India, Russia discuss $4bn deal for 4 stealth frigates

[Ankit Kumar 002]

All people , wondering about the price of Frigates. Some propositions from my side which may satisfy some questions.

1. The 4 billion quoted here is not the price of just 2 hulls, but 4 frigates with all weapon systems , sensors , etc.

2. The amount has a portion for upgrading a private shipyard in India to be able to build the ships.

3. Training and buying equipment by the shipyard is also included.

4. It also includes the fee which India will pay for obtaining the licence to build these in India.

5.There is also one problem , the shipyard / MoD (Russia ) has actually payed a small part of their assigned budget to Ukraine for which they haven't obtained the equipment. They are not willing to take this loss , so its upon India to negotiate with Ukraine on this issue.

No, you cannot. You have to consider operating cost along with it, ahas called of the class of Tejas/Gripen will have flight per hour cost of 10,000 USD, while a Flanker will exceed 35,000 even under conservative estimates. You cannot afford to spend that much on peace time sorties, neither can a Flanker replace a Mig in terms of quick reaction interception roles.

IAF needs a balance between high performance and low cost multi role aircrafts, too many flankers will disrupt that balance. Either they need to speed up manufacturing of Tejas to 20-25 airframes a year, or acquire F-18SHs as a secondary choice after Rafale. Even F-18s per hour flight cost is almost half of MKIs.

Well this was not me , but its what airforce had conveyed to our Finance minister in 2014 when BJP won and the new government had called a meeting of three forces to note down their needs and concerns.

 

[punit]

The project was sanctioned for the Black sea fleet at a cost of around 350 million $ per frigate in 2009.

we can rely on that figure. our own Frigates costs around 700 millions.

 

[Abingdonboy]

View attachment 332296

NEW DELHI: In what could turn into yet another mega defence deal with Russia+ , bilateral negotiations have gained momentum for India's acquisition of four more stealth frigates for around $4 billion.

Even as the high-level India-Russia Military Technical Cooperation Working Group (MTC-WG) kicked off its two-day meeting in New Delhi on Wednesday, defence ministry sources said Moscow has submitted "a techno-commercial proposal" for the four multi-purpose frigates packed with sensors and weapons, including the BrahMos supersonic cruise missiles.

"Under the proposal, two of the frigates will come from Russia, while the other two will be constructed in India. The MoD has asked for some clarifications before taking a decision on the price and inter-governmental agreement," said a source.

The MTC-WG also discussed other pending mega defence projects like the joint development of the fifth-generation fighter aircraft and Kamov Ka-226T light utility helicopters as well as the Rs 39,000 crore purchase of five S-400 Triumf advanced air defence missile systems, as was reported by TOI on Wednesday.

Russia has apparently dovetailed the frigate project - which was first offered by Russian President Vladimir Putin to PM Narendra Modi over a year ago - with India's aim to lease a second nuclear-powered submarine for around $1.5 billion.

The first nuclear-powered Akula-II submarine INS Chakra - being operated by India since April 2012 after paying $900 million - had also been linked to the bigger $2.33 billion deal for aircraft carrier INS Vikramaditya.

If the deal for the four new 4,000-tonne frigates is indeed inked, they will add to the six Russian stealth frigates already inducted by India. First, three Talwar-class frigates were inducted from Russia in 2003-2004.

They were then followed in 2011-2013 by three Teg-class frigates under a $1.15 billion contract inked in 2006. India is quite satisfied with the Teg-class frigates, which have an operating range of 4,500 nautical miles and can handle threats in all three dimensions - air, surface and underwater.

But a major problem with the new upgraded Teg or Grigorivich-class frigates on offer is that the warships - lying half-constructed at the Yantar Shipyard in Russia due to a cash-crunch - will need Zorya gas-turbine engines from Ukraine.

"Ukraine has refused to supply power plants to Russia because of their continuing bilateral problems. But India can directly acquire the engines from Ukraine," said a source.

India, of course, has begun to construct its own stealth warships, having inducted three 6,100-tonne Shivalik-class frigates. Another Rs 50,000 crore contract for construction of the seven 'Project-17A' stealth frigates - four at Mazagon Docks at Mumbai and three in GRSE at Kolkata - was inked in February 2015.

The Navy currently has around 130 warships as well as 235 aircraft and helicopters. Moreover, the seven P-17A frigates are among the 39 warships and six Scorpene submarines under construction in Indian shipyards for over Rs 3 lakh crore.

But India is now eyeing the Russian frigates since it plans a 212-warship Navy by 2027 to ensure effective safeguarding of its huge geostrategic interests from Persian Gulf to Malacca Strait and beyond.


http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/...-4-stealth-frigates/articleshow/54159343.cms?

There is nothing these upgraded Talwars have that justifies a price tag of $1BN USD each. For that money the IN could get a much more advanced P-17A Frigate or a P-15B DESTROYER. Sure, it would be nice to get an addtional 3 Talwars whilst the P-17As are under construction but not at this price point.

 

[spartacuss]

guys how much billion dollars for Rs 39,000

 

[anant_s]

guys how much billion dollars for Rs 39,000

~USD 5.82 Billion = INR 39,000 Crores (at exchange rate of 1 USD = INR 67)

 

[spartacuss]

~USD 5.82 Billion = INR 39,000 Crores (at exchange rate of 1 USD = INR 67)

thanks burh . that means one core RS equals how much INR rupees . i dont have any idea bout India's currency

 

[anant_s]

one core

Crore is part of Indian Counting system and is equal to 10 million
You can learn more here
Indian Numbering System

 

[Kinetic]

$4 billion for four frigates! Is Parrikar gone crazy??? We need more submarines. Why waste money?

 

[Indrajit]

$4 billion for four frigates! Is Parrikar gone crazy??? We need more submarines. Why waste money?

Best to ignore the figure, however it is very clear that the Russians are linking the purchase of these semi finished frigates with the lease of the nuclear submarine, maybe possibly even with the S-400. The occasional nonsense of probable Pakistani purchase of Su35 etc is also another Russian pressure tactic.

 

[jha]

Best to ignore the figure, however it is very clear that the Russians are linking the purchase of these semi finished frigates with the lease of the nuclear submarine, maybe possibly even with the S-400. The occasional nonsense of probable Pakistani purchase of Su35 etc is also another Russian pressure tactic.

Sooner they junk this attitude, will be better for them.

 

[Ankit Kumar 002]

Best to ignore the figure, however it is very clear that the Russians are linking the purchase of these semi finished frigates with the lease of the nuclear submarine, maybe possibly even with the S-400. The occasional nonsense of probable Pakistani purchase of Su35 etc is also another Russian pressure tactic.

Sooner they junk this attitude, will be better for them.

We shouldn't fall for articles like, Russians linking this for that etc.

Every deal is independent of other.

 

[Indrajit]

We shouldn't fall for articles like, Russians linking this for that etc.

Every deal is independent of other.

Not in the real world .

 

[Ankit Kumar 002]

the real world .

I would better have an example to prove this.

 

[Indrajit]

I would better have an example to prove this.

We don't really need those frigates but we need the nuclear submarine and the S-400. The Russians have underconstruction ships which can never be completed because the Ukranians won't sell them the gas turbine engines to power them. the Russians have to cut their loses, what better way than try & get a deal with India.... there is nothing out of the ordinary in this, it's the you scratch my back & I'll scratch yours...The Russians know that Indian has no other sources for the nuclear submarine or certain other technologies that Russia can alone give. No one else will offer it to us. The Russians are pushing this now because that is the only time they can push it, India desperately needs that nuclear submarine.

 

[Ankit Kumar 002]

We don't really need those frigates but we need the nuclear submarine and and S-400. The Russians have underconstruction ships which can never be completed because the Ukranians won't sell them the gas turbine engines to power them. the Russians have to cut their loses, what better way than try & get a deal with India.... there is nothing out of the ordinary in this, it's the you scratch my back & I'll scratch yours...The Russians know that Indian has no other sources for the nuclear submarine or certain other technologies that Russia can alone give. No one else will offer it to us. The Russians are pushing this now because that is the only time they can push it, India desperately needs that nuclear submarine.

1. We buy the ships or not , but the Russians are resuming construction of this project after the power plant is developed and black sea fleet will have 8 such ships. There's nothing like they are desperate. When we back ourselves to build high tech systems , we shouldn't underestimate Russia, they are more than capable to have a power plant for their ships. You can follow the developments of Russia's next generation gas turbines and diesel engines in the Russian Navy section of Russian Defence Forum. They are going to build corvettes , frigates and amphibious ships all with it.

2. Russia has openly offered 2 SSNs ( refurbished ) and 1 newly built , on " Pay and take basis ". No terms and conditions. And after 3 more Akulas arrived for refurbishment , its upto India , which can virtually get all of them.

With above two points , all you are saying is , " FALSE THEORY ".

I would rather have even one sentence where any , I repeat any Russian official says " SSNs and Frigates" in one line even.

Please stop believing crap being published by dick heads.