India set to buy 42 more Russian Su-30 fighter jets

[Kinshuk]

As far as I know, the two MKIs crashed so far were Made in India.. Please correct me, but one was for sure.

I really doubt HAL's production capabilities, they haven't practiced lean principles yet, which should be made mandatory for them by GOI before they can produce anymore.

 

[Hulk]

As far as I know, the two MKIs crashed so far were Made in India.. Please correct me, but one was for sure.

I really doubt HAL's production capabilities, they haven't practiced lean principles yet, which should be made mandatory for them by GOI before they can produce anymore.

There is a lifecycle of everything, we will get better in time to come.

 

[sancho]

Lets check your list, what India will have in 2020

1. 272 SU-30MKI ----> Yes
2. 126 MMRCA ----> Yes (may be more than 126)
3. 51 upgraded mirage ----> Yes
4. 250 PAKFA -----> No (as it will start coming only in 2017)
5. 250 LCA ---> LCA (will definitely come, not sure abtout numbers)
6. 78 mig 29 ---> Yes (may be more of the advanced version)
7. 45 mig 29K (Navy) ---> Yes
8. 100 mig27 ----> Yes (they are upgadred but by 2020, we may have 60 odd mig27)
9. Mig23 ----> No (All ready phased out)
10. Mig21 bison ---> No (will be phased out by 2020)
11. Jaguars ---> Yes (You forget to mention it.)

As indianrabbit said, those 2 MKI should be replacements for those that was lost in accidents, so 270 MKIs.

126 MMRCAs are doubtful till 2020, going by a similar production rate as we saw at MKI, I would say 18 + 60 licence produced.

FGFA, hardly 1, or 2 squads in that timeframe.

LCA should be less too, 40 x MK1 and 100 to 150 MK2 at max till then.

Mig 27 will be phased out and mainly replaced by MKI, only 2 squads (32 fighters) were upgraded and the only Mig 23 that are in service are used as Mig 27 trainers.

Mig 21 Bisons will be replaced squad by squad with MMRCA winner, so they might need a bit more time to replace them all.

Although all reports hints that 100 Jags will be upgrade, it will be interesting to see if IAF really want's that. They are dedicated strike fighters and might be only useful in large numbers, if we take an MMRCA with less developed A2G capabilities (EF, Mig 35, Gripen NG). Otherwise they will only stay in reserve for war times, because be it F16 IN, Rafale, F18SH, as well as present MKIs, or upgrade Mirage, they all are more capable than the Jags.

 

[Kinshuk]

Sancho,

Will it not be wise to procure 50% MMRCA off shelf and rest produce in India? That will speed up the induction and that is, not to mention, should be our priority. We will have the same expertise. I know the question of employment generation comes in the picture but I don't think it is wise to compromise on time line.

 

[Luftwaffe]

That i predicted, that india will go for 300 su-30s well 42 more if not close to 300 still figure would be around 270-272..

 

[LCA Tejas]

That i predicted, that india will go for 300 su-30s well 42 more if not close to 300 still figure would be around 270-272..

India has already ordered more than 280.. after the contact was signed on 2007 for extra 40 sukhoi 30 MKI.... and this 42 will take the fleet count to over 300.

 

[sancho]

Sancho,

Will it not be wise to procure 50% MMRCA off shelf and rest produce in India? That will speed up the induction and that is, not to mention, should be our priority. We will have the same expertise. I know the question of employment generation comes in the picture but I don't think it is wise to compromise on time line.

This would increase the costs for sure and could rule out EF, or Rafale, if they get too costly. Also ToT seems to be a big requirement, the bigger the order and the more we produce at home, the more ToT could be provided. Don't forget that fighters like EF are already producing huge orders of the member countries and Saudi Arabia, F18SH have still many fighters to build for USN, so even they could have problems to produce an additional order of IAF.
Also MMRCA will replace the Bisons and they are upgraded to stay in service till at max 2025, more important is a fast induction of LCA, because that will decide how long we will have shrinking squad numbers.

 

[thebrownguy]

The new ones ordered are to be made in India?

 

[Kinshuk]

A bit off Topic,

But Can someone please advise if LCA is a better or at par with JF 17? I heard its turning radius is not very impressive and it takes more than 800 Meter runway to take its flight. I have just heard all this so please don't pounce on me. I just expect an honest comparision with JF 17.

 

[Kinshuk]

The new ones ordered are to be made in India?

We wouldn't have to order them, if we have to make them in India.

 

[sancho]

India has already ordered more than 280.. after the contact was signed on 2007 for extra 40 sukhoi 30 MKI.... and this 42 will take the fleet count to over 300.

No it was 50 at the beginning, 140 under licence + 40 in 2007 (-2 that was lost) and these 42 would give a total of 270.

 

[thebrownguy]

India has already ordered more than 280.. after the contact was signed on 2007 for extra 40 sukhoi 30 MKI.... and this 42 will take the fleet count to over 300.

Sir, are you sure about this. The popular thought was always that the original number was 230. Can you please post a link regarding this, not to back your point, just for my interest.
thanks

 

[LCA Tejas]

A bit off Topic,

But Can someone please advise if LCA is a better or at par with JF 17? I heard its turning radius is not very impressive and it takes more than 800 Meter runway to take its flight. I have just heard all this so please don't pounce on me. I just expect an honest comparision with JF 17.

LCA is not yet operational... so comparing that is not going to yield any thing constructive

 

[Shashanka]

India set to buy 42 more Russian Su-30 fighter jets

i heard HAL achieved 100% indegeneous capability to produce flankers. Then why do we need to buy them from russia at the first place. someone explain, thanks.

 

[NSG_BlackCats]

Before commenting on your figures let me tell you, all we are doing here are bringing out our own imagination mixed with a little bit of facts.

As indianrabbit said, those 2 MKI should be replacements for those that was lost in accidents, so 270 MKIs.

Who knows what will be the final figures of SU-30MKI in IAF. From 90 odds in 1996 to 270 in 2010. IAF may opt for more as now they have two war front doctrine.

126 MMRCAs are doubtful till 2020, going by a similar production rate as we saw at MKI, I would say 18 + 60 licence produced.

MMRCA is not yet clear, whether it will go to one vendor or two different vendors. Who knows to speed up procurement IAF may go for 2 vendors 100 each. IAF has experience in handling mirage. So it may very well be Rafale and F-18. But these are all speculation going around.

FGFA, hardly 1, or 2 squads in that timeframe.

I was not taking about FGFA. I was taking about PAK-FA. Do not forget IAF will be getting 50 PAK-FA and 200 FGFA. So PAK-FA will start coming by 2016 and FGFA 2018 (as per reports).

LCA should be less too, 40 x MK1 and 100 to 150 MK2 at max till then.

Let’s not jump our gun on LCA-MK2. We know IAF is getting 40 LCA. As I said in my previous post the final number for LCA will depends upon its performance.

Mig 27 will be phased out and mainly replaced by MKI, only 2 squads (32 fighters) were upgraded and the only Mig 23 that are in service are used as Mig 27 trainers.

MKI and mig27 are all together in different class. I am not sure about the number of mig27 we have by 2020. 10 years too long a period. As far as I know all the mig23 are phased out of IAF. If you can provide me any source that it is now used as a trainer for mig27, I will be more than happy.

Mig 21 Bisons will be replaced squad by squad with MMRCA winner, so they might need a bit more time to replace them all.

Wrong again. LCA is supposed to replace mig21 and BISONs not MRCA.