'India only gives moral support to Balochistan'

[karan.1970]

Looks like I should quote what one of our Pakistani member said earlier on this topic.



I think this is adequate answer for your post.

Quick comparison of the 2 in terms of incidents and fatalities

Do you see a trend ??

 

[Irfan Baloch]

India will definitely use the balochistan issue to its advantage.......................

No No its a time waster for you and a waste of Indian Taxpayers money.

I have a suggestion for you, instead of wasting time here, make a thread about the possible ISI involvement in the regular humiliation & mockery of the Indian call centre staff at the hands of Europeans and Americans. I am sure it will make a good commercial value story. Then your “ANALists” can sit down and gather the “damning” evidence against ISI.

 

[Areesh]

Quick comparison of the 2 in terms of incidents and fatalities

Do you see a trend ??

So what's the point?

 

[H2O3C4Nitrogen]

Balochistan has 20 times less the population than tha of Kashmir .. Plus the insurgency there is not just limitted to Pakistan but also to Iran and they support from India and Nato from across Afghanistan.
Kasimiri dispute is pure cause of liberation from the tyrany of India , right from day 1 its being justified..
How Much India shines the dispute will always be used by its competeters and illwills to harm India. The Resolution of Kashmir will only benefit India more as it would not have to put the huge amount of effort to contain the revolting populous. But if it stays alive it will haunt India more .

Fueling the Baloch insurgency to offset Kashmir freedom Cause wont help, it might slow it down but it wont gona stop. The Stragists on both sides know it...!!!!

Infact being faced with many insurgecies like that of Naxals and others.. more the Indians delay over Kashmir they would have to face a greater Challange perhaps latter down the road.
India needs to resolve it, the clocks ticking and it would only get worse with time .

 

[LadyGaga]

First of all let me tell you that i can sense your deep concern about the balochistan problem behind your rather long post.I am sure you are affected the most by this since you carry the name baloch.About your gripe with Indian members here,carry on because this is where we all come to vent our spleen.That we do not need to become abusive,while we are doing so is forgotten in the heat of the moment.
It is not about what India feels about Balochis or what Pakistan feels about kashmiris,because believe you me,we Indians and Pakistanis care nothing for kashmiris or balochis.If we did,we would not have made them pawns in a game that has no winner.So it is not about feelings at all.We have the same issues,and we are all ethnically very diverse too.If i point out that punjabis are being killed in balochistan,and hence balochistan is in a state of insurgency,that would be foolish.Look at kashmir.Only kashmiris live there.And the Indian army.Still no peace.While we can blame each other forever,we must stop this game for the sake of those who are suffering.But like i said before,this is a utopian dream,which will never come true.What we can do,is support our own people,improve their life and hope that these movements die down as nature takes its course.We can hope that we do not meddle in each other's affairs,but that is something we can do with a Aman Ki Asha not at LOC.As indians,our motherland is supreme for us,and we will defend her to our last breath.But that does not mean we want Pakistan to suffer or Pakistanis to suffer.India will never attack Pakistan.But yes,she will do what is required to be done,if attacked.

Oh did I bruise your ego yesterday? Well tough because I won’t say sorry. You blame me for being insensitive yet you & other Indian members (with their multiple IDs) continue to mock me on the terrorist activities of BLA & Indian support as a pretext for our Kashmiri support.

You are the one who keeps bringing faith by first accusing me of having Taliban beliefs and then bring up the death of young boy who was left with a “kaffir” tag on his corpse. Note that I didn’t mention his faith or religion because what is more important to me is that he was a human being with equal rights of a citizen of our country. Whether he was Patel, sigh, Sheikh or Anthony is not important. What is important is that he didn’t deserve to die the way he was killed.

How convenient for you and other Indian members to blame Pakistan for all the ills while ignoring the fact that it is your Democratic government where the political parties arrange mass mobs to attack & destroy Churches And Mosques. Your serving Army colonel was found to be involved in the torching of Samjhota express. Your government & its agencies betrayed the trust of the passengers of that unfortunate train. And also killing of thousands of Muslims after the train Incident in Gujrat also pointed towards the fanatic Hindu organisations that have an insatiable obsession with violence towards religious minorities.

You blame me for being insensitive while mocking at the law and order situation in Balochistan? Isn’t that self contradictory? You keep blaming us for religiously intolerant yet its own state who has a record to attack & desecrate the Sikh Holy Site which resulted in thousands of deaths

If anyone thinks that I am religiously insensitive or derogatory then go and check out my post related to train incident in India related to Maoist fighting with Indian state

For all INDIAN arm chair “ANALists” who have become self appointed experts on Balochistan I would like to educate few things

Our province is blessed with a diversity of ethnicities constituting of Baloch, Pashton, and Sindhis & Punjabis. & Hazara. Baloch are not just in Balochistan but are in Sindh & Punjab as well. Some speak Seraki (a Punjabi variation) while some speak Balochi but are ethnically Baloch.

Indians who mourn about Balochistan being ruled by Punjabis are talking from their backside without any due knowledge following is the list of prominent past & present personalities who had been Army chief, Governments, prime ministers, and chief ministers who were ethnically Baloch
Gen Musa (COAS) Farooq Laghari, Balkh Sher Mazari, Zafar Ullah Jamali, Asif Zardari, Zufiqar Ali Magsi, Akbar Bughti

The last guy had been governor & chief Minster of Balochistan & member of nation assembly too. He lost sons, cousins, and grand sons in the tribal infighting which had nothing to do with the state. He was one of the tribal lords who extorted money, vehicles for the right of passage or work from the public & private companies operating in Balochistan. Then he decided to assume the title of freedom fighter when the state refused to bow down to his blackmailing.

Therefore I will say again. Indian “moral” support is nothing but a proxy war its intent is malicious and India has no interest or care for the people of Pakistan. Improve your track record with the minorities so that no more trains are burnt no more Mosques, Temples & churches are destroyed, , desecrated and burnt. If you cant do that then stop claiming to be the biggest democracy and the beacon of goodwill & outright innocence. We Pakistanis have never claimed to be perfect we have our own demons to deal with but we don’t brag about a false pride like you do.

Oh by the way you also brought in Shia Sunni issue. I have family and friends who are from both faith and also I have worked & grew up with Ahmedis. Well you might be pleaseed to know that the Idea of Pakistan was dreamt & proposed by Sunni Poet Allama Iqbal and then together with a Shia Qaid Jinnah we got our Pakistan.

 

[Aslan]

Oh did I bruise your ego yesterday? Well tough because I won’t say sorry. You blame me for being insensitive yet you & other Indian members (with their multiple IDs) continue to mock me on the terrorist activities of BLA & Indian support as a pretext for our Kashmiri support.

You are the one who keeps bringing faith by first accusing me of having Taliban beliefs and then bring up the death of young boy who was left with a “kaffir” tag on his corpse. Note that I didn’t mention his faith or religion because what is more important to me is that he was a human being with equal rights of a citizen of our country. Whether he was Patel, sigh, Sheikh or Anthony is not important. What is important is that he didn’t deserve to die the way he was killed.

How convenient for you and other Indian members to blame Pakistan for all the ills while ignoring the fact that it is your Democratic government where the political parties arrange mass mobs to attack & destroy Churches And Mosques. Your serving Army colonel was found to be involved in the torching of Samjhota express. Your government & its agencies betrayed the trust of the passengers of that unfortunate train. And also killing of thousands of Muslims after the train Incident in Gujrat also pointed towards the fanatic Hindu organisations that have an insatiable obsession with violence towards religious minorities.

You blame me for being insensitive while mocking at the law and order situation in Balochistan? Isn’t that self contradictory? You keep blaming us for religiously intolerant yet its own state who has a record to attack & desecrate the Sikh Holy Site which resulted in thousands of deaths

If anyone thinks that I am religiously insensitive or derogatory then go and check out my post related to train incident in India related to Maoist fighting with Indian state

For all INDIAN arm chair “ANALists” who have become self appointed experts on Balochistan I would like to educate few things

Our province is blessed with a diversity of ethnicities constituting of Baloch, Pashton, and Sindhis & Punjabis. & Hazara. Baloch are not just in Balochistan but are in Sindh & Punjab as well. Some speak Seraki (a Punjabi variation) while some speak Balochi but are ethnically Baloch.

Indians who mourn about Balochistan being ruled by Punjabis are talking from their backside without any due knowledge following is the list of prominent past & present personalities who had been Army chief, Governments, prime ministers, and chief ministers who were ethnically Baloch
Gen Musa (COAS) Farooq Laghari, Balkh Sher Mazari, Zafar Ullah Jamali, Asif Zardari, Zufiqar Ali Magsi, Akbar Bughti

The last guy had been governor & chief Minster of Balochistan & member of nation assembly too. He lost sons, cousins, and grand sons in the tribal infighting which had nothing to do with the state. He was one of the tribal lords who extorted money, vehicles for the right of passage or work from the public & private companies operating in Balochistan. Then he decided to assume the title of freedom fighter when the state refused to bow down to his blackmailing.

Therefore I will say again. Indian “moral” support is nothing but a proxy war its intent is malicious and India has no interest or care for the people of Pakistan. Improve your track record with the minorities so that no more trains are burnt no more Mosques, Temples & churches are destroyed, , desecrated and burnt. If you cant do that then stop claiming to be the biggest democracy and the beacon of goodwill & outright innocence. We Pakistanis have never claimed to be perfect we have our own demons to deal with but we don’t brag about a false pride like you do.

Oh by the way you also brought in Shia Sunni issue. I have family and friends who are from both faith and also I have worked & grew up with Ahmedis. Well you might be pleaseed to know that the Idea of Pakistan was dreamt & proposed by Sunni Poet Allama Iqbal and then together with a Shia Qaid Jinnah we got our Pakistan.

Sir ji very well said, these indians in their quest for defaming and some how destroying Pakistan just forget the simple fact that we are one. No matter how pathetic the situation look, no matter how useless our politicians are and no matter how much they fight and whine, and try to make it look like Punjabi this, Sindhi that, or what ever. But we as people are one. From the distant corner of Baluchistan, to the far end of Kashmir. We are all Pakistanis and we are all Pakistan.

 

[LadyGaga]

Haha.You are going off topic now.Don't get emotional.We are all arm chair analysts,here.You about India,and me about Pakistan.But we do so because of concern for these issues,not because of any other reason i think.And we should really stop getting personal over these things.

No No its a time waster for you and a waste of Indian Taxpayers money.

I have a suggestion for you, instead of wasting time here, make a thread about the possible ISI involvement in the regular humiliation & mockery of the Indian call centre staff at the hands of Europeans and Americans. I am sure it will make a good commercial value story. Then your “ANALists” can sit down and gather the “damning” evidence against ISI.

 

[H2O3C4Nitrogen]

First of all let me tell you that i can sense your deep concern about the balochistan problem behind your rather long post.I am sure you are affected the most by this since you carry the name baloch.About your gripe with Indian members here,carry on because this is where we all come to vent our spleen.That we do not need to become abusive,while we are doing so is forgotten in the heat of the moment.
It is not about what India feels about Balochis or what Pakistan feels about kashmiris,because believe you me,we Indians and Pakistanis care nothing for kashmiris or balochis.If we did,we would not have made them pawns in a game that has no winner.So it is not about feelings at all.We have the same issues,and we are all ethnically very diverse too.If i point out that punjabis are being killed in balochistan,and hence balochistan is in a state of insurgency,that would be foolish.Look at kashmir.Only kashmiris live there.And the Indian army.Still no peace.While we can blame each other forever,we must stop this game for the sake of those who are suffering.But like i said before,this is a utopian dream,which will never come true.What we can do,is support our own people,improve their life and hope that these movements die down as nature takes its course.We can hope that we do not meddle in each other's affairs,but that is something we can do with a Aman Ki Asha not at LOC.As indians,our motherland is supreme for us,and we will defend her to our last breath.But that does not mean we want Pakistan to suffer or Pakistanis to suffer.India will never attack Pakistan.But yes,she will do what is required to be done,if attacked.

Baloch insurgency can in noway be compared to that of Kashmiri Freedom Cause.. Kashmir has never been an integeral part of India .. and never shall be
I think with time these issues wont die out no matter what, they always bring the sniffing mediaters in persuit of there interests, smtimes theyl support ya smtimes they wont, India however itself has to realize that its a bigger country, its econmy is far more good, then why not resolve such issues which could hamper the the Indian dream of bocoming a global giant comparaebale to China,Europe etc. Havent been it for Kashmir Dispute India would have probaly out paced China and the subcontinent could have been grt place. Nobody from India or Pakistan would have wished to go to US / Europe or the Stinky ME insearch of better future. But like they say devide and rule , thats exactly whats happening here. I think having much bigger objectives at scope India must act maturely to resolve the Kasmir Dispute.

 

[Irfan Baloch]

Haha.You are going off topic now.Don't get emotional.We are all arm chair analysts,here.You about India,and me about Pakistan.But we do so because of concern for these issues,not because of any other reason i think.And we should really stop getting personal over these things.

thanks
I liked your earlier post though and I share the same sentiment. We will also defend it to our final breath.. looks like we have to mature a lot until we accept each other. If Europe can do that then maybe we can too one day.

sadly the relations have been less than exemplary and we have history of hostilities towards each other. If I will quote 1 issue blaming India then you will quote 10 and then someone will come back with 20 so and so forth.

Yes we need to reconcile a lot of differences not because it suits Uncle Sam (for now) but for the sake of over a billion people in the region.

 

[LadyGaga]

I think the sub continent can still be a great place.We are at war over kashmir because,it has become some kind of status symbol.There has to be some middle of the road solution for this log jam.Do you think that small independent kashmir will be able to survive for long?And if it does,in what shape will it emerge?The hindu/buddhist areas namely Jammu and Leh ladakh will obviously be with India.If the kashmiris want to form their own little paradise,it should be given a serious thought over and if it make sense it might just work out for them.About Kashmir never having been a part of India,i dunno,because nothing was part of the India of today prior to 1947.All i know is that the king acceded to India,when pakistan attacked kashmir.Just like balochistan acceded to pakistan.Anyway whether it is integral part of India or not has become irrelevant now,since Indian army is always parked in kashmir.This problem can be resolved but only if people of kashmir want to solve it.Throwing stones and not going to schools is not going to solve anything.You get what you deserve at the end of the day.We divided the country once and look where it has taken us.Do you blame us for not wanting another division?I honestly feel it is for the kashmiris to make up their minds and take the road which leads them to peace and prosperity.Rest is as you say Inshallah!

Baloch insurgency can in noway be compared to that of Kashmiri Freedom Cause.. Kashmir has never been an integeral part of India .. and never shall be
I think with time these issues wont die out no matter what, they always bring the sniffing mediaters in persuit of there interests, smtimes theyl support ya smtimes they wont, India however itself has to realize that its a bigger country, its econmy is far more good, then why not resolve such issues which could hamper the the Indian dream of bocoming a global giant comparaebale to China,Europe etc. Havent been it for Kashmir Dispute India would have probaly out paced China and the subcontinent could have been grt place. Nobody from India or Pakistan would have wished to go to US / Europe or the Stinky ME insearch of better future. But like they say devide and rule , thats exactly whats happening here. I think having much bigger objectives at scope India must act maturely to resolve the Kasmir Dispute.

 

[Irfan Baloch]

I think the sub continent can still be a great place.We are at war over kashmir because,it has become some kind of status symbol.There has to be some middle of the road solution for this log jam.Do you think that small independent kashmir will be able to survive for long........................?

good post again Lady "Poker Face" bit off topic as we usually do
whenever we talk the discussion is bound to go towards Bangladesh & Kashmir. being isolated and land locked as issue is something Kashmiris should be left to think about. we need to respect their right of self determination. your point is very valid re Ladakh being more Chinese and Jammu being Hindu dominated now.

there are many land locked countries in the world which dint stop them from developing. a good cordial relation after a peaceful solution according to the aspirations of the people that also suits Pakistan and India (in the middle road) would only bring benefit to all parties.

Balochistan is entirely a different issue. it is outright law and order situation created by few greedy sardars under the banner of nationalism who have managed to mute the peaceful & democratic Baloch movement as well.

when it comes to a typical Baloch Sardar (known to be at odds with Pakistani state ) the level of concern for the locals is no more than warlords of Afghanistan or Africa.

the need is to support and protect the peaceful Baloch for the fair share in the local resources and the establishment of the infrastructure & education which will marginalise these medieval Sardars which they would not like so they keep sabotaging. Sometimes making press conferences from UAE or Afghanistan with the Indian “moral” support.

 

[LadyGaga]

My post is off -topic because whenever we discuss anything involving India,the subject veers to Kashmir.When will you realise,that India is not just Kashmir.We are a huge huge country with so many people.Kashmir does not figure very high on an avg Indian's list of priorities.We are all busy in our own states.It is the Kashmiris who have to work for their own development.They want to be spoon fed.
Don't bring china into this now.We are diverse enough already and we have other boundary disputes with china ,which are also going to take forever to resolve.About Kashmir,like i said,its the people who have to make their decision.The armies of india and pakistan are doing their job,so no point in blaming them.About Baloch movement,all i can say is,whatever grouse they have,that must be handled by pakistani establishment.Pakistan needs to develop governance and policies which do not appear to be sectarian atleast.That by itself will solve some of the issues i think.For other things,balochis and kashmiris must move their watever's because heaven only helps those who help themselves.
There may be many more factors at work in balochistan than we think.Sometimes the obvious makes you miss the hidden.

good post again Lady "Poker Face" bit off topic as usual.
whenever we talk the discussion is bound to go towards Bangladesh & Kashmir. being isolated and land locked as issue is something Kashmiris should be left to think about. we need to respect their right of self determination. your point is very valid re Ladakh being more Chinese and Jammu being Hindu dominated now.

there are many land locked countries in the world which dint stop them from developing. a good cordial relation after a peaceful solution according to the aspirations of the people that also suits Pakistan and India (in the middle road) would only bring benefit to all parties.

Balochistan is entirely a different issue. it is outright law and order situation created by few greedy sardars under the banner of nationalism who have managed to mute the peaceful & democratic Baloch movement as well.

when it comes to a typical Baloch Sardar (known to be at odds with Pakistani state ) the level of concern for the locals is no more than warlords of Afghanistan or Africa.

the need is to support and protect the peaceful Baloch for the fair share in the local resources and the establishment of the infrastructure & education which will marginalise these medieval Sardars which they would not like so they keep sabotaging. Sometimes making press conferences from UAE or Afghanistan with the Indian “moral” support.

 

[karan.1970]

So what's the point?

Look at the 2009 figures and you will know that impact wise the situation in 2 areas is not very different.

 

[SQ8]

Firstly i would like to thank u for this insightful article, next i have two questions for u,

If the human rights violations mentioned in this article were true then is it possible for this resentful baloch population to some day get integrated??

Next if this article of India helping baloch which for even once i cannot believe not because of our righteousness but because of spineless Leaders which i know govern this country, were to become a reality and both the baloch and Sindhi's form an alliance what do u think would be the result of it for Pakistan as a Nation.

If u would be kind enough to give me reply taking in to account both the possibilites of India helping and not helping this alliance.

Actually your leader arent spineless, extremely shrewd is more like it.
The Baloch Sindhi Alliance is very unlikely, a little bad blood between the two as well in some cases. Also, most Sindhi's are content as long as they get to have their piece of cake which is equal to Punjabs.

However, I do remember a conversation with an ISI major a few years ago... He was convinced Pakistan was heading for breakup..with Azad Baloch, Sindhustra.. Punjab joining with Indian Punjab and making a breakway Greater Punjab state while NWFP being absorbed into Afghanistan... far fetched at that time..

India's assistance is as sure as the sun, Indian Ammunation for the Ak and MG's has been caught many times from Waziristan and from BLA fellows Loralai( they did not even bother removing their OFB serials)..But the extent of this assistance is limited by its reach.. So if an alliance like this even comes to the surface... expect it to be brutally crushed.. and any Indian support hunted down and eliminated.

 

[anurag_singh]

good post again Lady "Poker Face" bit off topic as we usually do
whenever we talk the discussion is bound to go towards Bangladesh & Kashmir. being isolated and land locked as issue is something Kashmiris should be left to think about. we need to respect their right of self determination. your point is very valid re Ladakh being more Chinese and Jammu being Hindu dominated now.


Not Chinese Buddhisth Indians.