India selects EF, Rafale for MMRCA shortlist

[wakapdf]

YOU LUCKY BASTAR--DS. HAVE FUN

 

[kingdurgaking]

Thank you for your respect towards me.I may be 16 but my heart lies in defence and military stuff.i love every minute in PDF.i have become so interested in defence by following u guys for the past three years.i have just started my Class-XI and i want to join IAF as a fighter pilot.i love india,armed forces and i love all indian members here that's what inspires me to share my lil knowledge which have with all my bhaiyas.

do your grades well .... and opt for good academy in defence which gives a good post

 

[Abingdonboy]

HA! French are going all out man!

Forgive me for my ignorance regarding the MRCA, but just wondering if the french are providing any sort of tech-transfer...
Original Post By Patanjali
HA! French are going all out man!

The French government has cleared full technology transfer of the Rafale to India, including that of the RBE2-AA Active Electronically Scanned Array (AESA) radar (which will be integrated with the Rafale by 2010) and the transfer of software source codes, which will allow Indian scientists to re-programme a radar or any sensitive equipment if need be. Without the software source codes, the IAF would have to specify mission parameters to foreign manufacturers to enable configuration of their radar, seriously compromising security in the process.
Dassault has also offered to fit the Kaveri engine into the Rafale, which, if chosen, would greatly improve commonality with the Tejas aircraft that will enter service into the IAF by 2010. Concerns have been raised about cost issues as well as potential sales to Pakistan, which has also expressed interest in the Rafale. However, no such jets have been sold to Pakistan, and India and France have recently agreed to "go beyond a buyer-seller relationship".



Look at that deal!!! Almost too good to be true!!

I assume ^^^ that if/when IAF go for Rafale that a possible sale to PAF will be out of the question? Especially as the PAF could not compete in numbers especially after recent economic history?

 

[Asian.Century]

How many LCA squadrons are flying with IAF? How many super kool, Tejas in inventory? LCA is a Mirage copy in any case, sorry to bust your bubbles.

The reference as earlier put was a deep dent on the so-called Indian "indigenous" efforts as compared to Pakistan; that if, it was a home-made fighters success, MMRCA deal was 'NOT' necessary at all. Pakistan is not looking to buy Rafales, EF as it is now self-sufficient to make Jf17s, J10s and further make strides in "Joint-Ventures" with China.

Neighbours envy, owners pride.

LOL - No envy at all, infact it will good fighting and hunting.

The point is, its a failure of Indian Air Force to look for foreign western aircrafts when it says its Tejas and LCAs are a success story. And Rafale is not shown to be a success jet as of late if sweet add-ons hadn't been put by French Govt.;

Rather IMO, along EF - F18 Silent Eagle or Gripen NG could have been a deadly combo if at all India wants to buy high-fi foreign aircrafts. Pakistan is partly happy for Rafale deal and partly worried due to the lethal Euro-Fighter.

 

[Abingdonboy]

How many LCA squadrons are flying with IAF? How many super kool, Tejas in inventory? LCA is a Mirage copy in any case, sorry to bust your bubbles.

The reference as earlier put was a deep dent on the so-called Indian "indigenous" efforts as compared to Pakistan; that if, it was a home-made fighters success, MMRCA deal was 'NOT' necessary at all. Pakistan is not looking to buy Rafales, EF as it is now self-sufficient to make Jf17s, J10s and further make strides in "Joint-Ventures" with China.


LOL - No envy at all, infact it will good fighting and hunting.

The point is, its a failure of Indian Air Force to look for foreign western aircrafts when it says its Tejas and LCAs are a success story. And Rafale is not shown to be a success jet as of late if sweet add-ons hadn't been put by French Govt.;

Rather IMO, along EF - F18 Silent Eagle or Gripen NG could have been a deadly combo if at all India wants to buy high-fi foreign aircrafts. Pakistan is partly happy for Rafale deal and partly worried due to the lethal Euro-Fighter.

Firstly- what has this to do with the LCA? A- NOTHING.

Secondly- sour grapes? It was clear whatever IAF picked you would have said- no threat PAF is best AF in the world! The IAF today can easily handle the PAF, in 2020 once a significant amount of MMRCA and PAK-FA/FGFA are nducted you won't even be able to touch them! Rafale or EFT PAF is scr£wed!

 

[relativiti]

How many LCA squadrons are flying with IAF? How many super kool, Tejas in inventory? LCA is a Mirage copy in any case, sorry to bust your bubbles.

The reference as earlier put was a deep dent on the so-called Indian "indigenous" efforts as compared to Pakistan; that if, it was a home-made fighters success, MMRCA deal was 'NOT' necessary at all. Pakistan is not looking to buy Rafales, EF as it is now self-sufficient to make Jf17s, J10s and further make strides in "Joint-Ventures" with China.


LOL - No envy at all, infact it will good fighting and hunting.

The point is, its a failure of Indian Air Force to look for foreign western aircrafts when it says its Tejas and LCAs are a success story. And Rafale is not shown to be a success jet as of late if sweet add-ons hadn't been put by French Govt.;

Rather IMO, along EF - F18 Silent Eagle or Gripen NG could have been a deadly combo if at all India wants to buy high-fi foreign aircrafts. Pakistan is partly happy for Rafale deal and partly worried due to the lethal Euro-Fighter.

i smell someone's A$$ burning

 

[below_freezing]

Indians celebrate when they buy a foreign aircraft and cry when they see their own.
Chinese celebrate when they see their own and cry when they buy foreign.

Such is the difference between us. Hope you're happy with the Rafales.

 

[Abhishek_]

@ AU, how many F16s does PAF operate, and how many J17s are in service?

 

[relativiti]

Indians celebrate when they buy a foreign aircraft and cry when they see their own.
Chinese celebrate when they see their own and cry when they buy foreign.

Such is the difference between us. Hope you're happy with the Rafales.

correction
Chinese celebrate when they copy foreign and cry when they buy foreign.

 

[Pfpilot]

Asian Union
I feel like you are giving too much credit to the Pakistani indigenous capability, our home made fighter success is largely a result of Chinese growth in aeronautics, they provided the avionics, designed the plane and our jf-17s carry Chinese armaments. Pakistans role is ever increasing but lets not compare with the LCA, whatever it is now, the IAF doesn't have the same urgency that the PAF does. India does not have the same fear of sanctions and lack of funds...they can easily scrap the whole program and buy all their planes from the outside if they so desired.

As for the topic at hand. Both Rafale and Eurofighter are superb aircraft, cant go wrong with either. I would think the Rafale fits the role of a multi role aircraft better. Having the Eurofighter will replicate many of the strengths of the su-30mki. None the less, either way, the IAF wins. The PAF also loved the two aircraft, and if we had the money back in the day, we most probably would have gone for them.

 

[Asian.Century]

Firstly- what has this to do with the LCA? A- NOTHING.

Secondly- sour grapes? It was clear whatever IAF picked you would have said- no threat PAF is best AF in the world! The IAF today can easily handle the PAF, in 2020 once a significant amount of MMRCA and PAK-FA/FGFA are nducted you won't even be able to touch them! Rafale or EFT PAF is scr£wed!

LCA as said is not sufficiently ready or infact a failed deal, which pushes the Indian requirement to have a must MMRCA. If India was confident of LCA, Tejas to take out PAF/Chinese Fighter Aircrafts, you should not be buying or wasting too much money buying Rafales and EFs. Invest that money in home, and create a plane ready to shoot your enemy down.

Also PAF had evaluated Rafale and EF jets - EF is considered to be a deadly aircraft but doubt persists on Rafales performance(unless PAF specific upgrades are installed, wont be discussing that). Typhoons and EF are with Saudia's which inadvertently been tested and flown by PAF pilots.

My friend 2020 is far away, talk about now, and who leads now, and who is getting screwed with video clips like, "IAF is loosing edge over PAF etc etc".

Hopefully, there would be much surprises waiting for IAF by 2020, and therefore cannot make conclusions based on your assumptions.

i smell someone's A$$ burning

LOL - kids won't understand the logic. Keep yourself happy with these above quotes, donot need to steep to your level.

 

[Abhishek_]

a decent thread ruined by a single troll. way to go guys

 

[relativiti]

LCA as said is not sufficiently ready or infact a failed deal, which pushes the Indian requirement to have a must MMRCA. If India was confident of LCA, Tejas to take out PAF/Chinese Fighter Aircrafts, you should not be buying or wasting too much money buying Rafales and EFs. Invest that money in home, and create a plane ready to shoot your enemy down.

Also PAF had evaluated Rafale and EF jets - EF is considered to be a deadly aircraft but doubt persists on Rafales performance(unless PAF specific upgrades are installed, wont be discussing that). Typhoons and EF are with Saudia's which inadvertently been tested and flown by PAF pilots.

My friend 2020 is far away, talk about now, and who leads now, and who is getting screwed with video clips like, "IAF is loosing edge over PAF etc etc".

Hopefully, there would be much surprises waiting for IAF by 2020, and therefore cannot make conclusions based on your assumptions.



LOL - kids won't understand the logic. Keep yourself happy with these above quotes, donot need to steep to your level.

great i am blessed with the interaction of a LCA guruji!!
just read the post by pfpilot, it makes more sense

 

[desimorty]

The point is, its a failure of Indian Air Force to look for foreign western aircrafts when it says its Tejas and LCAs are a success story. And Rafale is not shown to be a success jet as of late if sweet add-ons hadn't been put by French Govt.;

Rather IMO, along EF - F18 Silent Eagle or Gripen NG could have been a deadly combo if at all India wants to buy high-fi foreign aircrafts. Pakistan is partly happy for Rafale deal and partly worried due to the lethal Euro-Fighter.

I disagree.
The Rafale, right now is actually in FULL service! including advancement of tactics.
These MMRCA contracts are going hand in hand with the Tejas program. How? well, let me use an example
The Chinese built prototypes of J-10s. The project didn't go onto full scale production until the arrival of equipment used in the manufacturing of Su-27s. Even the J-11 and J-11B are not illegal copies, but licences production aircraft. If the Russians weren't get royalty, they wouldn't have supplied China with engines. But the Chinese are complying with Russian demands for ToT.
The engines the J-10 uses until recently had a service life of 30 hrs compared to 300 hrs of the Russian variant. Now we speculate that the engine is in service. In fact its not completely Chinese. Had it been a completely new design, the aircraft would have required a major airframe change.
Instead, what you actually see, is that the Chinese are Russian hardware, where every domestic products are not on par.
This is to say, today the J-10 wouldn't be possible with out Russian ToT of Su-27s. Basically jumping from manufacturing Fishbeds aka J-7s to J-10s. All this was possible because of the ToT associated with it. The Chinese did pay for much more flankers, than India. They have more in service and each time they modify the airframe, to call it J-11bs or 15, what ever it may be, they still check with the Russians, to see if its actually possible and proceed with at their own risk.
As far as the MMRCA is concerned. This is the same deal as the above.
The manufacturing process is slow and the machines not enough. Even the engine, while a great design is not manufactured properly. We have known issues early that the Kaveri was spitting out blades. So was the the Chinese engine. The MMRCA contract would bring ToT. Not a complete ToT, but what ever is more economical, and can be forwarded to the production and localization of the Tejas.
The French know this. Their bid is desperate and best for a Win-Win.
As far as Gripen, is concerned, while it can have all these things, ToT of the engine will be in the hands of the Americans. The engine ToT is more important than the AESA itself. Not to mention, that if they got these technologies, and implemented it on the Tejas. You would have the same aircraft!
The Hornet, and Falcon will not come with complete ToT, and they do not meet the QSR. While the Falcrum certianly could pull a complete ToT, it failed miserably on QSR.

Like I said, QSR and the lowest bidder. ToT is a must have to upgrade HALs facilities to manufacture a new generation of aircraft.

 

[Yeti]

wow i missed this! being away Spark you made my day with this