India should learn a lesson from Pak army

[INDTAM]

oye when is the test yar i finished learning the lesson

 

[Rafi]

I hope all the wishy washy peaceniks on our side learned their lesson, the indian state is, and always will be our enemy, they cannot be trusted. I am proud of our forces professionalism, from tracking the helicopter from within IOK - to our fighter pilots intercepting the heli within a few kilometers of the LOC. To our officers conducting the interrogations.

Pakistan Zindabad.

 

[ares]

The OP needs to know Atlantic incident happened right after Kargil war(in which one Indian fighter and a heli was shot down by Pakistani forces perched in Kargil heights).

Besides Pakistani Navy Atlantique was given a chance to land Indian airbase ..instead it tried to make a run to the border..it was only then was it shot down.

Do you think if Indian heli which was Pakistani airspace tried to make a run for India airspace ..it would not have been shot down??

 

[Contract Killer]

Helicopter episode a great opportunity for India, Pakistan

B Raman

The handling of the October 23 incident involving an Indian Army helicopter straying into Pakistan air space should be used as a starting point for setting up a more substantial military-military relationship between the armies of the two countries as a distrust-reducing measure, writes B Raman

On October 23, 2011, an Indian military helicopter with four military personnel on board strayed into the Pakistani air space in the Skardu region of Gilgit-Baltistan due to bad weather.

According to official accounts of the Pakistani Army, the occupants of the helicopter consisted of one Lt Col, two Majors and a junior commissioned officer. On detecting the crossing of the helicopter into Pakistani air space, planes of the Pakistani Air Force took off and made it land in the Skardu area.

After questioning the occupants of the copter regarding the circumstances under which it crossed over into Pakistani air space, they were allowed to take off and return to the Kargil area of India the same day within a few hours.

According to official accounts emanating from New Delhi, the armies of the two countries sorted out the incident in a professional and cordial manner by using the hotline that exists between the Directors-General of Military Operations of the two countries.

Even though the incident was unintentional, the Pakistan Army could have played it up as having a sinister motive and detained the copter and its occupants ostensibly for long interrogation.

At a time when the Pakistani Army is under tremendous pressure from the US to mount operations against the sanctuaries of the Haqqani network, Gen Ashfaq Pervez Kayani, its Chief of the Army Staff (COAS ), could have exploited the incident to mount a PSYWAR against India in order to project as if Pakistan continued to face a military threat from India.

The Pakistan Army resisted that temptation, treated the incident in the low-key in which it deserved to be treated, consciously avoided dramatising it and let the chopper and its occupants fly back to India within a few hours

This speaks highly of Gen Kayani as a military professional.

His positive and cool reflexes as reflected during the incident need to be noted, acknowledged and hailed by India.

The way the Pakistani military and political leadership resisted the temptation to exploit the incident for ulterior purposes needs to be highlighted and praised.

We do not hesitate to criticise what we see as the negative traits and reflexes of the Pakistan Army in matters relating to India.

In equal measure, we should not hesitate to highlight and hail the positive traits and reflexes of the Pakistani military leadership. The manner in which the Pakistani military leadership handled the incident is worthy of high praise.

One is reminded that during the crisis in Indo-Pakistan relations after the terrorist attack on the Indian Parliament in December 2001, Gen Kayani was the Director-General of Military Operations in Rawalpindi.

It was reported that the US was highly impressed by the cool manner in which he handled the crisis. He has shown a similar cool temperament this Sunday.

Should the good vibrations generated by the Pakistani gesture remain an isolated act without follow-up? I don't think so.

This should be used as a starting point for setting up a more substantial military-military relationship between the armies of the two countries as a distrust-reducing measure. This is the time for us to consider inviting Gen Kayani to visit India.

One should note too the commendable restraint shown by the media of the two countries in reporting on the incident. This augurs well for the future.

Good Initiative............... We need friendship

 

[ashokdeiva]

Pakistani Army did correct, the crew of the Indian Army Chopper did what is correct. So issue resolved..
No more recalling of old stories which not part of the history books. doing so will invite a troll feast and you people know is better than any one.
The platform for peace should be set and this mistrust of calling "Hey you are my enemy should stop on both the side". The scars of the post Partition left a memory that is still haunting us and even everything is set to change we are not ready to forget the past. This attitude is going bring us more harm than trust and friendship.

 

[Veeru]

Bull crap thread and failed attempt.

As the Pak navy aircraft incident was in war time during Kargil and present is of peace time.

During war time every aircraft of enemy should be shot and that's professionalism.

 

[harshad]

the thread is non sence,how can you compare a 1999 after war incident(that to within a month) a current 2011 incident

 

[Irfan Baloch]

The OP needs to know Atlantic incident happened right after Kargil war(in which one Indian fighter and a heli was shot down by Pakistani forces perched in Kargil heights).

Besides Pakistani Navy Atlantique was given a chance to land Indian airbase ..instead it tried to make a run to the border..it was only then was it shot down.

Do you think if Indian heli which was Pakistani airspace tried to make a run for India airspace ..it would not have been shot down??

I wish you were right but the PN plane was shot down as a revenge for the two INAF planes that Pak air defence shot down. There was no plan to take prisoners.

so they were already waiting for an opportunity and they found PN plane that couldn’t defend itself and shot it down. Pakistan should have known better.

I wont criticise India, it was war time and they seized the chance and scored a very big kill. Bringing in morality and fairness in all this is waste of engery.

During the Afghan occupation, when PAF started to shoot down Afghan & Soviet planes then they threatened with shooting down any Passenger and transport plane they could as a revenge and the PAF paid the heed and started to escort all passenger and transport flights including the commercial ones that flew on the Western side of Pakistan and no such thing happened.

When the news broke out of two Indian Air force jets being shot down I was sure that Indians will retaliate and wont spare any chance be it transport, or recon or a passenger plane and use the heat of the moment to justify their kill and so they did. A propeller plane vs a jet interceptor was no match whether it was within Pakistani space or dangerously near the border. What chance do you think the Atlantic pilot flying a propeller plan would have had to evade a jet fighter? A fast interceptor was used that scored the kill and PN paid a heavy price for not having any air or ground defence to prevent that loss.

 

[karan.1970]

I wish you were right but the PN plane was shot down as a revenge for the two INAF planes that Pak air defence shot down. There was no plan to take prisoners.

so they were already waiting for an opportunity and they found PN plane that couldn’t defend itself and shot it down. Pakistan should have known better.

I wont criticise India, it was war time and they seized the chance and scored a very big kill. Bringing in morality and fairness in all this is waste of engery.

During the Afghan occupation, when PAF started to shoot down Afghan & Soviet planes then they threatened with shooting down any Passenger and transport plane they could as a revenge and the PAF paid the heed and started to escort all passenger and transport flights including the commercial ones that flew on the Western side of Pakistan and no such thing happened.

When the news broke out of two Indian Air force jets being shot down I was sure that Indians will retaliate and wont spare any chance be it transport, or recon or a passenger plane and use the heat of the moment to justify their kill and so they did. A propeller plane vs a jet interceptor was no match whether it was within Pakistani space or dangerously near the border. What chance do you think the Atlantic pilot flying a propeller plan would have had to evade a jet fighter? A fast interceptor was used that scored the kill and PN paid a heavy price for not having any air or ground defence to prevent that loss.

Nice and touching but just speculations.. Wont say that its not possible, but there is nothing to refute the official version...

 

[raavan]

Helicopter episode a great opportunity for India, Pakistan

B Raman

The handling of the October 23 incident involving an Indian Army helicopter straying into Pakistan air space should be used as a starting point for setting up a more substantial military-military relationship between the armies of the two countries as a distrust-reducing measure, writes B Raman

On October 23, 2011, an Indian military helicopter with four military personnel on board strayed into the Pakistani air space in the Skardu region of Gilgit-Baltistan due to bad weather.

According to official accounts of the Pakistani Army, the occupants of the helicopter consisted of one Lt Col, two Majors and a junior commissioned officer. On detecting the crossing of the helicopter into Pakistani air space, planes of the Pakistani Air Force took off and made it land in the Skardu area.

After questioning the occupants of the copter regarding the circumstances under which it crossed over into Pakistani air space, they were allowed to take off and return to the Kargil area of India the same day within a few hours.

According to official accounts emanating from New Delhi, the armies of the two countries sorted out the incident in a professional and cordial manner by using the hotline that exists between the Directors-General of Military Operations of the two countries.

Even though the incident was unintentional, the Pakistan Army could have played it up as having a sinister motive and detained the copter and its occupants ostensibly for long interrogation.

At a time when the Pakistani Army is under tremendous pressure from the US to mount operations against the sanctuaries of the Haqqani network, Gen Ashfaq Pervez Kayani, its Chief of the Army Staff (COAS ), could have exploited the incident to mount a PSYWAR against India in order to project as if Pakistan continued to face a military threat from India.

The Pakistan Army resisted that temptation, treated the incident in the low-key in which it deserved to be treated, consciously avoided dramatising it and let the chopper and its occupants fly back to India within a few hours

This speaks highly of Gen Kayani as a military professional.

His positive and cool reflexes as reflected during the incident need to be noted, acknowledged and hailed by India.

The way the Pakistani military and political leadership resisted the temptation to exploit the incident for ulterior purposes needs to be highlighted and praised.

We do not hesitate to criticise what we see as the negative traits and reflexes of the Pakistan Army in matters relating to India.

In equal measure, we should not hesitate to highlight and hail the positive traits and reflexes of the Pakistani military leadership. The manner in which the Pakistani military leadership handled the incident is worthy of high praise.

One is reminded that during the crisis in Indo-Pakistan relations after the terrorist attack on the Indian Parliament in December 2001, Gen Kayani was the Director-General of Military Operations in Rawalpindi.

It was reported that the US was highly impressed by the cool manner in which he handled the crisis. He has shown a similar cool temperament this Sunday.

Should the good vibrations generated by the Pakistani gesture remain an isolated act without follow-up? I don't think so.

This should be used as a starting point for setting up a more substantial military-military relationship between the armies of the two countries as a distrust-reducing measure. This is the time for us to consider inviting Gen Kayani to visit India.

One should note too the commendable restraint shown by the media of the two countries in reporting on the incident. This augurs well for the future.

Good Initiative............... We need friendship

Precisely the reason for this thread.

 

[INDTAM]

I wish you were right but the PN plane was shot down as a revenge for the two INAF planes that Pak air defence shot down. There was no plan to take prisoners.

so they were already waiting for an opportunity and they found PN plane that couldn’t defend itself and shot it down. Pakistan should have known better.

I wont criticise India, it was war time and they seized the chance and scored a very big kill. Bringing in morality and fairness in all this is waste of engery.

During the Afghan occupation, when PAF started to shoot down Afghan & Soviet planes then they threatened with shooting down any Passenger and transport plane they could as a revenge and the PAF paid the heed and started to escort all passenger and transport flights including the commercial ones that flew on the Western side of Pakistan and no such thing happened.

When the news broke out of two Indian Air force jets being shot down I was sure that Indians will retaliate and wont spare any chance be it transport, or recon or a passenger plane and use the heat of the moment to justify their kill and so they did. A propeller plane vs a jet interceptor was no match whether it was within Pakistani space or dangerously near the border. What chance do you think the Atlantic pilot flying a propeller plan would have had to evade a jet fighter? A fast interceptor was used that scored the kill and PN paid a heavy price for not having any air or ground defence to prevent that loss.

I wish you were right but the PN plane was shot down as a revenge for the two INAF planes that Pak air defence shot down. There was no plan to take prisoners.


I don't agree. They didn't follow the protocol hence that incident.
Even your pilot in the past did that in which Chief Minister of Gujarat died (one of the passenger) in the rann of Kutch area i Presume.

All this happened in the past now if we (Indians and Pakistanis)drag this then there will be no end to it.

 

[raavan]

I hope all the wishy washy peaceniks on our side learned their lesson, the indian state is, and always will be our enemy, they cannot be trusted. I am proud of our forces professionalism, from tracking the helicopter from within IOK - to our fighter pilots intercepting the heli within a few kilometers of the LOC. To our officers conducting the interrogations.

Pakistan Zindabad.

You should always be careful before generalizing. There are some of us who realize the importance of this gesture by Pakistan and rest of us will also understand its importance soon enough.

 

[nForce]

Two wrongs dont make things right.... But saying My wrong was right and your wrong was wrong doesn't make any sense either....

---------- Post added at 05:11 PM ---------- Previous post was at 05:10 PM ----------



Khalid Mehmood.... His body was received on the day we let your kashmir singh go....3 hours after kashmir singh release.....

Lets take things simply,the pilot was shot in cold blood,after ejection.Thats wrong.Any incident of similar kind ,thats wrong as well.I hope I make myself quite clear.

 

[nForce]

I wish you were right but the PN plane was shot down as a revenge for the two INAF planes that Pak air defence shot down. There was no plan to take prisoners.

so they were already waiting for an opportunity and they found PN plane that couldn’t defend itself and shot it down. Pakistan should have known better.

I wont criticise India, it was war time and they seized the chance and scored a very big kill. Bringing in morality and fairness in all this is waste of engery.

During the Afghan occupation, when PAF started to shoot down Afghan & Soviet planes then they threatened with shooting down any Passenger and transport plane they could as a revenge and the PAF paid the heed and started to escort all passenger and transport flights including the commercial ones that flew on the Western side of Pakistan and no such thing happened.

When the news broke out of two Indian Air force jets being shot down I was sure that Indians will retaliate and wont spare any chance be it transport, or recon or a passenger plane and use the heat of the moment to justify their kill and so they did. A propeller plane vs a jet interceptor was no match whether it was within Pakistani space or dangerously near the border. What chance do you think the Atlantic pilot flying a propeller plan would have had to evade a jet fighter? A fast interceptor was used that scored the kill and PN paid a heavy price for not having any air or ground defence to prevent that loss.

whatever we say,the facts cannot be covered up.The PN Atlantique indeed crossed the border,violated Indian airspace and defied the warnings.Pakistan had raised this issue in the ICJ,Hague.But Pakistan eventually lost the case after the proofs were in the favour of India.I think that settles the matter beyond any doubt,IAF did not cross the border to score that kill.

 

[ares]

I wish you were right but the PN plane was shot down as a revenge for the two INAF planes that Pak air defence shot down. There was no plan to take prisoners.

so they were already waiting for an opportunity and they found PN plane that couldn’t defend itself and shot it down. Pakistan should have known better.

I wont criticise India, it was war time and they seized the chance and scored a very big kill. Bringing in morality and fairness in all this is waste of engery.

During the Afghan occupation, when PAF started to shoot down Afghan & Soviet planes then they threatened with shooting down any Passenger and transport plane they could as a revenge and the PAF paid the heed and started to escort all passenger and transport flights including the commercial ones that flew on the Western side of Pakistan and no such thing happened.

When the news broke out of two Indian Air force jets being shot down I was sure that Indians will retaliate and wont spare any chance be it transport, or recon or a passenger plane and use the heat of the moment to justify their kill and so they did. A propeller plane vs a jet interceptor was no match whether it was within Pakistani space or dangerously near the border. What chance do you think the Atlantic pilot flying a propeller plan would have had to evade a jet fighter? A fast interceptor was used that scored the kill and PN paid a heavy price for not having any air or ground defence to prevent that loss.

First there is no revenge in war..

Second, according IAF pilots and radar operator, the PN Antlantiqe which had crossed over to the Indian airspace was challenged two Migs from Naliya airbase.

The aircraft was asked to land on nearest Indian airbase..but it did not respond to international protocols.
PN aircraft instead sharply banked to port, to make way towards the international border..this is when clearance shoot was given by radar operator.

PN plane tried to make a dash towards the international border..that is why(because of its final trajectory) part of debris fell Indian side of the border and other part fell on Pakistani side.

Running is not an option when you are outgunned.. capturing an intact aircraft is a much better prize than one which has been shot down.