India selects EF, Rafale for MMRCA shortlist

[SpArK]

You can buy this from EADS.. They used to make this in 50's.. Really glad that Dassault could finally produce this...
Way to go Dassault.. Now try to develop a Colored version of this..

And they are still using it for EFT...

Rafale's version is different its got color instead of EFT's black and white which EFT still uses..

 

[jha]

And they are still using it for EFT...

Rafale's version is different its got color instead of EFT's black and white which EFT still uses..

Nah..They moved on to color in Tornado itself..These days, EFT has Plasma screen..
Rafale has colour CRT..?amazing development by Frenchies..

 

[Jon Snow]

Spectacular Cockpit of Rafale.. Very nicely designed.. I like it.. I think our Pilots will be thrilled, if Rafale gets in..

dunno man typhoon cockpits are awesome too

 

[SpArK]

Nah..They moved on to color in Tornado itself..These days, EFT has Plasma screen..
Rafale has colour CRT..?amazing development by Frenchies..

Thats cool since EFT has nt got a working AESA and all jobs are done by Tornadoes, the plasma is useful to watch some HD movies while onboard.

Rafale has LED Screen now with touch.

If an EFT comes in that screen , the Rafale pilot just need to touch the screen and EFT goes KABOOM.

 

[Jon Snow]

ok seeing the two of them together - I'd have to go for the rafale cockpit as well..... eft's cockpit looked great when seen independently but comparing , it just doesnt match up to the rafale's

 

[jha]

Thats cool since EFT has nt got a working AESA and all jobs are done by Tornadoes, the plasma is useful to watch some HD movies while onboard.

Rafale has LED Screen now with touch.

If an EFT comes in that screen , the Rafale pilot just need to touch the screen and EFT goes KABOOM.

In EFT Pilots dont have to touch..STAR-WAR Helmets...

Coming back to AESA..Why have substandard Radar with ~840 modules when with one year gap, can have world beater radar with 1400 modules ..

 

[Jon Snow]

Overall- the rafale is a better option for today- but if the eurofighter fulfills all its promises for the future version (t3b), and it will if india joins the program and funds it then it will be the better option for the future

 

[Jon Snow]

Just became a full member and voted for -----

 

[brational]

ok seeing the two of them together - I'd have to go for the rafale cockpit as well..... eft's cockpit looked great when seen independently but comparing , it just doesnt match up to the rafale's

french r cool in avionics & designs.. The cockpit seems like a perfect gaming module.. Everything is catchy and handy.. Just a pilot is missing to do the rest.. Shooting n bombing..

 

[sancho]

Pics of the Air Show, from the Dassault Aviation website:

Rafale Demo

More here:

Galerie Photo - Photothque Dassault Aviation



Static display

Galerie Photo - Photothque Dassault Aviation



Dassault Aviation booth

Galerie Photo - Photothque Dassault Aviation



Dassault staff

 

[sathya]

EFT cockpit...

http://www.dcs-plaza.de/wp-content/uploads/ef_cockpit_02.jpg

 

[angeldemon_007]

^^^
Rafales cockpit looks like a generation ahead.....

 

[kingdurgaking]

^^^
Rafales cockpit looks like a generation ahead.....

Actually you are wrong.... the real fact is EFT's cockpit is generation ahead of Rafale... Rafale is jack of all trades.. it has everything but nothing outclasses(everything fits into Indian requirement).. but EFT is ahead in certain area(especially cockpit) but needs time and fund to improve or outclass Rafale considerably

 

[sudhir007]

Rafale News: Eurofighter very touchy after Rafale team claims superiority

It seems that the trench war has begun between the Eurofigter and Rafale teams. The Eurofighter web site is trying to dicard the Dassault and Thales claims stating that the European consortium was a "cooperation of incompetencies" and that the Selex AESA radar was 5 years behing the the RBE-2AESA :

"With Thales claiming to be five years more advanced in AESA radar technology than its competitors with its future Rafale radar and with Dassault claiming that the Eurofighter programme is an example of incompetencies, the French look to be on the defensive."

Well, reading this I would rather say that the Rafale team is on the offensive. Anyway, if it is true that Dassault's claim is rather crual, there is nevertheless some truth in it. Indeed, it is a known fact that the Eurofighter project has been delayed by serious technical issues due to the fact that each company involved wanted workshare on technologies they did not master. As a result, the program is very late and more expensive than the Rafale despite a much larger development team and a higher production rate.

As for the Thales statement, The first RBE-2 production radar has been delivered in 2010 and the first production Captor-E is now expected in 2014 if there is no delay. So that's, at minimum, a 4 years gap (may be not technology wise but at least in term of availability for the export market). Ok, that's not 5 years, but not far from it nevertheless. In fact the Eurofighter team is now in a hurry to field this new radar in order to keep the gap with the RBE-2 as small as possible because any delay will be seen a major setback by export customers.

The next paragraph is an attempt to boast about the Eurofighter ecomical achievement while in fact the figures tell more about how slow and inefficient the program has been compared to the Rafale :

"For a programme like Eurofighter which has a huge economic impact in the four partner nations with 100,000 long-term jobs secured, 400 large, medium and small companies participating in the programme, 280 aircraft delivered (just six less than the total number of Rafale planned - but not ordered yet – and to be produced in total!) from a planned 707, six air force customers included two export nations, in-service in 16 units across Europe, Asia and South America, 120,000 flying hours flown, and total operational and combat proven as multi-role platform, these claims by the French look to be more a sign of weakness than of strength"
The "280 aircrafts delivered" statement is interesting because that's in fact a weakness when you consider that there are 4 assembly lines. So, that's an average of 70 planes per assembly line which is 30% less than the Rafale assembly line that has produced more than 100 aircrafts.
Then there is the wild assumption that 707 eurofighters will be ordered and produced. The reality is less shinny when all the partners nations are reducing their orders or using some of their batch as a reserve for export customers.
I will not come back on the boasting about the Eurofighter chassing sea gulls in the Falklands (South america units), nor will I smile to the "combat proven and total operational multirole platform" claim which seems a bit exaggerated for a plane that has merely demonstrated timid LGB strike capabilities. So much Eurofigters (remember, 280) in service but so few actual operational usefulness (what about stand off strike, Sead and recce capabilities ?) ...
Eventually, such a limited achievement can only be considered as a disappointment for a workforce that large (remember, 100,000 jobs, 400 companies).

The last sentence is precious :
"So, no JSF for India, no marketing leading radar for Thales and no satisfaction for a programme like the Rafale that should concentrate on delivering a better return to the French taxpayer than on attacking its competitors."

Right, no JSF for India, but JSF for UK and Italy to fill the eurofighter capability gaps.
The French taxpayer is most probably very pleased with an aircraft that can conduct all missions, today, even from an aircraft carrier and during the first day of a conflict.

 

[Jon Snow]

actually the euro radar will be technologically more advanced with higher range than the rbe 2 aesa .... Also the production variant of the rbe2 might also be using american t/r modules (like the td was using)......there has been noo news that thales has developed its own t/r modules....... American t/r modules are at the whims of the americans- they can block them anytime like they did the elta 2052