India-Russia Divorce and its impact on Indian defence

[nang2]

my comment was also based on current scenario if and buts can go miles but i am too lazy

then you shouldn't even be in this thread since the topic isn't on current scenario.

 

[Armani]

AL31F engine is also used in the Chinese 5th generation fighters which Pakistan is looking forward to acquire.

Looking forward to acquire and actually acquiring are different things. Only J-20 has AL-31 series engines (which is actually outdated on a 5th gen aircraft), and those are just interim engines.

The J-31 uses the same RD-93/33 series as on JF-17 and MiG-29s.

Russia did not block sales of any enginers.

Re-export of any AL-31 series turbofan from China is not allowed as per my sources. I will believe that it's not the case when I actually see an export of Chinese combat jets with the said engine happening to 3rd party countries.

 

[dadeechi]

Even France & US supplied military hardware to China when relations were good between them & the West before the Tiananmen incident. Russia is not economically very strong - they cannot afford to turn away huge deals especially from China.

Besides, China is a close military & economic partner of Russia, especially after international sanctions on the latter following 2014 Crimean incident.

Our relations or deals with Russia does not mean we can dictate what Russia does with other countries.

What exactly did Russia sell to Pakistan? RD-93 engines (through China) is an old model with negligeble performance figures. A handful Mi-17 transport helos are not weapons. And Russia has been consistently blocking the re-export of more capable engines like the AL-31F series to Pakistan (through China again), that ensures that what Russia allows for sale to Pakistan is always at a much lower technological tier than what India is supplied with.

That's one of the reasons why the J-10B/FC-20 deal between China & Pakistan could not go through.



Silence? What, are news not available where you live?

http://www.firstpost.com/world/russ...indias-counter-terrorism-efforts-3011486.html

Russia (and France) are the only two countries that actually mentioned pakistan by name in their condemnation of the Uri incident. You need to keep up with news, and please stop spewing BS.

The OP is trash.

I am not blaming Russia at all. You got it all wrong.

Your response on Russia doing Business with China just expands on my statement.

So you are saying Russia is selling weapons to Pakistan due to Crimean related sanctions?

Why is Russia conducting military exercises with Pakistan? How much money is it going to make?

With regards to Uri, the statement was too little too late.

 

[spectribution]

What a stupid friggin thread. Russia is selling us PAK FA (100% focus on that once rafale sorted out) and nuclear submarines and basically whatever goodies we need and fools are talking of divorce.

Divorce was between US and Pakistan. Now we play both sides and poor little Pakistan gets squished in the middle.

Then the forumers will hail the girth of their red daddy.

 

[dadeechi]

What a stupid friggin thread. Russia is selling us PAK FA (100% focus on that once rafale sorted out) and nuclear submarines and basically whatever goodies we need and fools are talking of divorce.

Divorce was between US and Pakistan. Now we play both sides and poor little Pakistan gets squished in the middle.

Then the forumers will hail the girth of their red daddy.

FGFA deal has been in progress since 2010

Every Indo-Russian meeting since then started with hype that the deal would be closed only to end up as a damp squib.

At the end of the day IAF which is the customer does not like Russian Fighters. They did not like Su-30s and do not like FGFA.

IAF liked M2Ks and would love RAFALEs.

Russia was so unhappy that the Russian Ambassador to India Alexander M Kadakin has said that if India were to go to war with China or Pakistan, the French Rafale fighters that it plans to buy will be ‘swatted like mosquitos’.

http://www.dailypioneer.com/sunday-...ted-like-mosquitoes-in-war-russian-envoy.html

 

[Hephaestus]

If Russia loose one customer even partially they could deal massively with Pakistan which always turned down by Russia on Indian pressure which is fading away, Bangladesh, Pakistan and Sri Lanka jointly replace the loss of one customer.

With all due respect.

I think you are over-imagining Pakistan's ability and capability to spend. Let's not get into B'desh & Sri Lanka. They don't have any substantial requirements that could offset any other customer.

Let's concentrate on Pakistan the obviously bigger potential customer than SL & BD.
A Su35 costs 65mil a pop without the additional h/w and other systems. How many can you afford to buy? Will your obviously powerful army forego it's share of expenditure to get PAF the new jets?
On the other hand I think you will get the new Chinese jet/jets. Which are going to be pretty good themselves. The question is how many?

I personally don't think the relationship(indo-russia) is heading for a divorce. We have a lot of deals in the pipeline. We will keep our best loved ally busy with those.

Interesting times. I must say.

 

[spectribution]

FGFA deal has been in progress since 2010

Every Indo-Russian meeting since then started with hype that the deal would be closed only to end up as a damp squib.

At the end of the day IAF which is the customer does not like Russian Fighters. They did not like Su-30s and do not like FGFA.

IAF liked M2Ks and would love RAFALEs.

Russia was so unhappy that the Russian Ambassador to India Alexander M Kadakin has said that if India were to go to war with China or Pakistan, the French Rafale fighters that it plans to buy will be ‘swatted like mosquitos’.

http://www.dailypioneer.com/sunday-...ted-like-mosquitoes-in-war-russian-envoy.html

Rafale deal on verge of finalisation. PAK FA in advanced design stage + agreement's reached.

LOL Pakistan can't even afford Indian Navy's budget for one quarter if they tried to.

This headless chicken run is getting funnier.

 

[dadeechi]

With all due respect.

I think you are over-imagining Pakistan's ability and capability to spend. Let's not get into B'desh & Sri Lanka. They don't have any substantial requirements that could offset any other customer.

Let's concentrate on Pakistan the obviously bigger potential customer than SL & BD.
A Su35 costs 65mil a pop without the additional h/w and other systems. How many can you afford to buy? Will your obviously powerful army forego it's share of expenditure to get PAF the new jets?
On the other hand I think you will get the new Chinese jet/jets. Which are going to be pretty good themselves. The question is how many?

I personally don't think the relationship(indo-russia) is heading for a divorce. We have a lot of deals in the pipeline. We will keep our best loved ally busy with those.

Interesting times. I must say.

No I am not over-estimating the Business that Pakistan is generating for Russia at this point of time.

That's exactly my point.

I can completely understand Russia doing Business with China but Russia doing business with Pakistan at India's expense is what I am highlighting. Even more so when Russia is engaging in military exercises with Pakistan which do not generate any income at all.

 

[friendly_troll96]

Strategic Fallout
=================================================
Loose Veto at UN
Loose support for NSG
Increased Russia-Pakistan defense ties

 

[dadeechi]

Currently it is loose. In future it would be lose.

 

[friendly_troll96]

Currently it is loose. In future it would be lose.

wah...zabardasti hai..?!

 

[newindiandefence]

This would be good for India . She will stand up on her own foot. When world was not gave us missiles technology Isro made its own and became self relied ..if we don't be dependened on any one we will go for made it in India . And we can do this .

 

[dadeechi]

This would be good for India . She will stand up on her own foot. When world was not gave us missiles technology Isro made its own and became self relied ..if we don't be dependened on any one we will go for made it in India . And we can do this .

The problem would be that India would be jumping from the pan into the fire.

India would not become Independent rather it would get so weak that it would be forced to turn more and more towards the West to survive as a nation.

 

[punit]

have any one noticed .. sudden rise of new born trolls in the forum in last few days ! they all are walking and trolling here as if they are familiar with this garden. care to have a look @Oscar @Irfan Baloch @waz

 

[Asian.Century]

the willingness to sell such a cutting-edge weapon system to Pakistan, India’s archrival, is indeed hugely symbolic in its import for the quality of Russia-Indian relations today

More important, perhaps, weaning Pakistan away from the American orbit is a strategic necessity for Russia and the military cooperation creates leverage both to influence Pakistani policies as well as to provide space for Pakistan to maneuver its way out of Uncle Sam’s decades-old embrace. Russia would estimate that given Pakistan’s enviable geographical location, the US’s regional strategies can never be effective without Pakistan playing its traditional cold-war era role as junior partner.

Russia-Pakistan joint exercises to go head has brought greatest humiliation to India, that it ever faced.