India signs accord with France to purchase 36 Rafale

[PARIKRAMA]

http://www.dassault-aviation.com/fr...se/press-kits/vers-un-contrat-rafale-en-inde/
@Vauban @anant_s @Abingdonboy
The contract signing is max within 4 weeks conservatively as per Stephane Fort as per press release of Dassault
It looks like the deal offset and manufacturing line is needed to be signed post DPP 2016 as i said earlier, Signing in Feb 2016, implying most probably release of funds by march end. Bang at the book closure timeline to avoid outflow before that..

 

[[Bregs]]

At last the deal is signed and it would be sweeter is the road map for future acquisition of this aircraft is also included

 

[PARIKRAMA]

Great finally the deadlock has broken
The deal is 90% assured as to leaders signed the IGA .

@PARIKRAMA what happend to 2 scorepene subs
Agreement

Nothing in media as of now
Source says Discussion happened on two fronts
1. Additional Scorpenes in MDLpost the present 6

OR

2. P75I to be made in MDL only with a french design of Shortfin Barracuda with specs similar to SEA 1000 bid of Australia.This can be a continuity post these 6 scorpene orders.

France in discussions has centered around a much better design being offered and the learning can be directly replicated in the SSN project of India. This way the hull manufacturing and the noise reduction + sub technology gets transferred without any hindrance.

India has to come back which option it wants

 

[Ankit Kumar]

Did i observe something..
See when Prez Obama comes its more of words saying strategic strategic strategic...
When its Russia its friendship friendship friendship....
When it comes to Japan, its Special Strategic and Global Partnership ..
When it comes to France the word is strong

Devoid of any fanfare in terms of liberal usage of English words, it seems India does very well business with France in multiple fields. The same is also said about Indo Japan relationship which is expanding.
The second one term of friendship is slowly waning its importance.
The first one is like a good salesman, all speech, high price products with numerous strings attached..

Thats the beauty of India France relations.. we just do it.. dont talk big.. but achieve what we want to achieve without too much fanfare..



Well for Rafales
The Commercial contract in annexure was supposed to be signed along with the IGA. It looks like we are trying to get more discounts for the price of Euro 100 Mn quoted by newspapers. So commercial annexure could not be signed but as Prez Hollande says it will be done in couple of days.

Both the leaders Prez Hollande and PM NaMo would not have signed an IGA without guarantee that the commercial part will be signed soon. The negotiations and Prez Hollande iteration about MII clearly implies talks are far more elaborate and much wider in scope.

Yes we should wait for fineprint but you can be assured of one thing. India is a part of Rafale team with this IGA formalization and signature.



For MOU
"Nine French companies signed MoUs with Engineering Projects India (EPI) Ltd, a public sector company fully owned by the government of India.

The French companies are Alstom Transport, CAN, Dassault, EDF Energies Nouvelles, Egis, Lumiplan, Pomagalski, Schneider Electric and Thales"
http://www.newindianexpress.com/business/news/India-France-Ink-16-MoUs/2016/01/25/article3243279.ece

Well this " Discount " word is what is creating doubts in my mind. No manufacturer is going to sell India at a loss, Dassault will not sell India Rafales at a price where it is not able to at least recover the manufacturing costs. And by this I mean Dassault will not sell us at a price less than 110 million US dollars per aircraft. Excluding other things.

Great finally the deadlock has broken
The deal is 90% assured as to leaders signed the IGA .

@PARIKRAMA what happend to 2 scorepene subs
Agreement

The follow on will be discussed only when 50% of the present order is delivered to Navy.

 

[Abingdonboy]

The follow on will be discussed only when 50% of the present order is delivered to Navy.

You think that 18 of the IAF's 36 are going to the IN?

 

[Ankit Kumar]

@Abingdonboy
That reply was for the submarines. Navy ain't getting Rafales so soon.

 

[SrNair]

France supported us in our most difficult times .
Now they are receiving that benefits .India likes France , even though France is a NATO member .It is a powerful nation that can even stand against US when situation arises .
IAF is totally addicted to Rafale .I think in near future the number will again rise .

 

[Abingdonboy]

@Abingdonboy
That reply was for the submarines. Navy ain't getting Rafales so soon.

Exactly.

 

[Ankit Kumar]

France supported us in our most difficult times .
Now they are receiving that benefits .India likes France , even though France is a NATO member .It is a powerful nation that can even stand against US when situation arises .
IAF is totally addicted to Rafale .I think in near future the number will again rise .

1. France no longer is in a position to stand up against US.
2. IAF is a big fan of Rafale => Yes
More Rafales will come => Yes
But the first Rafale isn't coming before 2020. That's the situation.

 

[SrNair]

1. France no longer is in a position to stand up against US.
2. IAF is a big fan of Rafale => Yes
More Rafales will come => Yes
But the first Rafale isn't coming before 2020. That's the situation.

First Rafale will coming within 2 years if we signed this deal within months ,in this year .
France is already indicated that they will divert their assembly lines for their customers including us .We are directly buying that from France .
France is a European nation that still have socialist idealogy among their people .
After 1998 ,entire West ,US and EU turned against us ,except one .That was France ,they gave us the same support like that of Russia .You will realize who will be your close friend when you face difficulties .India already noted their good will gesture and now they are reaping the benefits.
You should know another facts .France decided to develop their own new gen fighter when they rejected the not good offer of other EU powers for a combined EU next gen jets that can compete US fighters .Others combined created their own EFT and France developed their own Rafale .

 

[Ankit Kumar]

First Rafale will coming within 2 years if we signed this deal within months ,in this year .
France is already indicated that they will divert their assembly lines for their customers including us .We are directly buying that from France .
France is a European nation that still have socialist idealogy among their people .
After 1998 ,entire West ,US and EU turned against us ,except one .That was France ,they gave us the same support like that of Russia .You will realize who will be your close friend when you face difficulties .India already noted their good will gesture and now they are reaping the benefits.
You should know another facts .France decided to develop their own new gen fighter when they rejected the not good offer of other EU powers for a combined EU next gen jets that can compete US fighters .Othresebined created their own EFT and France developed their own Rafale .

1. Why the timeline 2020?
a. There are two nations who have ordered Rafale before us, a combined order of 48 aircrafts .
b. The deliveries of Rafale to French Navy and French Airforce resume after 2017 .
c. And the production rate cannot be made 18 aircrafts per year in 6 Months.

Even if I consider 18 aircrafts per year from today , you may yourself calculate that India isn't getting its first Rafale before 2020 .

And in 2017 , France starts to retire its Super Etendards, no chance of further delays in deliveries to French Navy.

2. Yes of course , France was one of the few nations who supported us in sanctions, but its more than 15 years since.
Yes I agree about the general population and their thinking, but the matter of fact is that from Africa to Middle East, you can see that the foreign policy of France is not decided without taking US's advice.
This trend was of course before too,but in recent years it has only increased.

 

[Tshering22]

PM Modi ji addressing the India-France Business Summit in Chandigarh:

https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=806028842842595

 

[Abingdonboy]

1. France no longer is in a position to stand up against US.
2. IAF is a big fan of Rafale => Yes
More Rafales will come => Yes
But the first Rafale isn't coming before 2020. That's the situation.

1. Why the timeline 2020?
a. There are two nations who have ordered Rafale before us, a combined order of 48 aircrafts .
b. The deliveries of Rafale to French Navy and French Airforce resume after 2017 .
c. And the production rate cannot be made 18 aircrafts per year in 6 Months.

Even if I consider 18 aircrafts per year from today , you may yourself calculate that India isn't getting its first Rafale before 2020 .

And in 2017 , France starts to retire its Super Etendards, no chance of further delays in deliveries to French Navy.

2. Yes of course , France was one of the few nations who supported us in sanctions, but its more than 15 years since.
Yes I agree about the general population and their thinking, but the matter of fact is that from Africa to Middle East, you can see that the foreign policy of France is not decided without taking US's advice.
This trend was of course before too,but in recent years it has only increased.

France assured India of delivery of first Rafales within 2 years. Even under MMRCA the maximum was 36 months, 4 years is far too long.

 

[PARIKRAMA]

Source based information
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

• IAF Rafales flyaway versions are going to be superior to MMRCA evaluated version F3-OT4
• India and France have agreed that Indian Rafales under Make In India will be F3R not F3 OT4. This reduces MLU cost significantly and brings in a commonality in production
• The deal size and commitment is said to be same as FrAF numbers in equal proportions
• The present FrAf need is 225 and old bird replacement will see the final tally to be around 350-400
• The IAF + Navy combined is initially at 225 and then at a subsequent date a review and more new order mechanism will be initiated for new orders
• 2 Rafales will come in 2017 and then rest will be delivered in 2018,19,20
• For the beginning period certain Rafales from FrAf will be loaned for training and squadron formation
• Initial training for pilots will be in France for which pilots selected will leave by year end to France

@Vauban @Abingdonboy @anant_s
If source based info turns out true, dynamics are changing for good.
Now dont know what these 36 are superior in what manner. I remember IRST additionally.. may be something more is also there.

 

[anant_s]

Source based information
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

• IAF Rafales flyaway versions are going to be superior to MMRCA evaluated version F3-OT4
• India and France have agreed that Indian Rafales under Make In India will be F3R not F3 OT4. This reduces MLU cost significantly and brings in a commonality in production
• The deal size and commitment is said to be same as FrAF numbers in equal proportions
• The present FrAf need is 225 and old bird replacement will see the final tally to be around 350-400
• The IAF + Navy combined is initially at 225 and then at a subsequent date a review and more new order mechanism will be initiated for new orders
• 2 Rafales will come in 2017 and then rest will be delivered in 2018,19,20
• For the beginning period certain Rafales from FrAf will be loaned for training and squadron formation
• Initial training for pilots will be in France for which pilots selected will leave by year end to France

@Vauban @Abingdonboy @anant_s
If source based info turns out true, dynamics are changing for good.
Now dont know what these 36 are superior in what manner. I remember IRST additionally.. may be something more is also there.

Numbers are going to rise as we move ahead. I think 10 squadrons (with 18 each birds) isn't really a funny guess anymore now. Rafale is IAF's new workhorse, next decade onwards.
PS: i think this deal now puts pressure on Russia to deliver on FGFA. It is looking more and more likely that if Indian Private companies start assembling and later manufacturing Rafales, India will take its own sweet time to decide on FGFA. Infact the delay is going to work in favor of India based purely on budgetary constraints.