Zapper
SENIOR MEMBER
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- May 9, 2019
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Y'all can keep AJK and GB will go to IndiaIndia can keep the blue part
Green and orange / yellow goes to Pakistan
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Y'all can keep AJK and GB will go to IndiaIndia can keep the blue part
Green and orange / yellow goes to Pakistan
Oh! our economy is getting better as are our reserves and India plays no part in it. In fact we dont even have to deal with you lot. The amount of trade that was happening between India and Pakistan was actually favoring India. So thanks but no thanks.get its economy in shape rather
Grandeur delusion had you shattered that day. I'm surprised some of you lot even have the nerve to talk the way you do after what happened.
The bottom line is that Pakistan did escalate quickly and you sat back not wanting it. Pakistan's military is also modernising at a quick pace.
There is no delusion here. Retaliation by Pakistan was expected. Yes, shooting down of Abhinandan may have helped in de-escalation. Next time it could be a completely different story. It could go both ways.Grandeur delusion had you shattered that day. I'm surprised some of you lot even have the nerve to talk the way you do after what happened.
Pakistan's military is also modernising at a quick pace.
Oh! our economy is getting better as are our reserves and India plays no part in it. In fact we dont even have to deal with you lot. The amount of trade that was happening between India and Pakistan was actually favoring India. So thanks but no thanks.
India, Pakistan held secret talks to try to break Kashmir impasse
By Sanjeev Miglani, Asif Shahzad
5 Min Read
NEW DELHI (Reuters) -Top intelligence officers from India and Pakistan held secret talks in Dubai in January in a new effort to calm military tension over the disputed Himalayan region of Kashmir, people with close knowledge of the matter told Reuters in Delhi.
FILE PHOTO: Pakistani Rangers (wearing black uniforms) and Indian Border Security Force (BSF) officers lower their national flags during parade on the Pakistan's 72nd Independence Day, at the Pakistan-India joint check-post at Wagah border, near Lahore, Pakistan August 14, 2019. REUTERS/Mohsin Raza
Ties between the nuclear-armed rivals have been on ice since a suicide bombing of an Indian military convoy in Kashmir in 2019 traced to Pakistan-based militants that led to India sending warplanes to Pakistan.
Later that year, Indian Prime Minister Narendra Modi withdrew Indian-ruled Kashmir’s autonomy in order to tighten his grip over the territory, provoking outrage in Pakistan and the downgrading of diplomatic ties and suspension of bilateral trade.
But the two governments have re-opened a back channel of diplomacy aimed at a modest roadmap to normalising ties over the next several months, the people said.
Kashmir has long been a flashpoint between India and Pakistan, both of which claim all of the region but rule only in part.
Officials from India’s Research and Analysis Wing, the external spy agency, and Pakistan’s Inter-Services Intelligence travelled to Dubai for a meeting facilitated by the United Arab Emirates government, two people said.
The Indian foreign ministry did not respond to a request for comment. Pakistan’s military, which controls the ISI, also did not respond.
But Ayesha Siddiqa, a top Pakistani defence analyst, said she believed Indian and Pakistan intelligence officials had been meeting for several months in third countries.
“I think there have been meetings in Thailand, in Dubai, in London between the highest level people,” she said.
‘IT IS FRAUGHT’
Such meetings have taken place in the past too, especially during times of crises but never been publicly acknowledged.
“There is a lot that can still go wrong, it is fraught,” said one of the people in Delhi. “That is why nobody is talking it up in public, we don’t even have a name for this, it’s not a peace process. You can call it a re-engagement,” one of them said.
Both countries have reasons to seek a rapprochement. India has been locked in a border stand-off with China since last year and does not want the military stretched on the Pakistan front.
China-ally Pakistan, mired in economic difficulties and on an IMF bailout programme, can ill-afford heightened tensions on the Kashmir border for a prolonged period, experts say. It also has to stabilise the Afghan border on its west as the United States withdraws.
“It’s better for India and Pakistan to talk than not talk, and even better that it should be done quietly than in a glare of publicity,” said Myra MacDonald, a former Reuters journalist who has just published a book on India, Pakistan and war on the frontiers of Kashmir.
“...But I don’t see it going very far beyond a basic management of tensions, possibly to tide both countries over a difficult period - Pakistan needs to address the fall-out of the U.S. withdrawal from Afghanistan, while India has to confront a far more volatile situation on its disputed frontier with China.”
DIALLING DOWN THE RHETORIC
Following the January meeting, India and Pakistan announced they would stop cross-border shooting along the Line of Control (LoC) dividing Kashmir which has left dozens of civilians dead and many others maimed. That ceasefire is holding, military officials in both countries said.
Both sides have also signalled plans to hold elections on their sides of Kashmir this year as part of efforts to bring normalcy to a region riven by decades of bloodshed.
The two have also agreed to dial down their rhetoric, the people Reuters spoke to said.
This would include Pakistan dropping its loud objections to Modi abrogating Kashmir’s autonomy in August 2019, while Delhi in turn would refrain from blaming Pakistan for all violence on its side of the Line of Control.
These details have not been previously reported. India has long blamed Pakistan for the revolt in Kashmir, an allegation denied by Pakistan.
“There is a recognition there will be attacks inside Kashmir, there has been discussions as to how to deal with it and not let this effort derailed by the next attack,” one of the people said.
There is as yet, however, no grand plan to resolve the 74-year-old Kashmir dispute. Rather both sides are trying to reduce tensions to pave the way for a broad engagement, all the people Reuters spoke to said.
“Pakistan is transiting from a geo-strategic domain to a geo-economic domain,” Raoof Hasan, special assistant to Pakistani Prime Minister Imran Khan, told Reuters.
“Peace, both within and around with its neighbours, is a key constituent to facilitate that.”
if we come in force, you will lose. You mean nothing to us.
There is no delusion here. Retaliation by Pakistan was expected. Yes, shooting down of Abhinandan may have helped in de-escalation. Next time it could be a completely different story. It could go both ways.
Bottom line remains that India wouldn’t hesitate to strike again if an act of transgression is repeated. Pakistan has to decide if it is ready to take on that risk and the cost involved.
Do you see the shift in Indian approach?
Even during Kargil when Pakistan had clearly done an act of blatant intrusion, Indian Air Force was asked not to cross the LOC. And now India is ready to strike deep inside Pakistan.
And once again, there is no delusion here about the escalation. If escalation is what it takes to teach Pakistan a lesson then escalation it would be.
Modernisation of Pakistan’s military is no where close to what India has undertaken.
You did and then lost. Your ever so tough words won’t change that, nor do they scare us.
if we come in force, you will lose. And all wings of PA are scared of us. Even now we have won. We have removed the Kashmir issue from the table as punishment to Imran Khan and the PAF.
Drastic surge in religious, regional and even caste communalism in Modi's India will ultimately help us achieve our desired outcome, in Kashmir and elsewhere. No need for negotiations at this point in time. J&K hasn't become India in 7 decades, it won't in another few
It has come down to your opinion vs my opinion.Nope it wasn't expected. The Indian military and leadership banked on the idea that it could scare Pakistan with a strike into the nation.
The next time IF you decide to move you will be met with a response far greater than you would have factored in, and it will be escalated again, escalation which you are clearly not prepared to take up.
Hence your stood down even after your pilot had been taken captive
I am sure Pakistan is doing it. One big factor here is the means available in terms of money and other resources. India is far ahead in this regard. Previous governments sat idle as the Defence Forces kept requesting to induct new equipment.You need to see the development pages for each branch of the military.
It has come down to your opinion vs my opinion.
Why would Indian Military Leadership not expect a retaliation from a security state like Pakistan. I have quoted Kargil case in my previous post. Why were Indian forces asked not to cross the LOC then? Because it expected a response that could escalate the situation? What has changed since then? Infact PAF has acquired BVRs since then and has gained an edge in first shooter advantage.
It is just a presumption on Pakistani side to feel happy about the retaliatory strike.
Next time IF Pakistan does a transgression it would be treated exactly like the previous one. As I said earlier India has decided that if escalation is what Pakistan wants then it would be given one.
After the pilot was shot down he was returned in a tearing hurry by Pakistan. What prompted that hurry has many versions and stories which I wouldn’t like to touch upon here.
I am sure Pakistan is doing it. One big factor here is the means available in terms of money and other resources. India is far ahead in this regard. Previous governments sat idle as the Defence Forces kept requesting to induct new equipment.
Not the case anymore. Look at big ticket inductions in terms of aircraft, AD systems and force multipliers being inducted in good numbers. Some deficiencies in BVRs, SDRs and similar aspects have been already addressed.
Any interference by pushing men and material to cross from a Pakistan to India would be met with a similar or a bigger response from India.
Yes. Peace has a good chance here only and ONLY if Pakistan wants to give it a chance.
I elaborated on certain aspects that you disagreed with.You literally just repeated yourself again.
The new part about how “quickly” your pilot was returned being indicative about how Pakistan was scared about an Indian response, is just you guys trying to see a silver lining in the conventional defeat you suffered.
Regarding peace it was India who struck first, Pakistan just finished it.
I haven’t got time to list all Pakistan’s modernisation, as I stated before you can follow the threads.
Let’s see what happens now with these new talks.