AK or T-90. It outclasses them completely as its in a differnt league. It is meant to be inducted in smaller numbers, and be used to multiply the attcak of the army.

 

[TomCat111]

As regards to Arjun, there are many reasons why 124 have been ordere now.
1.Doctrine
2. Cost
3. Its intended use as a force multiplier and not as the backbone.
The IA is not gonna use it as the base of tanks. Its gonna be used as a force multiplier with a back of numerous T-90S.
4. Time to get crew trained on it.
5. Time to get logistics set right for using this beast.
6. Time to further understand its capabilities.

There are gonna be many more orders, as has been stated by many ministers, the full productio will start, the avadi lines are jampacked with T-72 upgrades and T-90S's. As they clear, more are gonna be ordered..

This is why I call Arjun a piece-of-junk. Read it and then give it a rest. May Arjun’s soul RIP.

"The automotive trials of two prototypes carried out by Army during 1988-89 revealed major deficiencies... Two fully integrated prototypes were given to the Army for full fledged evaluation only in March 1990 after the commencement of production of PPS tanks. The evaluation trials of the prototypes also revealed major deficiencies. Subsequent trials were conducted on PPS tanks. Till July 1997, 15 pre-production series tanks which were subjected to extensive user and troop trials failed to meet fully even the bottom line parameters of the user.

As of mid-2000 India planned to acquire T-90 tanks, based on field trials which had already been completed. Although orders had been placed for the supply of 124 Arjun tanks through the Defence Research Development Organisation, it would be difficult to predict when these orders would be fufilled.

Pakistan’s announcment in 1995 of a deal with Ukraine to purchase T-84s caused a flurry of activity in the Indian tank development community... Further improvements were deemed necessary even after the Arjun design profile was accepted again in July 1996.

The Summer trials carried out in April 1997 on PPS-15, reference tank for bulk production indicated that though there was improvement from the previous years, it was still below the acceptable standards. The major deficiencies pointed out in the summer trials of 1996 i.e. accuracy of gun at battle ranges, mission reliability, lethality of ammunition, containerisation of ammunition bin, emergency traverse etc continue to persist and were yet to be solved.. The Army accordingly indicated in July 1997 that in its present form, the overall reliability of MBT Arjun was far from satisfactory. The Army further indicated that periodic failures of equipment and subsystems tend to reduce the confidence level of troops. The Army also observed that the aspect of armour protection had not been tried out. Army recommended in June 1997 that Limited Series Production should commence only after all the observations and shortcomings noticed were rectified and shown to them.

As of mid-1997 the list of faults after 20 years of development was not encouraging. In addition to numerous technical modifications to its fire and gun control systems, the fire control system in particular has been found unable to perform in temperatures above 42 degrees Celsius (108° F). The [DODO] has been considering scrapping the current Arjun fire control system in favor of whatever is accepted for the T-72M1 upgrade program...

MBT Arjun in its present form will require increased maintenance time and efforts-says the Army. The Army accordingly expressed grave concern on the reliability and maintainability of MBT and pointed out that while the world over the trend was to reduce the maintenance time, it had increased with MBT Arjun... Summer trials of 1997 indicated that the performance was below the acceptable standards...

As the indigenous efforts to develop a suitable engine and transmission system for the MBT were beset with problems, 42 power packs with transmission units were imported between November 1983 and 1988 from Germany for use on the prototypes and PPS tanks. However, as the imported transmission system was designed to cater upto 60 tonne load as against the all-up weight of 61.5 tonne for the MBT, a mismatch had arisen between engine and transmission which had resulted in bulging of side walls of the hull." GlobalSecurity.org

There are also dozens fo experts who have certified the Arjun to be a world class MBT, it is a heavy tank, completely different from AK or T-90. It outclasses them completely as its in a differnt league.

Then stop buying from Ruskies and start exporting your piece-of-junk to Ruskies. Hey, who knows, maybe Americans would wanna buy a few engineering marvels too for turkey-shooting.

 

[Contrarian]

whatever, read zravers views, and other authorities on the subject.

 

[TomCat111]

whatever, read zravers views, and other authorities on the subject.

Wouldn’t it be stupid to check others’ views when your own Army has shown its displeasure with these DODO pieces-of-junk and forced the Indian government to buy Russian tanks in huge quantities instead? If there is anyone you need to convince, it’s your own army who doesn’t want to touch these disasters-in-making with a 10 foot pole.

 

[Goodperson]

Wouldn’t it be stupid to check others’ views when your own Army has shown its displeasure with these DODO pieces-of-junk and forced the Indian government to buy Russian tanks in huge quantities instead? If there is anyone you need to convince, it’s your own army who doesn’t want to touch these disasters-in-making with a 10 foot pole.

I do not want to pick on your post but it happenned to be the last post when I am replying.
What I gather is this is totally related to the thread topic.

( As far as convincing Indian Army is concerned they are already buying 124 numbers of Arjun as the production rate is limited and ost of Arjun is more please create separate thread to discuss further on this)

peace

 

[TomCat111]

please create separate thread to discuss further on this

Please let me invite you to take the lead.

 

[Goodperson]

Ha, I was talking about sticking to topic of the thread, I suggested to open another thread when discussions diverted towards Arjun.

 

[Contrarian]

Wouldn’t it be stupid to check others’ views when your own Army has shown its displeasure with these DODO pieces-of-junk and forced the Indian government to buy Russian tanks in huge quantities instead? If there is anyone you need to convince, it’s your own army who doesn’t want to touch these disasters-in-making with a 10 foot pole.

Open a new thread if you wish. But you still stick to your old stance after reading reports, that the army has inducted 124, more will follow once production lines clear up. Giving time for IA to adjust various factors according to the new requirements. Its meant to be a force multiplier, not the base, so they have to induct new Russian tanks.

If you still think that you know the inside story, then by all means carry on.

 

[TomCat111]

Ha, I was talking about sticking to topic of the thread, I suggested to open another thread when discussions diverted towards Arjun.

It’s not like I own the site or have been designated as a forum policeman, ironically nor are you. I think you might have been in position to extend the excellent sermon had:
1. you not participated in the Arjun discussion, or
2. you had started a new thread and invited us to discuss it there.
3. you followed your preaching by sticking to the topic in message 82.

Umnn... what’s the phrase I am looking for? Oh yea... ‘people who live in glasshouses don’t throw stones.’

No hard feeling...

 

[TomCat111]

Open a new thread if you wish. But you still stick to your old stance after reading reports, that the army has inducted 124, more will follow once production lines clear up. Giving time for IA to adjust various factors according to the new requirements. Its meant to be a force multiplier, not the base, so they have to induct new Russian tanks.

If you still think that you know the inside story, then by all means carry on.

Do you like going in circle like a dog chasing its tail?:crazy2:

We have already gone over it. :read:

 

[Contrarian]

Do you like going in circle like a dog chasing its tail?:crazy2:

We have already gone over it. :read:

that is what i am saying to YOU, all your claims about Arjun have been categorically rejected. Yet you still stick to your old stance. Do you not want to learn more about something??

 

[TomCat111]

that is what i am saying to YOU, all your claims about Arjun have been categorically rejected. Yet you still stick to your old stance. Do you not want to learn more about something??

Let me tell you one last time. :wall:

1. Who cares what people like you reject?
2. Don’t tell me; tell it to your army. Because your own army hates them and dont want to get stuck with them. Just because your government is shoving these pieces-of-junk down army’s throat doesn’t mean these disasters have magically improved for even turkey shooting. :GUNS:

 

[Contrarian]

we dont need to tell it to OUR army, they already know they have a fine machine. That is why they are inducting them. Slowly at first and fast in later stages. Dont tell me you know more about stuff than the Army which would not accept junk shoved on them, even by the govt.

So the fact of the matter is, its my govt, its my army, they are inducting what they think is best, in the manner they judge best. You in effect are no1 to judge whether it is a failure or not especially if it is being bought by the army.

 

[vnomad]

1. Who cares what people like you reject?

30 years no Arjun's inducted. If its a deficient system why induct 124 of them now? Obviously because the flaws have been ironed out.

2. Don’t tell me; tell it to your army. Because your own army hates them and dont want to get stuck with them.

If the CHIEF OF ARMY STAFF is to be believed, then the Arjun is a fine machine which PASSED all its trials, desert or otherwise. The government couldn't force the Arjun down the throats of the IA before what's changed now? The Israelis and Russians haven't worked on it for nothing.

 

[Contrarian]

Forget it vnomad, no point arguing with him. He wont belive whatever you say anyways. I wonder, though, what is the point of going on a discussion foum if you cannot accept new ideas or different views?