India persuading Karzai govt for US attack in tribal areas

[Black Stone]

We worked for our nukes for a reason; and it was to eliminate this possibility. If ever the PA is attacked by the US, we will not go down quietly. We WILL fire our nukes in all directions before the Americans can get to them. The Americans know that, so they (or any other country) will never engage the Pakistan army in hostile combat.

You fire nukes, then your pissing the world off and that would mean the end of Pakistan.

 

[solid snake]

Stop dreaming. Pakistan isn't going to fire any nukes in case of an American attack.

You think so? So we defied the international community to build our nukes just for decoration? We will let Islamabad be occupied by foreigners and present our nukes to them as presents?

 

[solid snake]

You fire nukes, then your pissing the world off and that would mean the end of Pakistan.

It would mean the end of Pakistan anyway, since we have seen what has happened to Iraq ever since the US occupied it. Iraq is essentially 4 countries now, and it will break up once the Americans leave.

 

[Black Stone]

It would mean the end of Pakistan anyway, since we have seen what has happened to Iraq ever since the US occupied it. Iraq is essentially 4 countries now, and it will break up once the Americans leave.

The US won't attack Pakistan because she's a nuclear power and we have a situation with Iran. We don't have resources to fight Pakistan.

Besides, your blood brother would not let you fall. They would probably assist you politically.

But if you fire nukes, that would mean the end of Pakistan. It is not worth it.

 

[roadrunner]

You think so? So we defied the international community to build our nukes just for decoration? We will let Islamabad be occupied by foreigners and present our nukes to them as presents?

It's not difficult. Nukes were developed to match India. US is out of reach for Pakistan to have any effect.

Pakistan is not some huge superpower that can take a fight to the US technologically. It's nukes are useless against the US currently, just as India's are.

 

[solid snake]

The US won't attack Pakistan because she's a nuclear power and we have a situation with Iran. We don't have resources to fight Pakistan.

Besides, your blood brother would not let you fall. They would probably assist you politically.

But if you fire nukes, that would mean the end of Pakistan. It is not worth it.

We built the nukes as a deterrent. I said the same thing, that the US will never go to war with the Pakistan Army because we have nukes. I said the same thing before, that the US neither has the will nor the resources to fight Pakistan.

I don't know who you're talking about when you say blood brother. None of Iraq's blood brothers could save it.

And we won't fire nukes until we know we've lost, until the fall of Islamabad is imminent. The US could bring us down if they really wanted, but we'll bring down a lot of cities with us.

It's not difficult. Nukes were developed to match India. US is out of reach for Pakistan to have any effect.

Pakistan is not some huge superpower that can take a fight to the US technologically. It's nukes are useless against the US currently.

Yeah, and the US won't attack Pakistan because we'll nuke India and Israel. There is no doubt if the US army invades Pakistan, India will join in. That's why we'll nuke India too. And Israel is Americas baby, so attacking them would really hurt Americans.

If Pakistan is attacked, by the time our army loses the war, the Americans would have killed a lot of Pakistanis. That would mean a sense of doom and despair would be everywhere. Not a single Pakistani will care about living anymore or the consequences of firing nukes at India and Israel. You seem to be unable to imagine the atmosphere by the conclusion of this worst case scenario.

Once again, why do you think we built our nukes? Under what circumstances do you think we would fire them? Surely impending doom and breakup of Pakistan would be the appropriate time to use them? The army would also be willing to fire them because every army officer who fought against the Americans would be locked up forever or hanged by the Americans.

It would be sweet revenge over those who dared to attack us. Whether you agree with me or not, that's why we built our nukes.

 

[Black Stone]

We built the nukes as a deterrent. I said the same thing, that the US will never go to war with the Pakistan Army because we have nukes. I said the same thing before, that the US neither has the will nor the resources to fight Pakistan.

If there is a new war, it would be with Iran and not Pakistan.

I don't know who you're talking about when you say blood brother. None of Iraq's blood brothers could save it.

China is your blood brother, no other country in this world could be labelled as Pakistan's brother.

And we won't fire nukes until we know we've lost, until the fall of Islamabad is imminent. The US could bring us down if they really wanted, but we'll bring down a lot of cities with us.

No, if US does attack Pakistan, they would make sure you cannot launch your nukes, in terms of how, I don't know, but they would find a way. Until they have a fail safe strategy, US would not start a conflict with Pakistan.

 

[solid snake]

If there is a new war, it would be with Iran and not Pakistan.

There will never be a war between Pakistan/USA. However, life's funny and bizarre things do happen in this world. I'm not only talking short/medium term, I'm talking about if ever.

China is your blood brother, no other country in this world could be labelled as Pakistan's brother.

The fact that China would not be at all pleased with an attack on Pakistan by anyone is yet another reason the US will not ever do anything that destabalizes Pakistan or it's army.

No, if US does attack Pakistan, they would make sure you cannot launch your nukes, in terms of how, I don't know, but they would find a way. Until they have a fail safe strategy, US would not start a conflict with Pakistan.

There is no fail safe strategy to insure that we can't fire our nukes. If you think that's possible, you give us too little credit

 

[roadrunner]

Yeah, and the US won't attack Pakistan because we'll nuke India and Israel. There is no doubt if the US army invades Pakistan, India will join in. That's why we'll nuke India too. And Israel is Americas baby, so attacking them would really hurt Americans.

If Pakistan is attacked, by the time our army loses the war, the Americans would have killed a lot of Pakistanis. That would mean a sense of doom and despair would be everywhere. Not a single Pakistani will care about living anymore or the consequences of firing nukes at India and Israel. You seem to be unable to imagine the atmosphere by the conclusion of this worst case scenario.

Once again, why do you think we built our nukes? Under what circumstances do you think we would fire them? Surely impending doom and breakup of Pakistan would be the appropriate time to use them? The army would also be willing to fire them because every army officer who fought against the Americans would be locked up forever or hanged by the Americans.

It would be sweet revenge over those who dared to attack us. Whether you agree with me or not, that's why we built our nukes.

Pakistan did not build nukes to become a superpower. They were built to counter the nuke threat from India. Now all this "Pakistan will launch an attack on Israel or India (what a joke) scenario is nonsense. First, India holds no value to the US, and the US doesn't care what happens to it. Israel again you're overestimating, but you think of it from the POV that America attacks Pakistan by the air, and let's say Pakistan is dumb enough to respond by nuking Israel (if it can actually do so), what do you think the international community would say? It would give the green light for Israel (or America) to nuke Pakistan. Who is alive at the end of it? Only the US..that is if Israel doesn't have some sort of defence system by then. Therefore, Pakistan will not respond by throwing nukes like some child in all directions. Pakistan did not develop nukes to become a global power, they were developed for defence against India, which was the only threat to Pakistan's existence.

 

[Black Stone]

There will never be a war between Pakistan/USA. However, life's funny and bizarre things do happen in this world. I'm not only talking short/medium term, I'm talking about if ever.

I hope so too, if we do attack Pakistan that would be a serious mistake.

The fact that China would not be at all pleased with an attack on Pakistan by anyone is yet another reason the US will not ever do anything that destabalizes Pakistan or it's army.

Of course not, like I said China is your blood brother. Also, Pakistan would be difficult to swallow by us, let alone with China's political influence.

There is no fail safe strategy to insure that we can't fire our nukes. If you think that's possible, you give us too little credit

I know, I am just giving you a hypothetical situation, if we are silly enough to attack you.

 

[solid snake]

Pakistan did not build nukes to become a superpower.

When did I ever say that Pakistan built them to become a superpower? I did not even imply that. Infact, my previous posts clearly state that if the US wants to, it can defeat Pakistan army in a conventional war. Hardly superpower stuff.

They were built to counter the nuke threat from India. Now all this "Pakistan will launch an attack on Israel or India (what a joke) scenario is nonsense. First, India holds no value to the US, and the US doesn't care what happens to it.

India was the country that prompted us to create our nuclear program. However, India is not our only enemy anymore. The Pakistani military has to keep in mind threats from all sorts of sources, both internal and external. I don't understand why your thinking is so India centric.

And you're seriously telling me that the US will brazenly attack Pakistan without considering the fallout of their actions? The US won't care that instead of allying themselves with the Pakistani military to fullfil their goals, they will undertake a costly (both in terms of money and men) war with Pakistan that will end in nuclear fallout?

The US doesn't want to do anything that destabalizes the whole world. 1 single nuclear explosion will cause a worldwide economic collapse, not to mention a humanitarian crises of epic proportions. So yes, the US very much cares if any country gets nuked.

Israel again you're overestimating, but you think of it from the POV that America attacks Pakistan by the air, and let's say Pakistan is dumb enough to respond by nuking Israel (if it can actually do so), what do you think the international community would say?

No, here is where I think the wedge is in our reasoning. Perhaps all this time you've been thinking of an aerial assault on Pakistan by the USAF or US Navy. I am talking about a full-scale ground invasion meant to bring down the Pakistan government and military. The US can fire all the cruise missiles it wants and drop all the smart bombs it wants from the air, that will never harm the government or army much because the US can't just carpet bomb all of Pakistan. US forces don't kill civilians if they can help it.

The US can bomb the mountainous regions of Pakistan without our consent, but like Musharraf has said, any attempt to do something like that will be considered an act of war and our air force will respond. Perhaps they will bring their shiny F-22s, but we will retaliate by attacking their bases in Afghanistan or wherever they're taking off from. Pakistan is not a banana republic that anyone who wishes can bomb whenever they like.

So since an air foce campaign will be useless without a ground invasion, a US attack on Pakistan will feature a ground invasion, which will likely end in a defeat for the Pakistan army given America's technological might, and then someone will press that dangerous red button and shoot himself in the head before the Amreekies can capture him

Remember once again, that I'm talking about an occupation of all of Pakistan. Our country is a volatile place even right now I cannot imagine how it would remain one country if there is no Pakistan army to hold them together. So there's overwhelming odds that the army will fire the nukes as the last act of the republic of Pakistan.*

*The chances of all this happening are very close to 0

It would give the green light for Israel (or America) to nuke Pakistan. Who is alive at the end of it? Only the US..that is if Israel doesn't have some sort of defence system by then.

There won't be any Pakistan to nuke, plus most of our country will be filled with American troops when we fire them, so no one will fire back.

And if a defense system can be invented against nukes, nukes can be invented that dodge the defense system.

Therefore, Pakistan will not respond by throwing nukes like some child in all directions. Pakistan did not develop nukes to become a global power, they were developed for defence against India, which was the only threat to Pakistan's existence.

Let me tell you what situation I'm talking about. Imagine 1945 Berlin. 4 armies about to overrun the last few units of the German army. If they had nukes, would they have fired them? After the war all German commanders were either executed or imprisoned. That's what's gonna happen to Pakistani army officers, so they really won't give a crap.

This has nothing to do with being a global power, this is like a cornered man about to die who wants to kill as many of his enemies before he himself dies.

What I am describing is what will happen IF Pakistan is attacked by India or America or any other country that wins a conventional war against us. The fact that India will be nuked if they are about to win a war is WHY the nukes protect us from them.

 

[roadrunner]

When did I ever say that Pakistan built them to become a superpower? I did not even imply that. Infact, my previous posts clearly state that if the US wants to, it can defeat Pakistan army in a conventional war. Hardly superpower stuff.



India was the country that prompted us to create our nuclear program. However, India is not our only enemy anymore. The Pakistani military has to keep in mind threats from all sorts of sources, both internal and external. I don't understand why your thinking is so India centric.

And you're seriously telling me that the US will brazenly attack Pakistan without considering the fallout of their actions? The US won't care that instead of allying themselves with the Pakistani military to fullfil their goals, they will undertake a costly (both in terms of money and men) war with Pakistan that will end in nuclear fallout?

The US doesn't want to do anything that destabalizes the whole world. 1 single nuclear explosion will cause a worldwide economic collapse, not to mention a humanitarian crises of epic proportions. So yes, the US very much cares if any country gets nuked.




No, here is where I think the wedge is in our reasoning. Perhaps all this time you've been thinking of an aerial assault on Pakistan by the USAF or US Navy. I am talking about a full-scale ground invasion meant to bring down the Pakistan government and military. The US can fire all the cruise missiles it wants and drop all the smart bombs it wants from the air, that will never harm the government or army much because the US can't just carpet bomb all of Pakistan. US forces don't kill civilians if they can help it.

The US can bomb the mountainous regions of Pakistan without our consent, but like Musharraf has said, any attempt to do something like that will be considered an act of war and our air force will respond. Perhaps they will bring their shiny F-22s, but we will retaliate by attacking their bases in Afghanistan or wherever they're taking off from. Pakistan is not a banana republic that anyone who wishes can bomb whenever they like.

So since an air foce campaign will be useless without a ground invasion, a US attack on Pakistan will feature a ground invasion, which will likely end in a defeat for the Pakistan army given America's technological might, and then someone will press that dangerous red button and shoot himself in the head before the Amreekies can capture him

Remember once again, that I'm talking about an occupation of all of Pakistan. Our country is a volatile place even right now I cannot imagine how it would remain one country if there is no Pakistan army to hold them together. So there's overwhelming odds that the army will fire the nukes as the last act of the republic of Pakistan.*

*The chances of all this happening are very close to 0



There won't be any Pakistan to nuke, plus most of our country will be filled with American troops when we fire them, so no one will fire back.

And if a defense system can be invented against nukes, nukes can be invented that dodge the defense system.



Let me tell you what situation I'm talking about. Imagine 1945 Berlin. 4 armies about to overrun the last few units of the German army. If they had nukes, would they have fired them? After the war all German commanders were either executed or imprisoned. That's what's gonna happen to Pakistani army officers, so they really won't give a crap.

This has nothing to do with being a global power, this is like a cornered man about to die who wants to kill as many of his enemies before he himself dies.

What I am describing is what will happen IF Pakistan is attacked by India or America or any other country that wins a conventional war against us. The fact that India will be nuked if they are about to win a war is WHY the nukes protect us from them.

Almost everything is wrong in that post, but i can't be bothered. This is the bottom line. America can attack Pakistan, and Pakistan cannot use any nukes in retaliation to harm America. And America would attack Pakistan. I believe it was Richard Armitage that made the threat before.

 

[Tiki Tam Tam]

Almost everything is wrong in that post, but i can't be bothered. This is the bottom line. America can attack Pakistan, and Pakistan cannot use any nukes in retaliation to harm America. And America would attack Pakistan. I believe it was Richard Armitage that made the threat before.

Total paranoia.

There is a lot of difference between political posturing and reality!

America has no desire to attack Pakistan.

Your idea is like Dutch courage where you invent an external threat and want all to gird up their loins!

Bravery through togetherness by any means!

Thus Spake Agnostic Muslim:

people in general try and focus their anger and put blame on tangible threats,

 

[roadrunner]

Total paranoia.

There is a lot of difference between political posturing and reality!

America has no desire to attack Pakistan.

Your idea is like Dutch courage where you invent an external threat and want all to gird up their loins!

Bravery through togetherness by any means!

Thus Spake Agnostic Muslim:

people in general try and focus their anger and put blame on tangible threats,

Instead of thinking about "girding up loins" and so on, think about the situation that existed post 911. America had the support of the world to go at any nation they wanted to. They believed that Afghanistan would be a pushover (and Iraq), and no doubts they believed Pakistan would be a pushover too. It made no difference to America whether they bombed Pakistan or not at the time, but they could have done it. And the threat was made as per Musharraf's book. The situation has changed now. America doesn't have the support, resources, or the need to attack a compliant Pakistan. Had Pakistan sided with the Taliban though post 911, the Americans would have flattened the country from the air at least. To do so now, in the current situation would not help them in Afghanistan one bit.

 

[Tiki Tam Tam]

I was only focussing on your misconceived concept of blaming Indians as "butt licker" who allowed the Europeans in.

And you claim to be our In House historian!

Since you feel that Pakistanis were always a different lot by genes and everything else under the sun, so, with the same baseline, I indicated to you that Moguls ( who obviously as per your theory and not mine, would be classified you as 'non Indian') are the ones who gave the firman and by treachery in the Battle of Polashi, allowed the British to entrench themselves in India.