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India-Pakistan Talks - 2010

Lol,You want to bring Swat and FATA in.Man,you really need to read up history.There is no insurgency there,only Balochistan,and Tibet is annexed by China,not Pakistan!
so u r now ready to agree that their is insurgency in baloch,and ya i know tibet was annexed by china,and never said their is uprising in fata and swat,i only said if u can bring assam,i can bring these places also,i mentioned tibet because of the uprising happened their some time ago,but i dont compare that to a freedom movement


,don't come and judge me what I know and what I do not know about Kashmir.

if u dont like my judging then first of all dont try to teach me whats going in my own country,i know my country better than an outsider,i bet u have not been to kashmir even once
 
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My young friend do not take offence but i cannot resist here.

Is it a waste of your own time that your are so upset about and consider all talks futile just because in the past the process was derailed?
Although it seems you do have some time to spare so i think that is not it.

If talking as a concept is a waste of time then why are you wasting your time here?
Or is it that there is indeed merit in exhcange of thought and worth it to talk?

Why this duplicity when you know that our personal exchange is quite trivial compared with what the government level exchange can lead to?

Think about it.

You can choose not to talk, does not mean it is the right thing to do.
Terrorism is not a franchise of Pakistan, it is a global phenomena and terrorists are chaotic and anarchist.
Look around you and you will see many terrorist movements; some even within the confines of India.

Our problem was more complicated due to Afghan conflict and its fallout but today the intent of GOP and PA is in no doubt due to their overtly strict anti extremist stance and their bloody engagement with the terrorists groups which has earned the Pakistanis of the combined wrath of all such groups.
The evidence of this stance is the thousands of our brothers, sisters, mothers, fathers, sons and daughters who have been martyred by terrorist groups in hundreds of attacks.

i know like a responsible citizen u also want peace,thats a good thing
but u dont think these talks r futile if the main matter is neglected(kashmir)and i bet they r not going to disscus it,because the stance is clear,their is nothing to negotiate abt it

and u said that terrorism is not a franchise of pakistan,then how will u explain the united jihad councils open conference in azad kashmir with multiple references to delhi,is pakistan not promoting them
 
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teach me whats going in my own country,i know my country better than an outsider,i bet u have not been to kashmir even once

Man you are so ignorant.I know what's happening in Kashmir and even if I never visit there,I know how its run there.I am never teaching you about your own country, I am making you realise the facts of your own country.

so u r now ready to agree that their is insurgency in baloch,and ya i know tibet was annexed by china,and never said their is uprising in fata and swat,i only said if u can bring assam,i can bring these places also,i mentioned tibet because of the uprising happened their some time ago,but i dont compare that to a freedom movement

There is insurgency in Baloch, I never denied that,by BLA,but at a low level,and your sheer ignorance to include Swat and FATA is despicable,as there is no such insurgency or nationalism occuring there as compared to Assam where insurgency is occuring there. But,the insurgency in Balochistan can't be compared with Kashmir,where the people supports insurgency at a large scale compared to Balochistan.

And why you even bringing up Tibet?Its not even part of Pakistan.Its between India and China,so why involve Pakistan?

Do you have prove that there in insurgency in FATA and Swat due to Nationalism?

http://www.rediff.com/news/jan/17assam.htm

An India pro newspaper even admits about Assam Insurgency,and you are not willing to


So don't try and tell me what I know about Kashmir and what I do not know.Please,unlike you,I am more aware of facts on a neutral basis.

But you know what, I would not want to further enforce this facts on you,you have a choice to either believe it or not,or at least provide a proper argument,So well,have a nice day,enjoyed discussing with you and understanding your point of view
 
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Man you are so ignorant.I know what's happening in Kashmir and even if I never visit there,I know how its run there.I am never teaching you about your own country, I am making you realise the facts of your own country.
ignorence is ur problem man,because u speak just what ur ptv shows
were is protest going in ladakh were buddhist monks and thier population lives,their is no protest in jammu were the hindu population reside,ur these called protest,oh sorry frredom movement in only happening in the kashmir valley by a small group of people,and why do we surrender the entire state to please them and ur nation,but these r not the issue with us,our issue is ur home grown extremists


is insurgency in Baloch, I never denied that,by BLA,but at a low level,and your sheer ignorance to include Swat and FATA is despicable,as there is no such insurgency or nationalism occuring there as compared to Assam where insurgency is occuring there. But,the insurgency in Balochistan can't be compared with Kashmir,where the people supports insurgency at a large scale compared to Balochistan.

And why you even bringing up Tibet?Its not even part of Pakistan.Its between India and China,so why involve Pakistan?

Do you have prove that there in insurgency in FATA and Swat due to Nationalism?

now i can really see ur ignorence,were in the article it is stated that a nationalist movement is going in assam,and for ur knowledge keep little updated on assam,we have broken their back with help of bangladesh,it is not on even our priority list

and u want to show that assam issue is greater than baloch on basis on this article,read my article again my friend in which it is clearly stated as it is growing as ur biggest problem

i never said any nationalist movement is going in swat or fata,did i,but if u bring more places in india saying nationalist movement,i am going to do the same

and about tibet,u r not even been able to understand what point i am showing,so its useless to say it
 
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i know like a responsible citizen u also want peace,thats a good thing
but u dont think these talks r futile if the main matter is neglected(kashmir)and i bet they r not going to disscus it,because the stance is clear,their is nothing to negotiate abt it

and u said that terrorism is not a franchise of pakistan,then how will u explain the united jihad councils open conference in azad kashmir with multiple references to delhi,is pakistan not promoting them

So if India does not talk or negotiate about Kashmir despite clearly understanding the disputed nature of Kashmir (as evident in the statments and committments of past Indian governments), on the other hand the Pakistani state is expected to even ban parties from having open conferences in favour of Kashmiri Freedom movement which has support of majority of Kashmiris in the valley?
That is not something logic and even principles allow us to do.

LET and terrorists groups are banned, however if you really think that same can be done to all the parties that support Kashmiri Freedom Movement, then that is something even India has not managed to do despite having more than half a million troops watching every nook and corner of the valley and suppressing the Kashmiri freedom movement under a clear state mandate of a non negotiabe stance on Kashmir.
It is because a majority of Kashmir Valley supports the cause or is against the current setup, voices which cannot be suppressed easily.

Pakistan considers Kashmir the primary source of conflict and wants to include it in any comprehensive talks with India, on state level Pakistan has cut down hard on any terrorist factions and a dramatic reduction in cross border attacks was acknowledged by those across the border as well, however the same no talk attitude leaves little more for Pakistan to do and actually cements the argument presented by many that no matter what Pakistan does, India is just stalling and will not talk.
We certainly cannot censure the freedom movement for sake of India since on a state level India is not even willing to discuss Kashmir and Pakistan has not acknowledged Kashmir as a settled matter and pretty much seeks a resolution.
What solid assurance can the Pakistani state give to its people and the Kashmiris without discussing things with India and coming to an agreement?

The agreement or resolution on Kashmir is needed and Pakistan would be more than willing to even have a third party mediate the talks but it is India which does not want any mediator and declares it a bilateral matter only between India and Pakistan...
but on the other hand India also adheres to a no talk stance on Kashmir with Paksitan....
So it is a bilateral matter but India will not discuss it with Pakistan?
Who else will India talk to?

There can be many solutions and it is not necessary that India will lose much or Pakistan will lose much in a negotiation, atleast the negotiations and talks should be in place and without any strings attached.

As long as there is a regular forum (requires committment of states) for India Pakistan to come up with a resolution via step by step agreements and an assurance that this forum will not vanish come what may...we can proceed with other agreements and talk about mutual projects without much backlash from Public which (for the most part) will see the logic in such a move.
This will be a positive way to improve the relationship.
 
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‘Resumption of talks with India a positive step’

India’s decision to resume talks with Pakistan was a “positive step”, said Pakistani Foreign Minister Shah Mahmood Qureshi, but he added that the outcome of the talks depends on the Indian response.

“We are ready for meaningful engagement with India,” he told a press conference Thursday in Brussels at the sidelines of an international security conference, EuAsiaNews reported.

“We would want to discuss all issues that have strained our relations over the years,” said Mr. Qureshi, adding: “If we do not recognise those issues then the dialogue will not be meaningful”.

“It depends on the kind of response and mindset of India,” he said. “If they are open minded, if they are constructive then this engagement would lead to other favourable developments, but if they have their mind shut I do not see a meaningful forward movement.”

Mr. Qureshi said he is sending the Pakistani foreign secretary to New Delhi Feb 25 for the talks.

He said the water issue was a “very sensitive issue” for Pakistan and he intends to raise the matter with India very soon.

However, he stressed that it “would be not to blame India” for the water problem saying that Pakistan should utilise its share of water in a more efficient way.


Mr. Qureshi was the keynote speaker at the seventh worldwide security conference organised by the EastWest Institute in the Belgian capital Thursday.

He held talks with EU and NATO officials during his three-day visit to Brussels and also inaugurated a two-day conference of Pakistani ambassadors to Europe with the aim to enhance Pakistan-EU cooperation
 
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So if India does not talk or negotiate about Kashmir despite clearly understanding the disputed nature of Kashmir (as evident in the statments and committments of past Indian governments), on the other hand the Pakistani state is expected to even ban parties from having open conferences in favour of Kashmiri Freedom movement which has support of majority of Kashmiris in the valley?
That is not something logic and even principles allow us to do.

LET and terrorists groups are banned, however if you really think that same can be done to all the parties that support Kashmiri Freedom Movement, then that is something even India has not managed to do despite having more than half a million troops watching every nook and corner of the valley and suppressing the Kashmiri freedom movement under a clear state mandate of a non negotiabe stance on Kashmir.
It is because a majority of Kashmir Valley supports the cause or is against the current setup, voices which cannot be suppressed easily.

Pakistan considers Kashmir the primary source of conflict and wants to include it in any comprehensive talks with India, on state level Pakistan has cut down hard on any terrorist factions and a dramatic reduction in cross border attacks was acknowledged by those across the border as well, however the same no talk attitude leaves little more for Pakistan to do and actually cements the argument presented by many that no matter what Pakistan does, India is just stalling and will not talk.
We certainly cannot censure the freedom movement for sake of India since on a state level India is not even willing to discuss Kashmir and Pakistan has not acknowledged Kashmir as a settled matter and pretty much seeks a resolution.
What solid assurance can the Pakistani state give to its people and the Kashmiris without discussing things with India and coming to an agreement?

The agreement or resolution on Kashmir is needed and Pakistan would be more than willing to even have a third party mediate the talks but it is India which does not want any mediator and declares it a bilateral matter only between India and Pakistan...
but on the other hand India also adheres to a no talk stance on Kashmir with Paksitan....
So it is a bilateral matter but India will not discuss it with Pakistan?
Who else will India talk to?

There can be many solutions and it is not necessary that India will lose much or Pakistan will lose much in a negotiation, atleast the negotiations and talks should be in place and without any strings attached.

As long as there is a regular forum (requires committment of states) for India Pakistan to come up with a resolution via step by step agreements and an assurance that this forum will not vanish come what may...we can proceed with other agreements and talk about mutual projects without much backlash from Public which (for the most part) will see the logic in such a move.
This will be a positive way to improve the relationship.

u know were the problem is,ur so caleed freedom fighters r playing blood battle not only in kashmir but all over india,and the irony is this freedom fighters r not the people of kashmir valley,they came across the border,kashmir state just do not comprise just the valley but also a lot of area with mixed population of buddhist,muslims and hindus.

clearly if their is any resentment that is among the muslim population,not among hindus and budhist,so pakistans card that kashmir is suppresed dont holds true

as far by allowing these so called freedom fighters to play from ur side is not at all going to make things any good
 
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I think india have to wait another two to three years and talk with pakistan. After two years lots of thing clear from both country.Just my two penny.
 
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YES LETS RELAX have no talks for 5 years. ON ANYTHING

Let Pakista fight their 5 year war on terror.

LET india spend billions on more weapons and increase its GDP from 1.2 trillion dollars to $2 trillion dollars.

good idea
 
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ignorence is ur problem man,because u speak just what ur ptv shows
were is protest going in ladakh were buddhist monks and thier population lives,their is no protest in jammu were the hindu population reside,ur these called protest,oh sorry frredom movement in only happening in the kashmir valley by a small group of people,and why do we surrender the entire state to please them and ur nation,but these r not the issue with us,our issue is ur home grown extremists

Dude,seen the Beijing Olympics,and the fact that Dalai Lama wants to settle it in a peaceful.And even if you include this,its still not related to the topic.

nationalist movement is going in assam,and for ur knowledge keep little updated on assam,we have broken their back with help of bangladesh

Using time as your arguments won't help,my point is that to counter Balochistan with Assam.And even though you broke their backs,they still manage to regroup and did some attacks.


and u want to show that assam issue is greater than baloch on basis on this article,read my article again my friend in which it is clearly stated as it is growing as ur biggest problem

Our biggest problem is Taliban,and having a crook President,and the people of Balochistan are with us on this.

i never said any nationalist movement is going in swat or fata,did i,but if u bring more places in india saying nationalist movement,i am going to do the same

Bring it in for what?When there is no evidence of at least insurgency going on there?Man you are ignorant
 
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A post from M J Akbar.

Talk without hope so there’s hope for civilityM J Akbar, 21 February 2010, 12:22 AM IST


Sensible nations either go to war or negotiate peace; they don’t sulk. So it is sensible for India and Pakistan to resume talks at a formal level. The tricky part is to discover what kind of talk makes sense.

War is always much easier to start than peace. You need only a trumpet to launch hostilities. Peace requires a rather more complicated orchestra; there will be discordant notes from some insistent trombone; the bass could be playing a military march; all musicians might not read from the same sheet; and there is always the likelihood of liberal violins airing strains more relevant to heaven than to realists who live on earth. If the maestro-conductor tears his hair occasionally, you can understand why.

The heavy breathing about the February 25 talks between foreign secretaries Nirupama Rao and Salman Bashir suggests that neither Indian nor Pakistani media, which sit in the front row and shape the response of the audience, have quite understood what a bilateral dialogue between hostile neighbours is all about. Each journalist is cranking up the decibel level around one question, and one question only: what will the diplomats say when they meet?

You don’t need a sting operation to find out what Ms Rao will say. Defence minister A K Antony has already informed us that infiltration has not gone down, and cordite from Pune is still in the air. She has no option except to hammer away at terrorism and the “war by other means” that Pakistan launched after its failure to seize the Kashmir valley by irregular and then regular forces in 1947-48. The strategy for subversion was initiated by the same person who planned the first war, a Colonel Akbar Khan. He adopted the rather ambitious nom de plume “Tariq”, after Tariq bin Ziad, Arab conqueror of Spain in 712. He wrote two papers after ceasefire on January 1, 1949, “What Next in Kashmir?” and “Keep the Pot Boiling in Abdullah’s Kashmir”. Prime Minister Liaquat Ali Khan sanctioned Rs 1 million to arm a “people’s militia” in Indian Kashmir. The Abdullahs have moved into their third generation, but the blood in that pot has not stopped boiling. The outcome of the dialogue on February 25 will be determined not by what Ms Rao says but by what she hears.

No prizes for guessing what her counterpart will say: precisely the same thing that his ministry has been saying for six decades: Kashmir, Kashmir, Kashmir. In the old days, they were more focused and claimed that Kashmir belonged to Pakistan. These days they are a little more circumspect in letting “Azad Kashmiris” some leeway; but they are still certain that Kashmir does not belong to India. In the time left, Salman Bashir will talk about Indus waters, but that is a comparatively minor issue since India has, in principle, accepted the responsibility of an upper riparian state to share water with territory lower down. Disputes over quantum are really small potatoes.

In the absence of real answers, the practice has been to resort to platitudes. Platitudes survive because they have latitude. The problem is that the flexibility of excuses has been fully exhausted. There is a tired ring to the deadpan explanation for terrorism: “we must address core issues”, meaning Kashmir. There will be a me-too variation this time; an injured expression and the hapless suggestion that Pakistan too is a victim of terrorism. This risible argument does not bear examination. The fact that terrorists with another cause blow up Peshawar can hardly be justification for Pakistani establishment help to those who want to blow up Srinagar, or Mumbai, or Pune. As for Kashmir, Pakistan has signed two agreements, at Tashkent in 1966 and at Shimla in 1972, endorsing the ceasefire line of January 1, 1949 as the effective border: if anything, Tashkent was more specific than Shimla. A third treaty confirming this would end the dispute, but no one has suggested that this is on the agenda.

Is there anything new to say or hear? Are we going to talk for the sake of talks? That may be better than not talking at all, but it would be useful to place a marker along the way to the conference hall. This is about civilians pretending to be civil, not about finding solutions. There is no solution apart from the status quo, and if the status quo were acceptable to Pakistan we would have had warmth and cooperation after 1972 — and, by now, dozens of authors trying to make money out of books on Pindia. Pindia, after all, has a nicer ring to it than Chindia, and it makes a more dramatic story than analysis of frosty neighbours secretly delighted that the Himalayas separate them.

Let us talk without hope so that there may be hope for civility.

...........................................................................

We think one way and Government in another way. Unfortunately we like to hate and Government likes to use this for politics.

:smitten::cheers:
 
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India open to Pakistan talks but wants 'terror' controlled

NEW DELHI: India said Friday it was open to talks with Pakistan but no meaningful progress could be made until Islamabad controls the “terror machine” operating on its soil.

Indian Prime Minister Manmohan Singh said he was a strong advocate of dialogue with Pakistan but Islamabad must not allow territory under its control “to be used for terrorism against India.”

"For any meaningful dialogue to proceed the terror machine has to be controlled by Pakistan," he told parliament.

Singh's statement came a day after Pakistan said it had put forward a road map on how to revive talks with India's political leadership and had urged New Delhi to respond to the proposal.

The prime minister did not comment on the Pakistani plan but said: “I have never believed channels of communication with Pakistan should break down... the chances of miscalculation can only increase in a situation of no contact.”

Senior officials of the two nuclear-armed South Asian rivals met in New Delhi last week for the first talks since a shaky India-Pakistan peace process was suspended following the deadly 2008 Mumbai attacks which New Delhi and Washington blamed on Pakistani militants.

The civil servants agreed to keep in contact but made no progress on core disputes leaving both sides at loggerheads on how to take the dialogue forward.

Pakistan has complained about India's “narrow focus” on terrorism and has called for a resumption of the full-blown peace talks.

Singh in the past has said peace talks can only resume if Islamabad brings the Mumbai perpetrators to justice and cracks down on militant groups operating on its soil.

Singh, responding to criticism from the opposition that India had restarted talks with Pakistan only because of US pressure, said the decision had been a “calculated one.”

"The fact is that the rest of the international community is talking to Pakistan. Not talking to them will not isolate them," Singh said.

DAWN.COM | World | India open to Pakistan talks but wants 'terror' controlled
 
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At FS talks, Pak said call in Ministers next, India said no

Barely two weeks after India and Pakistan sought to break the ice through Foreign Secretary-level talks, it now emerges that the two sides hardly made any headway in the conversation with almost no meeting ground on any of the proposals put forward by either side.

It’s learnt that Pakistan came to the table with a “roadmap” leading to the resumption of composite dialogue which entailed an invitation for External Affairs Minister S M Krishna to visit Pakistan. But India was more keen on broadening the discussions at official levels and suggested a “technical meeting” to improve cross-LoC trade as a measure to show it was not skirting the Kashmir issue.

Pakistan Foreign Secretary Salman Bashir, sources said, conveyed that the three terror dossiers could have been handed over to the Pakistan High Commissioner and that his coming here should lead to a more substantive outcome. In this context, he extended the invitation for Krishna on behalf of the Pakistan Foreign Minister to visit Islamabad and suggested that Foreign Secretaries could meet a day before to finalise the agenda.

According to the Pakistan proposal, the meeting between the Foreign Ministers would lay the ground for discussions between Prime Minister Manmohan Singh and his Pak counterpart Yousuf Raza Gilani on the margins of the SAARC meet in Bhutan late April where the resumption of the composite dialogue could be announced through a joint statement.

But India was not in favour of this approach. Foreign Secretary Nirupama Rao is said to have responded that it would be better for the FS-level dialogue to continue for the moment and, in that spirit, she was prepared to travel to Islamabad. The Pakistan side agreed reluctantly but has not yet followed it up with a formal invitation.

The Indian side had its own set of suggestions on official level talks. Besides proposing meetings on cross-LoC trade, India suggested holding a meeting between Commerce Secretaries to carry forward discussions on trade issues and a meeting of the Indo-Pak judicial committee for release of civilian prisoners and fishermen.

India also took note of a pending request from Pakistan to send a team of its Railway officials to study Indian plans for building a freight corridor and extended an invite for the same. Also, an invitation was renewed for the Pakistan Election Commissioner to visit India, a trip cancelled due to the IPL controversy.

But these proposals didn’t elicit a positive response from Pakistan which is more keen on “political-level,” meetings. In fact, sources said, Islamabad is not prepared yet to even move forward on back channel talks until a firm political direction is agreed upon.

New Delhi, on its part, feels that court proceedings against the 26/11-accused must reach some logical conclusion in the form of sentencing the guilty. Also, the Indian side is certain about the involvement of a serving Pakistani military official in the Mumbai attacks and wants that to be probed fully. “Credible” action on this front, sources said, are vital before India can proceed towards a comprehensive dialogue.

Due to such basic differences, gaps are widening with issues like Pakistan’s domestic problem of river-water sharing being spun as an Indo-Pak problem. At the forefront of this, are groups like the banned Jamaat-ud-Dawa which is only deepening suspicion in New Delhi over Islamabad’s larger intention.
 
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question to all this rubbish drama what we call talks btw India and Pakistan has it ever ever produced any results ! ??
 
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