India spanks USA over diplomat arrest issue !

[Developereo]

Its clear that this is a case of someone well connected bully underprivileged. You see this over the world. But in this case in India, its so blatant that its an embarrassment to the nation of Indian. The worse part is that India is continuing this embarrassment in the US make this an international news. What an embarrassment to India!!!!!!

You are right that this is not unique to India; it happens all over the world.

Also, as more and more details come out about this consul's behavior, the Indian establishment must be banging their head. But now, with election season and media coverage, the story has developed its own momentum.

Both the Indian and American governments are probably hoping for the story to die down, so they can quietly negotiate a solution away from the media.

 

[JayAtl]

Its clear that this is a case of someone well connected bully underprivileged. You see this over the world. But in this case in India, its so blatant that its an embarrassment to the nation of Indian. The worse part is that India is continuing this embarrassment in the US make this an international news. What an embarrassment to India!!!!!!

Yeah chinese only killing the foreigners by top officials is not an embarrassment. the chinese only having its citizens committing sex trade crimes all over the world is not an embarrassment. The chinese needing pamphlet in how to behave in other countries in not embarrassment

having your blind citizens sent off to the US is not an embarrassment Troll boy..

 

[faithfulguy]

You are right that this is not unique to India; it happens all over the world.

Also, as more and more details come out about this consul's behavior, the Indian establishment must be banging their head. But now, with election season and media coverage, the story has developed its own momentum.

Both the Indian and American governments are probably hoping for the story to die down, so they can quietly negotiate a solution away from the media.

I think both will. US would not back down until she is on trial. India would not want her in jail. She can go to trail and be acquitted and than go home. The only problem is if India insist on that she would not go to trail. If that is the case, than we'll have a problem.

 

[JayAtl]

You are right that this is not unique to India; it happens all over the world.

Also, as more and more details come out about this consul's behavior, the Indian establishment must be banging their head. But now, with election season and media coverage, the story has developed its own momentum.

Both the Indian and American governments are probably hoping for the story to die down, so they can quietly negotiate a solution away from the media.

There is just one aspect of this case India has a point to make. The " strip search" part. That act could have been avoided because of the low bar of this crime- but I suspect some overzealous jail officer made that call...

why? because americans or non citizens by law are afforded what we call ROR release. That means they get booked, fingerprinted, photographed and then cited to show up in court, WITHOUT having to change into jail clothing.

more and more details are just that - one sided details. she is and has to be presumed innocent till proved guilty. so leaks here and there should be taken with a grain of salt.

 

[Developereo]

I think both will. US would not back down until she is on trial. India would not want her in jail. She can go to trail and be acquitted and than go home. The only problem is if India insist on that she would not go to trail. If that is the case, than we'll have a problem.

State department will find some way to give her immunity and close the matter.

The US has bigger issues on its mind than a nanny's complaints.

more and more details are just that - one sided details. she is and has to be presumed innocent till proved guilty. so leaks here and there should be taken with a grain of salt.

The fact that the US justice apparatus found sufficient cause to proceed with the case lends credence to the maid's (and her family's) claims, although I agree that's not proof just yet.

Also, the Indian cases against the maid are also evidence in the sense that the family was clearly being made to suffer for the maid's alleged conduct. If the maid's daughter's claims are to be believed, the consul's father made direct threats.

 

[JayAtl]

State department will find some way to give her immunity and close the matter.

The US has bigger issues on its mind than a nanny's complaints.



The fact that the US justice apparatus found sufficient cause to proceed with the case lends credence to the maid's (and her family's) claims, although I agree that's not proof just yet.

Also, the Indian cases against the maid are also evidence in the sense that the family was clearly being made to suffer for the maid's alleged conduct. If the maid's daughter's claims are to be believed, the consul's father made direct threats.

oh I am sure they made threats...no doubt about that. and you being culturally aware of that part of the world, you know how the elites have more power and abuse it. the whole establishment is against this maid because frankly it is an image issue created by that darn " strip search".

But just because a case was lodged against the maid in India does not make her guilty i.e. I have more faith in the judicial system in India or atleast I hope they will do the right thing. BUT then again, her not being on indian soil may complicate the issue , judicially speaking. Happens in ever country where a court may pass a judgement against the accused who did not show up.

and yes, typically if they( US) found grounds to indict then there is something there. But we saw recently where they indicted a princess from the immediate Saudi royal family on similar and worse charges and she was found not guilty.

 

[KRAIT]

To all the members, its not about whether the person was guilty or not, what was her character, what was she doing etc.

Its about how US officials treated a person who holds such a post in Indian consulate.

Its about the significance of the post.

What if another official is treated in similar manner, without any prior information to Indian Consulate, following protocols etc. Then it will again create this diplomatic nightmare.

One doesn't strip and Cavity Search on visa fraud especially in this case, it was completely idiotic.

 

[JayAtl]

To all the members, its not about whether the person was guilty or not, what was her character, what was she doing etc.

Its about how US officials treated a person who holds such a post in Indian consulate.

Its about the significance of the post.

What if another official is treated in similar manner, without any prior information to Indian Consulate, following protocols etc. Then it will again create this diplomatic nightmare.

One doesn't strip and Cavity Search on visa fraud especially in this case, it was completely idiotic.

there was no cavity search and indian consulate not being informed is an assumption. even so there is no requirement to inform period. you guys have been told so many lies, like being handcuffed in front of her kids and rest...it is no wonder there is false outrage.

and it not just visa fraud, there are other charges having to do with labor laws, wages and forced labor.

there is a major screw up by the US 'jail' submitting officer in the strip search. that india has a point about.

 

[dray]

I think both will. US would not back down until she is on trial. India would not want her in jail. She can go to trail and be acquitted and than go home. The only problem is if India insist on that she would not go to trail. If that is the case, than we'll have a problem.

State department will find some way to give her immunity and close the matter.

The US has bigger issues on its mind than a nanny's complaints.

If this news posted by @eowyn is valid, then this case is already dead, and US is also apologizing then.

Devyani Khobragade had full diplomatic immunity at the time of arrest - Indian Express

 

[Marigold]

Why is so difficult for you guys to comprehend that it was out of their own free will and as free legal citizens of India! there is no legal basis for them not to travel if they chose to and the country travelling accepted their request. Whether they traveled under tax exemption or not is moot. they were legally free to travel on their own free will! They chose to go...

and what part of being arrested = handcuffing do you not get? if it is deemed to be a crime then handcuffs is a part of the arrest. as simple as that...

now the part where we messed up was the " changing of clothes into jail attire= strip search". That could have been and should have been avoided because US laws permit that. But it upto the jail house officers. then too- There is no body cavity search like everyone thinks a strip search means... simple change of clothes with a female attendant present. thats it.

Sangeeta Richards' passport was revoked and Office of Foreign missions was informed and requested to trace her for deportation. Instead of deporting the maid, the US govt. sneeks the family into the US. On top of it, Preet Bharara uses the word "evacuate". Why would the Americans interfere in Indian legal proceedings? If any lives are in danger in India, how is it American problem? What do you think our judicial system is- a joke?

Handcuffing a diplomat is not okay, and definitely not simple. Dr. Khobragade wasn't going anywhere.

You are right there, she should not have been strip-searched. But she was also mentioned being cavity searched in a letter to the IFS association of India.

I strongly feel the US has made a habit of messing with Indians. And the Indians had made it a habit of tolerating. So i guess the Indian outburst is more of a shock.
As about Sangeeta Richards, she is nothing but a liar and a blackmailer. In her last meeting in the consulate, she asked for US $ 10,000, a fresh passport and help with immigration to the US. The consulate agrees to the first and turned down the other two demands. Hence the fiasco. I hope people reserve their sympathy for the really poor and needy people.

 

[Sashan]

Excellent article from Outlook

Back To Basics

When the dust over the Devyani Khobragade episode settles down, India will have to answer some tough questions that hitherto it had been avoiding to address.

One of the most important questions is linked to the existing system which either forces or encourages diplomats and officials to give false statements to US authorities. The Indian diplomatic corps is a little blasé about a system, going on for three to four decades with a “nod” and “wink”, where information given by them to US authorities is seldom challenged or scrutinized. This pertains mainly to those who take along a domestic help for their US posting.

The argument that the perks offered to a domestic help while working in a diplomat’s house during such postings, match or surpass the hourly minimum wage stipulated by American authorities, does not wash. It may convince a captive domestic audience but leaves room for challenge before an independent American judiciary.

When an Indian national is arrested for giving false information to US authorities, it is an embarrassment for the country. It is worse when diplomats or consular officials, who are representatives of India, get caught on similar charges. It seriously hampers India’s credibility and makes all honest Indians planning to visit the US, into suspects.

If India is serious about learning some hard lessons from the Devyani episode, then it should immediately take corrective measures. It could, for instance, develop a pool of cooks and domestic helpers, give them a contract that honours the minimum wage and working hours as stipulated by the US government, and allow its diplomats to avail their service. It should immediately stop the practice of allowing individuals to draw up contracts with their domestic helps since it always leaves room for exploitation, by either the employer or the employee. While developing such a pool, the Indian government or the Ministry of External Affairs, will have to make arrangements for their lodging, medical facilities and also leave travel.

The second issue stems from the “humiliating” treatment meted out to Devyani in the wake of her arrest and India’s knee-jerk response to it. The deputy consul general was subjected to such humiliation because she had partial immunity. But her American counterparts posted in India did not face such problems till recently because most enjoyed full diplomatic immunity. This raises a serious question as to why India allowed itself to be subjected to such an unequal relationship with the Americans for so long.

We are told that around the beginning of this year the reserved parking slots for Indian diplomats in front of the Indian embassy in Washington were removed. But till the Devyani episode came to the media limelight, the Indian government was happy sending demarches to the US authorities to claim back the reserved parking slots. The barricades surrounding the US embassy in Delhi were removed only after Devyani’s arrest and humiliating treatment.

As part of a tough stand against the Americans, which was more to play to the Indian domestic gallery, the MEA decided to withdraw many of the privileges US diplomats and officials enjoyed. This was topped with a demand to furnish salary and bank details of all Indian nationals employed by the US missions in the country. The details of such information are not yet known, but it may well turn out that the salaries of most Indians working for the Americans here are much higher than salaries Indians are paid in corresponding jobs working for Indian government, or other Indians.

The best course for India is to stop such false bravado. It should instead, do a reality check about the relationship it had been pursuing so far with the US. The special privileges it had been extending to US diplomats and officials were never reciprocated for their Indian counterparts working in the US. Much of this special courtesy was going under the notion that the US is a friendly country. But real friendship can be between two equals. Otherwise, it is seen as slave-master relationship.

There is no denying that the US enjoys pre-eminence in the world pecking order. It is also beyond dispute that in terms of India’s foreign relations; the US is perhaps one of the most, if not the most, important relationship. But to make it a meaningful one, India has to stand in equal footing with the US. The first step in that direction can be taken by making it more reciprocal than what it has been so far. The Devyani episode has opened a window of opportunity for India to do so. But it remains to be seen what lessons India finally draws from this week-long controversy that has put Indo-US relations to a severe test.


Back To Basics | Pranay Sharma

 

[JayAtl]

Sangeeta Richards' passport was revoked and Office of Foreign missions was informed and requested to trace her for deportation. Instead of deporting the maid, the US govt. sneeks the family into the US. On top of it, Preet Bharara uses the word "evacuate". Why would the Americans interfere in Indian legal proceedings? If any lives are in danger in India, how is it American problem? What do you think our judicial system is- a joke?

Handcuffing a diplomat is not okay, and definitely not simple. Dr. Khobragade wasn't going anywhere.

You are right there, she should not have been strip-searched. But she was also mentioned being cavity searched in a letter to the IFS association of India.

I strongly feel the US has made a habit of messing with Indians. And the Indians had made it a habit of tolerating. So i guess the Indian outburst is more of a shock.
As about Sangeeta Richards, she is nothing but a liar and a blackmailer. In her last meeting in the consulate, she asked for US $ 10,000, a fresh passport and help with immigration to the US. The consulate agrees to the first and turned down the other two demands. Hence the fiasco. I hope people reserve their sympathy for the really poor and needy people.

JESUS CHRIST MAN! DO YOU NOT GET that Sangeta was the so called ' accused' in India- not her family! her family has all the right to travel anywhere if they wished to do so! THEY DECIDED TO MOVE!

secondly, just because her passport was revoked, she cannot just be picked up for deportation! In the US maybe not in India, every legal resident has a right to appeal a deportation, especially when the deportation looks like a pay back on case where she is the victim in the US courts!

per your logic- every asylum seeker otherwise permitted/ granted to live in the US would be deported back too- if the host country objects to their citizen granted asylum in the US

BTW, are you the prosecuting officer? where do you come up with she demanded that of the US consulate? where is your proof? the same place from where you guys said that this indian consular worker was handcuffed in front of her kids.

and maybe in india they don't handcuff anyone... in the US they do. That TOO! they did not do so on the spot!

 

[KRAIT]

there was no cavity search and indian consulate not being informed is an assumption. even so there is no requirement to inform period. you guys have been told so many lies, like being handcuffed in front of her kids and rest...it is no wonder there is false outrage.and it not just visa fraud, there are other charges having to do with labor laws, wages and forced labor.there is a major screw up by the US 'jail' submitting officer in the strip search. that india has a point about.

First, all I am saying is from what US office told. They told about strip search and as for informing consulate, these type of cases are sensitive that's why special considerations are taken so that no strain in relations occur.

BTW you shouldn't compare this post holder with other Indians in US.

The case in point is the treatment. She wasn't handcuffed in front of her kids. She was returning after dropping her kid to school.

I again say, US Marshall office should have taken the case very responsibly and sensitively.

Also, the point is the evacuation of maid's family makes no sense. Reference of "evacuation" and why it was required - Preet's statement.

Sorry to say, I don't want to act like an apologist.

 

[JayAtl]

First, all I am saying is from what US office told. They told about strip search and as for informing consulate, these type of cases are sensitive that's why special considerations are taken so that no strain in relations occur.

BTW you shouldn't compare this post holder with other Indians in US.

The case in point is the treatment. She wasn't handcuffed in front of her kids. She was returning after dropping her kid to school.

I again say, US Marshall office should have taken the case very responsibly and sensitively.

Also, the point is the evacuation of maid's family makes no sense. Reference of "evacuation" and why it was required - Preet's statement.

Sorry to say, I don't want to act like an apologist.

first- I can't make out what it is that you are trying to communicate here

"First, all I am saying is from what US office told. They told about strip search and as for informing consulate, these type of cases are sensitive that's why special considerations are taken so that no strain in relations occur"

please rephrase it

US marshal's did take it very seriously. they gave her two hours of sitting in their car with her cellphone calling everyone. they did not handcuff her at all on the scene

the word " evacuation" is a word used. can't help you if you guys get all twisted over just a word that has no meaning on what took place.

why should she be afforded a special case ( other than discretion of a strip search) ? was the maid given a "special case" by this consular worker?

 

[rubyjackass]

why should I ask preet. It seems indians in India think the word " evacuate" is too touchy obviously.

Why is the word evacuate so touchy for you, it is just a term/word he used, it is not a legal term or basis.

Even so - The "evacuated" was the family... is the family guilty if one member is suspect? Is that how laws work in India? If your sister goes out and commits a crime in another city, in india do they put your entire family " under seize"... because every blood relationship is automatically guilty.

How law works in India is immaterial for USA. It is not USA's business to help Indian citizens escape Indian law.

I know this, the reason why you guys are so touchy is because the word " evacuate" is enflaming. It is all over the silly choice of words Preet chose to use. There was no black hawk copters or special forces here ...

Preet should have said " asylum' from the harassment of the elites on this poor family!



you constantly talking through your arse.

salary has to meet minimum wages and labor laws of the country you are residing in and not where you come from! mor__n

It is not just what the word evacuate meant. But the act of pulling out citizens of a friendly country implicitly calling the country's justice system as inferior. Indian courts are there to protect Indian citizens from 'harassment of the elite'. No case would stand without evidence.
It is obvious who is talking through his arse without getting the real issue. You are the moron that does not get that evacuation always does not have to be by black hawks. It is not about the choice of words, but the choice of actions.