India sends foreign minister to China after Obama visit

[Yizhi]

That's why I suspect that's kinda like a compromise between different schools in Washington, end up doing both China and Russia at the same time.

i somehow question the seriousness of the 'pivot'. either this is a mistake made by US, or they just think China is not as a threat as Russia? 'never do both at the same time' should be the lesson NO.1 in geopolitics.
i wonder how close the sino-US relationship is now. maybe closer than we think?

 

[Shotgunner51]

I think the US Pivot had an expectation that the Europeans could take care of themselves (since Russia was quiet) and the US could shift forces from Europe to Asia. With NATO expanding and slowly swallowing up the Eastern bloc there was an expected "Well it is now pretty much all of us against you now..so please behave". Ukraine may have been one of the last pieces in that puzzle.

ISIS is something that won't be permanent.

With China the US will pull the same thing. They'll get many of the countries that surround China all unified and paranoid. So now China will have a group that says "Well it is now pretty much all of us against you now..so please behave".

It was expected China and Russia would eventually get together.

I doubt US is unaware of the relevance (or irrelevance) of EU in dealing with a though economically weak but resource-rich and militarily-tough Russia. Remember Victoria Nuland's "Fxxk the EU" cursing? NATO yes, but EU can't, it's obvious. What's NATO without US? Moreover, it's economic warfare, asymmetrical warfare at a new height, NATO or even EU doesn't matter (check Euro's recent performance).

Sure ISIS maybe a temporary phenomenon, but the deep rooted problem about ME is still there. It's all about US' ME strategy/philosophy, the core problems will not go away if nothing fundamental is changed, and that chance is very vague.

Unlike Russia, China is the Voldermot. US' over-emphasize on security ties, threat creation, doesn't look effective. I don't know what best strategy for US to counter China, I am not in a position to say either.

So yes, China and Russia will go closer eventually. The other powers like EU & Japan would at best play some wing-man role for US.

 

[Hamartia Antidote]

So yes, China and Russia will go closer eventually. The other powers like EU & Japan would at best play some wing-man role for US.

It's going to be hard doing anything on the world stage with a lot of countries glaring at you suspiciously.

 

[Shotgunner51]

i somehow question the seriousness of the 'pivot'. either this is a mistake made by US, or they just think China is not as a threat as Russia? 'never do both at the same time' should be the lesson NO.1 in geopolitics.
i wonder how close the sino-US relationship is now. maybe closer than we think?

As I said I suspect it's a result of compromise between the two opposing schools of hawks, or between Obama-led-democrats and GOP, that's politics, I don't know but just it is self-contradicting indeed.

I can't describe whether China and US are close or not, that's kind of sendimental. The hard fact is that their interests are intertwined, not just economically but more. Of course there are differences but anything vital to survival? None. China may become economically than bigger US? So what, that's not bad for anyone incl US. On the opposite, the benefits of collaboration is huge for both to take best advantage out of the existing world order, CCP knows that, I believe the guys who control Washington knows that as well.

It's going to be hard doing anything on the world stage with a lot of countries glaring at you suspiciously.

Yes, China knows that very well. And being a communist country will draw more suspicious sights than US which hold a lot more soft power in her hands, China knows this too, just have to find ways deal with its image problem.

That's why China is taking solids steps in building bi-lateral relationships, one by one. Example, just signed FTA with South Korea, Australia, Switzerland. No naval base abroad, only dual purpose facilities. No army base abroad, only peace-keeping missions, but it could be permanently stationed in the country that need help.

China knows how other countries view her, no delusions.

 

[kadamba-warrior]

How do you explain the 3-way meeting when a Russian will participate?

Not sure why such a fuss over this meet! TOI reports the 3-way meet was planned originally for August last year but was postponed at India's behest.

"The external affairs minister will also attend the RIC meeting with her Chinese and Russian counterparts. The meeting was earlier scheduled to take place in August but Swaraj cancelled her travel which was to take place just ahead of Modi's visit to Japan."

Swaraj to travel to China tomorrow; Jaishankar to accompany - The Times of India

 

[Keel]

Not sure why such a fuss over this meet! TOI reports the 3-way meet was planned originally for August last year but was postponed at India's behest.

"The external affairs minister will also attend the RIC meeting with her Chinese and Russian counterparts. The meeting was earlier scheduled to take place in August but Swaraj cancelled her travel which was to take place just ahead of Modi's visit to Japan."

Swaraj to travel to China tomorrow; Jaishankar to accompany - The Times of India

There is no fuss but not many are keeping an eye on the prior cancelled event and now when the meeting is re-scheduled particularly in the immediate wake of Obama's visit, it seems like an urgency

 

[Yizhi]

.................

 

[mike2000]

I think the US Pivot had an expectation that the Europeans could take care of themselves (since Russia was quiet) and the US could shift forces from Europe to Asia. With NATO expanding and slowly swallowing up the Eastern bloc there was an expected "Well it is now pretty much all of us against you now..so please behave". Ukraine may have been one of the last pieces in that puzzle.

ISIS is something that won't be permanent.

With China the US will pull the same thing. They'll get many of the countries that surround China all unified and paranoid. So now China will have a group that says "Well it is now pretty much all of us against you now..so please behave".

It was expected China and Russia would eventually get together. It was to show Europe that China will pick Russia over them and show India that Russia will pick China over them. Back to 1950ish.

Agree with you completely bro.

You killed me there. Nice 1 bro.

 

[Keel]

Agree with you completely bro.

You killed me there. Nice 1 bro.

not enough?
Wanna be the next dancing partner?

 

[mike2000]

not enough?
Wanna be the next dancing partner?

, not with that tail behind my back.

 

[Steakhouse]

India government play up China threat to win more concession from Obama visit only deepen both China and Russia doubtful with India cooperation between trilateral nations Russia, China, India to create a multipolar world. Ally with US to contain China serve only one purpose for the continuation of serving US the only sole superpower of the world. India will be hard press to convince China and Russia that India none alliance foreign policy, India to remain as a non alliance foreign policy wouldn't try it best to sell the idea of India and US together will effective counter China rise when Obama last visit India. Russia currently fight for their own survival, containment of China have significant impact on Russia financial and geopolitical condition. Russia know China is the main player that can help Russia in multifaceted of West economy sanction and complete geopolitical isolation. Russia suspicion of India will abandon Russia in the hrs of need for India currying up more favor from US relation.

 

[mike2000]

India government play up China threat to win more concession from Obama visit only deepen both China and Russia doubtful with India cooperation between trilateral nations Russia, China, India to create a multipolar world. Ally with US to contain China serve only one purpose for the continuation of serving US the only sole superpower of the world. India will be hard press to convince China and Russia that India none alliance foreign policy, India to remain as a non alliance foreign policy wouldn't try it best to sell the idea of India and US together will effective counter China rise when Obama last visit India. Russia is currently fight for their own survival, containment of China have significant impact on Russia financial and geopolitical condition. Russia know China is the main player that can help Russia in multifaceted of West economy sanction and complete geopolitical isolation. Russia suspicion of India will abandon Russia in the hrs of need for India currying up more favor from US relation.

Is that a crime? Afterall, India doesn't owe anything to Russia, so India can side/partner with whoever she wants as far as it s serves its interests. That's how geo politics is played. There are no permanent friends, just interests. If India comes to see that siding with the U.S /west will serve its interests better, then she won't hesitate to do it. After all, we have no real issues/differenceswith India unlike with China and Russia. So India won't take any measures against the west/U.S when we don't pose any real threat to them(in fact we are seeking their cooperation).

Russias economy is already in duldrums and will keep being that way for a long time (irrespective of our sanctions) , since its economic fundamentals relies on natural resources /oil and gas which are vulnerable to changes and thus are unsustainable. So Russia is in a slow and steady decline anyway, apart from their soviet era arms industry (nuclear weapons) they don't have much which can keep us on our toes/worried. India will play with time, but it sure will do what's best for its interests, not based on some 'love' for mother Russia. Lool

 

[Steakhouse]

Is that a crime? Afterall, India doesn't owe anything to Russia, so India can side/partner with whoever she wants as far as it s serves its interests. That's how geo politics is played. There are no permanent friends, just interests. If India comes to see that siding with the U.S /west will serve its interests better, then she won't hesitate to do it. After all, we have no real issues/differenceswith India unlike with China and Russia. So India won't take any measures against the west/U.S when we don't pose any real threat to them(in fact we are seeking their cooperation).

Russias economy is already in duldrums and will keep being that way for a long time (irrespective of our sanctions) , since its economic fundamentals relies on natural resources /oil and gas which are vulnerable to changes and thus are unsustainable. So Russia is in a slow and steady decline anyway, apart from their soviet era arms industry (nuclear weapons) they don't have much which can keep us on our toes/worried. India will play with time, but it sure will do what's best for its interests, not based on some 'love' for mother Russia. Lool

India send their foreign minister to China for a meeting with both Russia and China to make the clarity of India and US relation, no nation on the planet can determine one nation from conduct their foreign policy or have any relationship of their choice with other nation. Russia and China have the right to know the stand from India position regard to Russia India relation, China and India relation. If India view both Russia and China nothing more but just something India can used it on US to further India interest, India doesn't need to have the meeting with both Russia and China. Geopolitic is a no sum game, India still not in the position that can afford to be hostile to both China and Russia.

 

[Chinese-Dragon]

India in such a hurry, which is unusual to Indians' habitual practice
Your thoughts are welcome!

Modi is not a usual Indian.

The Economist called Modi's province Gujarat as "India's Guangdong".

Gujarat's economy: India's Guangdong | The Economist

I really love these emoticons.

 

[TaiShang]

i'm a little baffled by the action of US. why they keep poking Russia right in the sore spot even after Russia's relatively 'nice and quiet' behavior? Russia doesn't matter any more? US even pushed Europe to do the sanctions which Europeans clearly were very reluctant to do. and Russia was pushed into China's arms which should've been the last thing US wanted to see.

I guess the incursions inti Russia’s strategic periphery has become a part and parcel of the Pivot. So long as a unified and relatively strong Russia (economically) China will always have a huge strategic hinterland as it is squeezed in SCS and ECS. Consider the Syrian War as part of strategy.lf Assad falls, the Russia-China axis will have relatively weakened.

Obama has threatened Syria about his "red line" even after Russia's backing but nothing has happened other then covert / proxy actions instituted by USA

Georgia is another one in which NATO and US camp have lost their full protection against Russian invasion

Russia has never been "quiet" as I quoted on some more incidences above

Putin wont allow Russia to back down on territorial confrontations or when the core interest of Russia is jeopardized

The tussel of powers between Russia and USA have been going on non stop when NATO and US have been wrestling the old USSR associated countries out of the Russian influence

Ukraine is a classic point - first the orange revolution, then the change of presidency and another revolution so called Revolution of Dignity and the ousting of a pro-Russia democratically elected president Yanukovych - all events bear the significant involvement of Russia and NATO even before the current Ukrainian civil war

ln Syria, ISIS seems to be the game changer. Unlike Turkey’s frantic pleas, President Obama hinted that a solution without Assad would be impractical. Now back to square one. Compare this with Clinton’s frantic efforts to pull a UN action against Syria at the UNSC.