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India raises concern over Russian attack copter sale to Pakistan

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About Decade ago Russia would not even have thought about selling anything to Pakistan. Then around 5 years ago it was the engines for JF-17. Now it is Mi-35. Some time in near future it might also be fighters.

A decade a go India would have protested and Russia would have obliged. Five years a go India protested and Russia calmed them. Today Russia ignored Indian protests. When it shall be fighters Russia wouldn't even bother to take India into confidence.

A decade a go India would have proudly said wee we killed the deal. Five years a go India said it is just engines. Today you are saying it is just chopper. Next time you would say it is just fighters.

My dear world is changing. Learn to adapt.
World is changing not for India-Pakistan.pakistan is still a Threat to India As for future.India still aquire almost 70% equipments from Russian Presently. it will change In near future if The Russian stand will continue As for Russia they know were are there priorities lies Pakistan will never match india when it comes to Finance's They Don't want to loose confidence of Indians for few pakistani Cent's as for this M-35 hind chopper deal We will talk about them when you actually get them till then All things are hanging in Between realities and speculations.
 
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The term is double crossers

Getting candy from USA and then getting candy from Russia and telling Russians not to sell stuff to Pakistan
Clearly you have no idea how international relations work
 
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About Decade ago Russia would not even have thought about selling anything to Pakistan. Then around 5 years ago it was the engines for JF-17. Now it is Mi-35. Some time in near future it might also be fighters.

A decade a go India would have protested and Russia would have obliged. Five years a go India protested and Russia calmed them. Today Russia ignored Indian protests. When it shall be fighters Russia wouldn't even bother to take India into confidence.

A decade a go India would have proudly said wee we killed the deal. Five years a go India said it is just engines. Today you are saying it is just chopper. Next time you would say it is just fighters.

My dear world is changing. Learn to adapt.

Well you ignoring the very basic facts that engines / MI-35 are on the verge of phase out aka MIG-21 and amber from both AF as these move of superior Next Gen. platform.

You can fighter jet also but those are given when they are on the phase out mode on the Both AF against Superior ones.

So if Russia give with India's informal approval , it hold no value. Getting .303 in age of AK -47 is not concern to big deal for idea.
 
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Bro there is a massive thread in the Turkish section on the T-129. Our Turkish bros are giving three free choppers with the deal and facilities set up on our soil. It's better than what we could possibly imagine.

Anyway the MI-35 deal has nothing to do with the ATAK.
Thank U sooo much BRO for the update !!!!! I believe then this is a DEAL we cannot refuse , The Mi 35 is a done deal now , Thank GOD , any updates on the T-129 deal , I mean at which stage is it currently in the pipeline ?? when will we get the T-129 deal done bro :)
 
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bwwwwaahahahhahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaahahahaahahahahahaha

one can only imagine the look on sushma swaraj's face

hahahhahahahahahaha


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About Decade ago Russia would not even have thought about selling anything to Pakistan. Then around 5 years ago it was the engines for JF-17. Now it is Mi-35. Some time in near future it might also be fighters.

A decade a go India would have protested and Russia would have obliged. Five years a go India protested and Russia calmed them. Today Russia ignored Indian protests. When it shall be fighters Russia wouldn't even bother to take India into confidence.

A decade a go India would have proudly said wee we killed the deal. Five years a go India said it is just engines. Today you are saying it is just chopper. Next time you would say it is just fighters.

My dear world is changing. Learn to adapt.

Actually even this time the Russians have calmed the Indian government. They haven't ignored anything if you the statements. It was one of the reason why Russia's Deputy PM was in Delhi recently.

As for would , should and could, there is no point speculating what could or would have happened.

But be rest assured, if relations between Russia and India remain same in the years to come and Russia decided to sell fighters to Pak which I seriously doubt, then Indian will certainly object more loudly and assertively and Russia will oblige, if they don't their regular orders from India which will far outstrip anything you can replace , will suffer.

The world has changed but Pakistan still cannot replace the amount of money that can be made from India.
 
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But be rest assured, if relations between Russia and India remain same in the years to come and Russia decided to sell fighters to Pak which I seriously doubt, then Indian will certainly object more loudly and assertively and Russia will oblige, if they don't their regular orders from India which will far outstrip anything you can replace , will suffer.

Well knowing all this , there was no reason for Russians to offer this helicopters to us , at all . The warming of relations could have been in other fields leaving the military co-operation . But strangely they did and later ended the arms embargo too , should tell you that the relations are improving with Islamabad and times are changing .Tell me something , where exactly are you going to get the nuclear submarines , AC's , stealth aircraft , missile tech and other plethora of technologies and hardware not available for sale from anywhere else? The Kremlin isn't the dependent party , on the other hand you have to buy their hardware because nobody else will offer it , not to mention how 70-75% of all Indian equipment being Russian , the spares and technical support will continue to be there in the foreseeable future . You cant cancel that , by any chance . What you can do and are doing is not to place new orders and opt for Western equipment , irking the Reds . Hence this deal offered to Pakistan despite all the billion dollar trade and billion trade defense deals with India . Has Russia obliged to Indian concerns for this deal?

Don't expect anything 5th gen though-As long as we keep doing deals like FGFA with them.

Did you expect this to happen by any chance , all out of a sudden? Just answer me this without going into massive and billions and billions of Indian deal and how the Russians cant even think of loosing that . They are indicating something very different with their actions .

Remember this?

Indian diplomats have reminded their Russian counterparts of very strong statements made by Russian Deputy Prime Minister Dmitry Rogozin on October 14, 2012, during his official visit to India for talks with then-Indian External Affairs Minister SM Krishna. Rogozin had told the Indian media to “spit on my face” if Russia were to arm India’s enemies.

Sample the highly publicized remarks of Rogozin in New Delhi: “You must understand that we do not deal with your enemies. We don't deliver any arms to them.... If you see otherwise, you may spit on my face.”
India fuming over Russia lifting its Pakistan arms embargo, what next? — RT Op-Edge


Are you overlooking the role of China in the engine deal ?
What we overlooking about this deal , offered by the Kremlin and negotiated by Islamabad? The bottom-line is that the RD-93's did come regardless of who negotiated with them and are currently in service with Pakistan , the Russians even then knew the whole story and gave permission for re-export , which seeing the Indian concerns back then too , shouldn't have happened .
 
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About Decade ago Russia would not even have thought about selling anything to Pakistan. Then around 5 years ago it was the engines for JF-17. Now it is Mi-35. Some time in near future it might also be fighters.

A decade a go India would have protested and Russia would have obliged. Five years a go India protested and Russia calmed them. Today Russia ignored Indian protests. When it shall be fighters Russia wouldn't even bother to take India into confidence.

A decade a go India would have proudly said wee we killed the deal. Five years a go India said it is just engines. Today you are saying it is just chopper. Next time you would say it is just fighters.

My dear world is changing. Learn to adapt.


No matter how the world is changing , India with more money and more manpower will always be on the stronger side
 
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World is changing not for India-Pakistan.pakistan is still a Threat to India As for future.India still aquire almost 70% equipments from Russian Presently. it will change In near future if The Russian stand will continue As for Russia they know were are there priorities lies Pakistan will never match india when it comes to Finance's They Don't want to loose confidence of Indians for few pakistani Cent's as for this M-35 hind chopper deal We will talk about them when you actually get them till then All things are hanging in Between realities and speculations.
Well knowing all this , there was no reason for Russians to offer this helicopters to us , at all . The warming of relations could have been in other fields leaving the military co-operation . But strangely they did and later ended the arms embargo too , should tell you that the relations are improving with Islamabad and times are changing .Tell me something , where exactly are you going to get the nuclear submarines , AC's , stealth aircraft , missile tech and other plethora of technologies and hardware not available for sale from anywhere else? The Kremlin isn't the dependent party , on the other hand you have to buy their hardware because nobody else will offer it , not to mention how 70-75% of all Indian equipment being Russian , the spares and technical support will continue to be there in the foreseeable future . You cant cancel that , by any chance . What you can do and are doing is not to place new orders and opt for Western equipment , irking the Reds . Hence this deal offered to Pakistan despite all the billion dollar trade and billion trade defense deals with India . Has Russia obliged to Indian concerns for this deal?

As I said these are just choppers and India has not made big deal of it , even then the Russian Deputy PM was here , I am sure among other things to give assurances to Indian govt. So , no the concerns have been taken are of.

Now, as for what India can do if Russia decided to sell more lethal stuff like Fighters to Pakistan ? We can buy all the stuff we are now buying from Russia from USA, Europe and Israel. As for irking the Reds, we already have multi-billion dollar deals with them , so there is no question of irking the Reds.

You guys are childishly , as usual, reading too much into a chopper deal.
 
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The world has changed but Pakistan still cannot replace the amount of money that can be made from India.

Pakistan don't have to, because China have done it for us and India can't match them. Indian members were jumping saying that they gave $ 40 Billion business to Russia and they can't ignore them, China have just killed it by giving them $ 400 Billion in one deal and many more to come. :D
 
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As for irking the Reds, we already have multi-billion dollar deals with them , so there is no question of irking the Reds.
You guys are childishly , as usual, reading too much into a chopper deal.

The deal shouldn't have been offered at all , seeing your strong and time tested relations with the Kremlin . This is something , you dont seem to understand instead pondering over how the Deput PM was in India to take care of concerns and how these helicopters are old , vintage and now suddenly Russian junk ( which is actually one of the funniest comment I have heard here ) . Why should Indians even present their concerns and Russians reassure New Delhi about the deal , why? Why offer the Hinds in the first place and start the whole chain reaction? That is what I am asking and this what you do not seem to have an answer to . Yes , the deals have been signed and I believe since it isn't available anywhere else , you are forced to buy it . The Russian business is secure the way I look at it . These aren't just choppers , this is a message being sent to Indians on how the Russians having just ended the arms embargo , will now sell military hardware to Pakistan too - not to mention the gradual warming of relations with Islamabad . As usual , you are stuck in billions and billions of defense deals and trade with the Reds without even seeing the bigger picture .

P.S A decade ago , if I told you this that Russians will end the embargo and offer the helicopters to Pakistan , you would have termed me " insane " , the concept simply wasn't there . @ejaz007 Made a good post explaining you about the changing times . Something you need to focus on .

So you are saying Pakistan is a part of China ? :cheesy:

Do you understand the concept of lobbying ?
 
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Eagerly waiting for them to fly in Pakistani colours. Lets shut TTP and Indians for good.
 
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