India & Pakistan Ceasefire Violations

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

Oh stop pretending. You know it, we know it. The Pak army is violating the ceasefire.

We do not know it - and as I pointed out earlier, the IA was caught lying through the contradictory statements it issued during the one incident when both sides accused the other of trying to set up a check post in each others territory.

So why should IA statements be believed now, especially as I pointed out, this comes on the heels of the 'displeasure' at Pakistan raising Kashmir internationally again - we can see the links.

As for the theories why, there are several, inlucuding:

1. Show of support for kashmiri separatists

Pakistan did that through diplomatic channels, and that carried far more weight given the shrikes of indignation from the Indian side.

2. Lack of control of civilian govt. over the PA.

etc.

Absolutely false, given that Kiyani has made it clear the Army is not getting into politics and has focused on improving the operations side of the Army. Gen. Kiyani's professionalism is recognized by most Western defense professionals.

 

[Flintlock]

Pakistan did that through diplomatic channels, and that carried far more weight given the shrikes of indignation from the Indian side.

These firings are also a signal to the separatists.

Shreiks...yeah rite...Pakistani parilament shreiks in indignation every time the prophet is "insulted". India simply tells them to mind their own business.....which they should.

 

[Flintlock]

Absolutely false, given that Kiyani has made it clear the Army is not getting into politics and has focused on improving the operations side of the Army. Gen. Kiyani's professionalism is recognized by most Western defense professionals.

That has nothing to do with cross-border firing.

Kiyani may not want to interfere in politics...which translates as no coup.

However, he has enough freedom to continue to keep the LOC on the boil so that the role of Pakistan in the conflict doesn't fade out of the picture.

 

[Flintlock]

We do not know it - and as I pointed out earlier, the IA was caught lying through the contradictory statements it issued during the one incident when both sides accused the other of trying to set up a check post in each others territory.

When was IA caught lying? Its Pakistan Army which has a track record of outright lies and deception.

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

Threads merged since they are both about alleged ceasefire violations.

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

That has nothing to do with cross-border firing.

Kiyani may not want to interfere in politics...which translates as no coup.

However, he has enough freedom to continue to keep the LOC on the boil so that the role of Pakistan in the conflict doesn't fade out of the picture.

I disagree - the GoP has stated that its foreign policy shall remain the same as that under Musharraf, and for Gen. Kiyani to unilaterally decide that he wants to occasionally have the Army lob a couple of shells or fire a few rounds at Indian positions(for god knows what ridiculous reason you can concoct) would in fact be interference in the GoP's foreign policy, and interference in a very important component of the GoP's foreign policy.

Add in the fact that Pakistan's military is occupied in three different theaters - Swat, FATA and Baluchistan, and it makes absolutely no sense for a professional like Gen. Kiyani to open another front against India - especially when many analysts have argued that within military circles there is a recognition that internal terrorism is a larger threat than India currently.

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

When was IA caught lying? Its Pakistan Army which has a track record of outright lies and deception.

Off the top of my head;

1. Lies in 1971 justifying intervention in East Pakistan, and around its support for violent groups.

2. Lies about Pakistan torturing Kargil POW's (some in the Indian media exposed this).

3. Lies about one of the alleged ceasefire incidents recently that is discussed in the first few pages of this thread - contradictory statements, or supposed details of the incidents that make no sense.

Has Pakistan fudged some of its own accounts?

Certainly, but I am merely pointing out that the Indians are no angels either, and therefore there is no reason to merely accept what the IA states, especially when there remains little reason for Pakistan to increase tension along the LoC.

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

In this latest border incident India claims one of its posts, 80 miles northwest of Jammu, was hit by mortar shells over a 45-minute period. The Indians say they are unsure if the firing was conducted by Pakistani soldiers or insurgents.

A Pakistani military official says there has been no report received of any incident along the line of control on Thursday.

Pakistan denies aiding the infiltrators into India, but considers them freedom fighters.

Colonel Satinder Saini, at India's Institute of Defense Studies and Analysis, says while Indian soldiers were restrained during the latest barrage, they could be provoked to return fire.

"In case the fire is effective or the security of a defended locality is threatened you may find that even Indian troops may retaliate, but nothing of any serious nature. It'll be kind of a controlled retaliation in response to any action by them but nothing beyond that," said Saini.

Colonel Saini, who previously commanded a battalion on the Line of Control, says he does not believe Pakistan's military is eager to increase tensions because of the domestic security challenges the Pakistanis are facing.

"The [Pakistani] army would not like to escalate the situation because all their reserves are committed at the moment in fighting violence and terrorism within Pakistan and on the western borders," he added.

VOA News - India Again Claims Border Cease-Fire Violation by Pakistan

So lets get off this nonsensical propaganda dead horse you are so intent on beating.

The IA itself is not sure who is firing, and Indian analysts themselves admit that there is no incentive for Pakistan to 'escalate the situation' because resources are committed elsewhere.

 

[Flintlock]

'Unprovoked' firing by Pakistan on Indian troops: Army

There has been "unprovoked" firing by Pakistani troops at Indian positions in Jammu and Kashmir's mountainous Poonch district, army officials said on Friday.

There was firing at the Kath Panjal post, about 250 km from Jammu, on Thursday evening. "It was unprovoked firing of small and medium arms for over two hours. Indian troops did not retaliate," an army official here said.

No loss of life was reported.

While stating that there had been unprovoked firing at temporary anti-infiltration posts in Poonch, army officials in New Delhi said the incident had not been registered as a ceasefire violation.

In Jammu, officials said on the condition of anonymity that ceasefire violation were now frequent across the Line of Control (LoC) that divides Jammu and Kashmir between India and Pakistan.

In July, India lodged a strong protest against unprovoked firing by Pakistani troops along the LoC. Defence Minister A.K. Antony urged Islamabad to respect the ceasefire that has been in place since 2003.

In a statement issued in New Delhi, Antony said: "Pakistan must fully respect the ceasefire agreed to between the two sides and adhere to the already existing mechanism to deal with border violations."

An Indian soldier, identified as Sepoy Mahesh Kumar of the 22 Rajput Regiment, and four Pakistani troops had been killed in the firing after a group of 10-12 Pakistani soldiers intruded into Indian territory in the Nowgom area of north Kashmir.

It was the most serious truce violation in the past five years and came in the wake of 18 other violations by Pakistani troops since January.
HindustanTimes-Print
© Copyright 2007 Hindustan Times

 

[sivadreams]

Posted: Tuesday , Dec 22, 2009 at 0956 hrs
Jammu:

BSF foiled major infiltration bids by militants to cross into Indian territory as Pakistani troops fired at two forward posts in the Samba sector in the wee hours on Tuesday, in the fifth case of ceasefire violation within a week.

A BSF patrol party noticed some movement of militants at two posts - S M Pur and S M Pur-one - in Ramgarh subsector of Samba and challenged the militants, police officials said.

Pakistani troops then opened fire and the BSF retaliated and the exchange between the two sides continued intermittently for half-an-hour.The militants later fled.

Inspector General of BSF, Jammu frontier, A K Sarolia said a red alert has been sounded in the entire border line with Pakistan and patrolling intensified.

The militants, he said, did not succeed in infiltrating into Jammu and Kashmir.

Pakistani troops had also opened fire at around 2240 hrs last night at Kandral border outpost along the international border, drawing retaliation from BSF personnel.

 

[PlanetWarrior]

All's quite on the western front

 

[courageneverdies]

Please explain this.

A BSF patrol party noticed some movement of militants at two posts - S M Pur and S M Pur-one - in Ramgarh subsector of Samba and challenged the militants, police officials said.

Pakistani troops then opened fire and the BSF retaliated and the exchange between the two sides continued intermittently for half-an-hour.The militants later fled.

Obviously, the "militants" were in Pakistani side. BSF challanges and fires at them while they were in Pakistani land. As it says,

The militants, he said, did not succeed in infiltrating into Jammu and Kashmir.

So it should be the violation of ceasefire from BSF and not Pakistan. Because BSF fired at people in Pakistani land, militants or not, and Pakistani forces have the right to react and this what they did.

KIT Over n Out

 

[DeathGod]

Please explain this.



1.Obviously, the "militants" were in Pakistani side. BSF challanges and fires at them while they were in Pakistani land. As it says,



2.So it should be the violation of ceasefire from BSF and not Pakistan. Because BSF fired at people in Pakistani land, militants or not, and Pakistani forces have the right to react and this what they did.

KIT Over n Out

Well definitely the Pakistani forces have a right to react if BSF fires at there posts. But then a few questions should be answered before we try to potray BSF as the instigator.

1. How can the militants be so close to the Pakistani post that when BSF fires the Pakistani post/forces are engaged? Are militants working hand in hand with the Pakistani forces ? If so is the case then Pakistani forces are to be blamed.

2. Why werent the Pakistani forces engaging the terrorists that were trying to cross-over the border?

3. Is pakistani army conducting search for the group of militants that was trying to voilate the international border? If so then what's been its result?

There are many such questions and maybe on the Indian side of the border most people definitely take it for granted that P.A and the militants work hand in hand in case of militants trying to cross-over in the Indian territory. If someone has some evidence to challenge the claim then it is most welcomed.

 

[T-50]

Please explain this.



Obviously, the "militants" were in Pakistani side. BSF challanges and fires at them while they were in Pakistani land. As it says,



So it should be the violation of ceasefire from BSF and not Pakistan. Because BSF fired at people in Pakistani land, militants or not, and Pakistani forces have the right to react and this what they did.

KIT Over n Out

So you mean to say that India should wait till they cross over?

Well do you know the concept of NO MAN'S Land any one who came close enough of NO Man's land is consider as an act of WAR,

So PAK people starting a WAR with the Help of Army, So you also acknowledge that those Millisent are in hands of gloves from PAK ??govt.

 

[BATMAN]

Why are indians hiding the link of the news item????
Is it reported and compiled by any indian? than there is nothing ot discuss any hypothesis.
If some shooting has taken place than we all know indians have habit of shooting childrens on Pakistan side of the border and on many occasions their border forces crossed the border and killed villagers. same they have applied in Sawat.