fatman17
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...and therefore it is our duty to change the mindsets of the ones who dont want peace!
India, Pakistan locked in their animosities
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...and therefore it is our duty to change the mindsets of the ones who dont want peace!
when and where. even in Bolywood you guys insulted our artists by harnessing them and stopping them from performing, I thought Bolywood will be a place od moderates, what moderates are you talking about.
Let mention few other things here.
When Prisoner are exchanged we hand over your prisoner health and happy with lots of Garland to send them off.But when we recieve our prisoners many time they have bee psychologically tortured and were totaly psychologically screwed up, it is not once. but many a time.
WE in Pakistan only hear you guys at the time of an attack even though investigation has not been completed yet you always blame Pakistan. what moderates you are you talking about. Not once I heave heard from these so called moderates.
In the case pf attacks on your parliament.
In the case of killings of all males Sikhs in a village in Kashmir during the visit of president Clinton.
The attacks on samjhota train and than raping of a 70 years old lady in Kashmir. what a shame.
I have more, but let us see what you have to say for these few facts.
Let mention few other things here.
When Prisoner are exchanged we hand over your prisoner health and happy with lots of Garland to send them off.But when we recieve our prisoners many time they have bee psychologically tortured and were totaly psychologically screwed up, it is not once. but many a time.
WE in Pakistan only hear you guys at the time of an attack even though investigation has not been completed yet you always blame Pakistan. what moderates you are you talking about. Not once I heave heard from these so called moderates.
In the case pf attacks on your parliament.
In the case of killings of all males Sikhs in a village in Kashmir during the visit of president Clinton.
The attacks on samjhota train and than raping of a 70 years old lady in Kashmir. what a shame.
I have more, but let us see what you have to say for these few facts.
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paritosh
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dude...the answer to all of that is very simple...just as the saying goes...that "you have to be a racist to see a racist"..
you need to be a moderate to see a moderate...
pakistani artisits have always been welcomed not just by bollywood but by us common folk as well...Nusrat Fateh Ali Khan composed the 'vande matram' song with ar rahmnan....adnan sami...so many artists from pakistan call india their second home...leaders from pakistan are frequently called to hold seminars here...however...when something as heart-crushing as the mumbai attacks or the attack on the parliament happens...it becomes difficult to separate fierce reflex emotions from rational...
i call myself a moderate...i have always stood for india-pak peace....but when i saw the attcks happening and heard about the no. of dead...my own impulse was to curse pakistan...irrational as it may be....
as you know that sense takes time to set back in...after a shock...
so we'l have to wait for things to cool down.
and what do you mean by harnessing your artists?
they get paid and appreciated...
and as far as the prisoner exchange is concerned...you surely dont give them garlands each day they rot in your prisons now do you?
so the 'send-off' is merely a gesture...nothing more...and the complaints of mental torture are made on both sides..
the accusations have a 70% knee-jerk nature...and 30% historical nature...as i've explained.
all male sikhs killed!?!...show me the link dude..!
nobody kills sikhs in India!....not since 1984...
they are a very wealthy and influential lot and a respected one too...
nobody achieves anything by killig sikhs in kashmir...i read that it was done to exterminate and scare them by the 'holy-warriors' of kashmir...backed by some country we-dont-talk-of....like the classic case of the kashmiri pandits..
and why do you include sikhs in this??what has it gotta do with pakistan..or any indian group for that matter?
dude...in india you'd find a lot of puroits(nobody add colonel!)....just as we would have a zaid hamidi or whateva his name is in pakistan...or a betulah massud in pakistan...the way i see it....all this education that my country and my parents have imparted me should not go to waste in following the footsteps of the men mentioned...there is a longer route that would lead to mutual understanding...war and the yearning for destruction(cursing...violence..etc etc) are the simplest of all human responses....we can only destroy each other once.
however...if we remove our egos and all the hatred that has seeped in...we truly are brothers in arms....born from the same struggle....bred in the same struggle...
i am a moderate trying to kill my ego...for the greater good.
Paritish so don't know about killing of male Sikhs during the visit of Bill Clinton, see that is the thing I wrote about Indians when it come to truth they will ask million questions so that the matter id confused and is abandoned, DUDE i am telling you it happened. And i am not making it up. Here is the link DUDE.
Killing of Sikhs clouds Clinton visit to India
Kashmir slaughter eclipses US attempts to raise objections to nuclear proliferation
The India-Pakistan conflict: special report
* Luke Harding in New Delhi
* guardian.co.uk, Wednesday 22 March 2000 02.21 GMT
* Article history
The first visit by a United States president to India in 22 years began in a mood of horror and fury yesterday, with India and Pakistan accusing each other of masterminding a massacre of 40 unarmed Sikhs in a village in Kashmir.
Whoever carried out the attack, its timing on the eve of Bill Clinton's five-day tour of India - with all the western media coverage such a visit generates - is unlikely to have been coincidental. President Clinton described the attack as a "horrible development".
The unidentified gunmen, who descended on the village of Chati Singhpura Mattan, 40 miles south of Kashmir's summer capital, Srinagar, ordered the men out of their houses before shooting them at point-blank range. The attack on Monday night was the first on Kashmir's Sikh minority since violence broke out in the state 10 years ago.
India yesterday accused two militant Islamic groups based in Pakistan, the Lashkar-e-Toiba and Hizbul Mojahedin, of carrying out the killings.
Pakistan rejected the claim and said India was exploiting the tragedy for political purposes. "We condemn the killing," said Pakistan's foreign minister, Abdul Sattar.
After talks with Mr Clinton, the Indian prime minister, Atal Bihari Vajpayee, emerged to condemn the attack as a "primitive act of barbarism". It was part of a pattern of "ethnic cleansing" that had "been under way for a decade", aimed at driving non-Muslims out of Kashmir, he said.
"We and the international community reject the notion that jihad [holy war] can be a part of any civilised country's foreign policy. We have the means and will to eliminate this menace," he added.
The massacre eclipsed, at least initially, attempts by the US to raise its concerns with India about nuclear proliferation in the region. These are likely to dominate Mr Clinton's meeting in Islamabad on Sat urday with General Pervez Musharraf, Pakistan's military ruler. Mr Clinton sounded his most understanding note yet towards New Delhi's develpping nuclear capabilities, but he refused to lift US sanctions imposed after the country's 1998 nuclear test.
Mr Vajpayee promised that India would not conduct further nuclear tests or "engage in a nuclear arms race". But he defended India's right to maintain "a mininum nuclear deterrent". New Delhi has so far refused to sign the comprehensive test ban treaty on nuclear weapons, despite pressure from Washington.
In a significant tilt away from Pakistan, a US ally in the cold-war era, Mr Clinton said that talks between India and Pakistan could begin only when violence ended. There must be respect for the line of control, the unmarked mountain border between the Indian and Pakistani-controlled parts of Kashmir. And "some way must be found to renew the dialogue", he said.
India accuses Pakistan of sending armed militants across the line of control into Kashmir. Islamabad denies thisbut admits to offering the "freedom fighters" moral support.
Officials said yesterday that between 10 and 12 uniformed men arrived in Chati Singhpura Mattan after dark, announced that they were conducting a "crackdown" and separated the men from the women. The Sikh men were then sprayed with bullets in two areas, 200 yards apart.
"They shot them dead, point blank," said the director general of police, F A K Bhan. Soldiers yesterday searched the hills and forest near by while in Jammu - the state's winter capital - a curfew was imposed as some 15,000 furious Sikhs blocked roads.
In the past, the militants have carried out random killings of Hindus, but the Sikhs - many of whom run trucking companies in the valley - had been considered neutral in the campaign to divorce Kashmir from India. Hindu villages are guarded by security patrols, but not the Sikh villages, which until now seemed to need no protection.
Yesterday a senior Indian official, Brajesh Mishra, said that New Delhi had evidence that militants linked to Pakistan were responsible, though he refused to identify his sources.
He named Lashkar-e-Toiba, led by Abu Mahaz, as the perpetrator, in a combined operation with Hizbul Mojahedin. But militant leaders in Pakistan rejected the charge.
"The brutal mass murder" on the eve of the Clinton visit was a "pre-planned act of Indian intelligence to defame the Kashmiri freedom struggle", said Syed Salahuddin, head of Hizbul Mojahedin. "The mojahedin have nothing against the Sikh community, which sympathises with our struggle. We assure them that there never was and there will never be any danger to Sikhs from Kashmiri freedom fighters."
President Clinton, who admitted that the US had "neglected" its relationship with India during the last two decades, laid a wreath yesterday with his daughter Chelsea at a memorial to Mahatma Gandhi, before official talks and a state banquet last night. He moves on to visit the Taj Mahal today, and a tiger reserve in Rajasthan tomorrow.
Killing of Sikhs clouds Clinton visit to India
Kashmir slaughter eclipses US attempts to raise objections to nuclear proliferation
The India-Pakistan conflict: special report
* Luke Harding in New Delhi
* guardian.co.uk, Wednesday 22 March 2000 02.21 GMT
* Article history
The first visit by a United States president to India in 22 years began in a mood of horror and fury yesterday, with India and Pakistan accusing each other of masterminding a massacre of 40 unarmed Sikhs in a village in Kashmir.
Whoever carried out the attack, its timing on the eve of Bill Clinton's five-day tour of India - with all the western media coverage such a visit generates - is unlikely to have been coincidental. President Clinton described the attack as a "horrible development".
The unidentified gunmen, who descended on the village of Chati Singhpura Mattan, 40 miles south of Kashmir's summer capital, Srinagar, ordered the men out of their houses before shooting them at point-blank range. The attack on Monday night was the first on Kashmir's Sikh minority since violence broke out in the state 10 years ago.
India yesterday accused two militant Islamic groups based in Pakistan, the Lashkar-e-Toiba and Hizbul Mojahedin, of carrying out the killings.
Pakistan rejected the claim and said India was exploiting the tragedy for political purposes. "We condemn the killing," said Pakistan's foreign minister, Abdul Sattar.
After talks with Mr Clinton, the Indian prime minister, Atal Bihari Vajpayee, emerged to condemn the attack as a "primitive act of barbarism". It was part of a pattern of "ethnic cleansing" that had "been under way for a decade", aimed at driving non-Muslims out of Kashmir, he said.
"We and the international community reject the notion that jihad [holy war] can be a part of any civilised country's foreign policy. We have the means and will to eliminate this menace," he added.
The massacre eclipsed, at least initially, attempts by the US to raise its concerns with India about nuclear proliferation in the region. These are likely to dominate Mr Clinton's meeting in Islamabad on Sat urday with General Pervez Musharraf, Pakistan's military ruler. Mr Clinton sounded his most understanding note yet towards New Delhi's develpping nuclear capabilities, but he refused to lift US sanctions imposed after the country's 1998 nuclear test.
Mr Vajpayee promised that India would not conduct further nuclear tests or "engage in a nuclear arms race". But he defended India's right to maintain "a mininum nuclear deterrent". New Delhi has so far refused to sign the comprehensive test ban treaty on nuclear weapons, despite pressure from Washington.
In a significant tilt away from Pakistan, a US ally in the cold-war era, Mr Clinton said that talks between India and Pakistan could begin only when violence ended. There must be respect for the line of control, the unmarked mountain border between the Indian and Pakistani-controlled parts of Kashmir. And "some way must be found to renew the dialogue", he said.
India accuses Pakistan of sending armed militants across the line of control into Kashmir. Islamabad denies thisbut admits to offering the "freedom fighters" moral support.
Officials said yesterday that between 10 and 12 uniformed men arrived in Chati Singhpura Mattan after dark, announced that they were conducting a "crackdown" and separated the men from the women. The Sikh men were then sprayed with bullets in two areas, 200 yards apart.
"They shot them dead, point blank," said the director general of police, F A K Bhan. Soldiers yesterday searched the hills and forest near by while in Jammu - the state's winter capital - a curfew was imposed as some 15,000 furious Sikhs blocked roads.
In the past, the militants have carried out random killings of Hindus, but the Sikhs - many of whom run trucking companies in the valley - had been considered neutral in the campaign to divorce Kashmir from India. Hindu villages are guarded by security patrols, but not the Sikh villages, which until now seemed to need no protection.
Yesterday a senior Indian official, Brajesh Mishra, said that New Delhi had evidence that militants linked to Pakistan were responsible, though he refused to identify his sources.
He named Lashkar-e-Toiba, led by Abu Mahaz, as the perpetrator, in a combined operation with Hizbul Mojahedin. But militant leaders in Pakistan rejected the charge.
"The brutal mass murder" on the eve of the Clinton visit was a "pre-planned act of Indian intelligence to defame the Kashmiri freedom struggle", said Syed Salahuddin, head of Hizbul Mojahedin. "The mojahedin have nothing against the Sikh community, which sympathises with our struggle. We assure them that there never was and there will never be any danger to Sikhs from Kashmiri freedom fighters."
President Clinton, who admitted that the US had "neglected" its relationship with India during the last two decades, laid a wreath yesterday with his daughter Chelsea at a memorial to Mahatma Gandhi, before official talks and a state banquet last night. He moves on to visit the Taj Mahal today, and a tiger reserve in Rajasthan tomorrow.
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paritosh
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what you posted had not even a single line that had anything to do with 'india' killing those sikhs..they were working for indian companies...use some logic!
i was confused between replying to what you posted and not...i know you will post something as meaningless to this again...
i was confused between replying to what you posted and not...i know you will post something as meaningless to this again...
aaaannd there goes another thread - down the drain and derailed.
What you can see, even on this forum, is a complete lack of trust between Indians and Pakistanis. Both our govts have done a stupendously good job of convincing us that the other is Satan incarnate. So what you have is people expressing goodwill but still keeping lingering hate and mistrust in their minds.
What you can see, even on this forum, is a complete lack of trust between Indians and Pakistanis. Both our govts have done a stupendously good job of convincing us that the other is Satan incarnate. So what you have is people expressing goodwill but still keeping lingering hate and mistrust in their minds.
haviZsultan
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Its more than that. Some of us have a background from there and the massacres are fresh in our minds and many of us lost people in India. This as late as 2007 so frankly bias still exists and many Pakistanis have families on both sides so the issues of the guys in India worry us profoundly. Frankly the most major issue is we dont like the double standards and differential treatment. On u guys go about terror in Pakistan and from there but on the other hand terrorist organizations whose members are known to attack minorities are left alone. It makes our position much more difficult. For example its very hard for us to understand why is bal thakerey and modi still out of jail when it is proven they played role in major massacres and why are we taking action against Jamaat Ud Dawa over which 80000 people are dependent. I ask you what kind of islamic terrorist organization will it be where hindus and christians will rise in flame to support it?
I made this pretty emotional video about JUD and its activities. Check it out:
Also check the interview i had with Flora on wordpress. It discusses the issue. All of us social workers know they had nothing to do with terror. We are taking action against them while on your side shiv sena RSS and other gangs of thugs are left alone. It puts us in a difficult position and makes it seem more we are selling our country. I feel thats what our politicians are doing.
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Hay paritosh this was when the killing took place and blame game started by India to undermine Pakistan in the eyes of visiting President bill Clinton, and it worked Bill with out knowing the truth acted very irrational and did not want to come to Pakistan and after many requests by than Pakistan leader Nawaz Sharif, landed and shook hand with Nwaz and left, What dirty trick played by India
Now enough of your questions and about time you guys come clean and speak from heart and not from both ends of your mouth.
Stop the charade and talk some fair and honest talk. The history of Pakistan is so full of Hindu aggressions that even secular Leaders like Jinnah became very Angry and left congress and joined Muslim League.
There are so many unfair acts by Hindus that i can write a book on it, but let us not dwell on those, and let us see if you guys want to be reasonable, tell the truth and wana be equal partner and not a bully.
AND STOP INSULTING ME WHEN U SAY WHAT I WRITE IS MEANINGLESS. SHAME ON YOU.
Now enough of your questions and about time you guys come clean and speak from heart and not from both ends of your mouth.
Stop the charade and talk some fair and honest talk. The history of Pakistan is so full of Hindu aggressions that even secular Leaders like Jinnah became very Angry and left congress and joined Muslim League.
There are so many unfair acts by Hindus that i can write a book on it, but let us not dwell on those, and let us see if you guys want to be reasonable, tell the truth and wana be equal partner and not a bully.
AND STOP INSULTING ME WHEN U SAY WHAT I WRITE IS MEANINGLESS. SHAME ON YOU.
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Pk_Thunder
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Govt takes over main center of Jamaat-ud-Dawa
Sunday, 25 Jan, 2009 | 04:34 PM PST |
LAHORE: Pakistan on Sunday formally took control of the main operational facility of a charity allegedly linked to the Mumbai attacks, underscoring its ongoing effort to ease international pressure over militancy on its soil, according to AP.
Pakistan had already closed or taken over several offices, schools and other properties of the Jamaat-ud-Dawa charity and detained much of its central leadership.
On Sunday, a newly appointed government administrator took over the 75-acre compound in the eastern city of Muridke in Punjab province, where the group has conducted and coordinated much of its business.
Salman Ejaz, a senior official in Punjab province, said all assets and properties of the charity in the province were now under the regional government's control. Most of the assets, offices and operations of the group are in Punjab, Pakistan's most populous province.
'The government has appointed an officer as administrator for all the assets,' Ejaz said. 'The schools and the hospitals will keep on working as they are.'
Ejaz said the administrator and other officials would try to gauge and map out the extent of the charity's operations _ especially its bank accounts, which Pakistan has ordered frozen.
Asked why it took so long for the government to take over the Muridke site, officials said it was a complicated task.
After the initial crackdown and assessment of the group's operations, 'we are going for total regulation under government control,' Punjab Home Secretary Nadeem Hasan said. 'All things cannot happen in one go.'
A spokesman for the charity could not immediately be reached for comment.
Initially, there were several relatively small protests over the government's moves against the charity, but that fervor appears to have died down in recent days.
Indian officials also could not immediately be reached for comment on Sunday, but the South Asian giant has repeatedly demanded Pakistan go after militant groups, with US officials adding to the pressure.
paritosh
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i apologize.i'll talk from the heart...i respect Jinnah...but the animosity has twisted our mindsets brother!for a lot of muslims...i am impure because i am a hindu...the reverse is also true for some hindus.a lot of things we believe have no actual weight behind them....they are just propaganda.i can write a similar book...but do you think you and i are capable of judging the community and the faith of billions?
so dont call hindus bad...refer to me as an indian and not a hindu.my religion has got nothing to do with me being on this forum.
do you actually have a problem with the general indian population?if you and i would have met in neutral coutry would you have simply hated me for being a hindu/indian?
you told me to write for the heart...i want you to open your heart and remove the bias that you have for us.
Now paritosh you are assuming things about me as that i hate Hindu,one of my best friend in Canada is a Hindu, as he very straight forward person and is truthful.
I have yet to see Indian to accept the truth and say it that it was wrong to take Hyderabad or other states and that Pakistan was carved by Muslims of India to live as Muslims in Pakistan as Hindu leaders would go back on all their promises during pre-partition and that made Qaid-E-Azam switch to Muslim league.
If any Indian would say with courage that let us do the right thing and apply U.N. resolution passed for Kashmir and let us live in Peace.
But any India that I have had a chance to talk to , is adamant that Kashmir is not negotiable, It confirms my belief that Indian are selfish, uncaring and have no regard for U.N. and international law and for for honest dealings.
I always see their agenda when I read a post by an Indian, they also talk like overconfident bullies who only know how to put their agenda across.
The most irritating thing I have read again by an Indian is that they are going to amalgamate Muslims into Indian society, Your thinking like that which to me is the most discriminatory and most insulting to Indian Muslims has really boggled my mind.
Muslims been living in India for centuries and you want to amalgamate them, what a rude, insulting and horrible thing to say about Muslims in India.
Till attitude changes and a fair and reasonable situation is created by those who talk a lot only to confuse, use lot of one sided talk, there will be no understanding. Arguments back and forth.
Talk with heart as I said can be recognized from far, so let us see if u can do it and than we will move ahead form there. I hope it happens since now that we have w.m.d no one will win, only peace based on honesty, truthfulness and fair play will win.
I have yet to see Indian to accept the truth and say it that it was wrong to take Hyderabad or other states and that Pakistan was carved by Muslims of India to live as Muslims in Pakistan as Hindu leaders would go back on all their promises during pre-partition and that made Qaid-E-Azam switch to Muslim league.
If any Indian would say with courage that let us do the right thing and apply U.N. resolution passed for Kashmir and let us live in Peace.
But any India that I have had a chance to talk to , is adamant that Kashmir is not negotiable, It confirms my belief that Indian are selfish, uncaring and have no regard for U.N. and international law and for for honest dealings.
I always see their agenda when I read a post by an Indian, they also talk like overconfident bullies who only know how to put their agenda across.
The most irritating thing I have read again by an Indian is that they are going to amalgamate Muslims into Indian society, Your thinking like that which to me is the most discriminatory and most insulting to Indian Muslims has really boggled my mind.
Muslims been living in India for centuries and you want to amalgamate them, what a rude, insulting and horrible thing to say about Muslims in India.
Till attitude changes and a fair and reasonable situation is created by those who talk a lot only to confuse, use lot of one sided talk, there will be no understanding. Arguments back and forth.
Talk with heart as I said can be recognized from far, so let us see if u can do it and than we will move ahead form there. I hope it happens since now that we have w.m.d no one will win, only peace based on honesty, truthfulness and fair play will win.
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dbc
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Hello All 
I am from the United States, I stumbled upon this forum while I was trying to read up on the attacks in Mumbai. (my father works in Mumbai). I hope to learn more about the people of Pakistan and India and hopefully visit these countries one day.
I am from the United States, I stumbled upon this forum while I was trying to read up on the attacks in Mumbai. (my father works in Mumbai). I hope to learn more about the people of Pakistan and India and hopefully visit these countries one day.Hay friend "I come in peace". what would to like to know. We will be honest, truthful and fair in conversations, Ask any question and we will try to answer the question by the aforementioned traits.
I hope that you are not part of the establishment, & I hope u are here for the benefits of the world peace and for the search of truth.
I hope that you are not part of the establishment, & I hope u are here for the benefits of the world peace and for the search of truth.
dbc
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"Part of the establishment?" I'm not sure I understand? I am worried about outbreak of war between Pakistan and India since my father is based in Mumbai. I started reading posts by both Pakistani's and Indian's in this forum and I was intrigued by the complex relations between these two nations, almost reminds me of two bickering brothers (no offence)
I was going to spend Christmas with my father in Mumbai but he told me to cancel my trip
Ruby u tell me that no one listen to them, but I see a different picture, in my scenery India acts exactly what these extremists say, as depicted by its behaviour, say in Gujrat, in Kashmir etc,
And than Indian has yet to declare them terrorist groups, what India is waiting for.
And for my friend who comes in Peace, U.R.welcome, let us talk like good friends and be honest and be considerate as good neighbor should.
The way I feel when I said establishment that some Indian on this forum talk sounds like RAW agents. Not straight talker, but twisted, often bad manners and not truthful.
I have had a chance to talk many Idnain Muslims in Canada and they tell me that during Gujarat riots, police stood by and did not help save Muslims life's, instead help these terrorist to kill.
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