India not to criminalise marital rape

[ayesha.a]

Dowry deaths were sad but Govt provided a strict law to "Protect" women, and they themselves have turned it into Extortion Racket.

Big up Women Empowerment.

In India, a married man commits suicide every 9 minutes (Section 498a), and a woman is raped every 20 minutes. Why do you think the latter is highlighted by local and international media, while the former seems to be largely ignored? - Quora

That's a classic example of misusing statistics to mislead the reader. The original report only said that one married man commits suicide every 9 minutes. It did not say that all those suicides were due to being framed in false cases. In fact, the report made it clear that the major reason was economic hardship, and since men face more pressure to be breadwinners for the family than women, they are the ones who most feel burdened by that. Note that among adoloscents, the suicide rate is much higher for girls than boys - because when neither boys nor girls are under pressure to earn, girls have more cause to commit suicide than boys. And even among adults, if the cause of economic hardship is taken away, guess which gender faces more hardship?

You are linking to "quora", a website where anybody can ask anything. Can you find a proper, cited study that says that the cause of "a man committing suicide every nine minutes" is largely attributable to misuse of laws made to protect women? I find it disturbing that some media houses have also made that unwarranted speculation.

One married man commits suicide every 9 minutes | Latest News & Updates at Daily News & Analysis

Note: I am aware that laws are misused to harass innocent people. But that does not mean that laws should not exist at all. Many people in district jails, imprisoned for petty crimes like burglary or pickpocketing, are innocent. But that does not mean that we should legalize burglary or pickpocketing.

 

[jaatram]

That's a classic example of misusing statistics to mislead the reader.

It's funny that only people not providing statistics are batting for marital rape to back their claims.

 

[ayesha.a]

Nope framing husband on false charges is easy all you have do it report it, point in case go through how 498 A has been misused.

You missed the point. I said that if marital rape is difficult to prove, false charges of marital rape are even more difficult to prove. Not false charges in general. Please look at the context of my reply to that person. Do tell me how many men have been falsely (or even rightly) prosecuted for marital rape.

It's funny that only people not providing statistics are batting for marital rape to back their claims.

What statistics do you want me to give, and why? Did I offer any statistics, or try to make a point by employing statistics? BTW, it is better not to provide statistics, than to provide false or misleading ones.

If I have a point to prove through statistics, I will do so. I was only pointing out the misleading way in which you linked corelation and causation (a fallacy they teach you to avoid in any logic or stats course.)

Which of my claims do you want statistical validation for?

 

[MilSpec]

bad decision.

 

[Desertfalcon]

2) A large section of Indian society seems to agree. Even on this thread, I see only two people unequivocally condemning this (@Koovie and @Desertfalcon), and only one of them is Indian.

I could care less about what country justifies it. I could care less about what nationalities condemn it. I AM sensitive to a country's cultural uniqueness within reason. I have no problem with any country enacting laws that reflect their values as long as the truly innocent are not harmed. If Saudi Arabia wishes to cut the hand off a thief with a long record of unrepentant stealing, I would not want such punishment in my country, but I accept Saudi law in the matter. If Indians wish to outlaw beef eating, then I would defer to their traditions in doing so, but the idea that it is a defense of cultural values to allow a man to brutally rape his wife, is unacceptable. It's an affront to human dignity. I don't know about all the Indian people, but polls seem to disagree with the government's position, just as I do.

HT poll result: 62% voters dismiss govt's stand on marital rape

 

[Koovie]

That is the different between RAPE and Marital Rape you moron.

Rape : Forcible sex with non consenting partner
Marital Rape: Forcible sex with legally consenting partner.

No. Rape is forcing someone to have sex with you against her will, the relation does not matter.

Find out if your mother was raped by your father and the resulting child was you.

Nope, my parents fell in love and married abroad...

Looks like you Male chauvinist attitude is getting dangerously exposed.

Most ridiculous comment ever!

Made by the guy who defends marital rape.

Please don't

What?

 

[MilSpec]

The reason i oppose this is because i can bet on my life this will be misused. If Section 498a and the 2012 rape laws were not being so largely misused by women on men i would not have had a problem with it. But since the laws are being misused to a very large extent i have a serious problem with these laws.

Hey,
Isn't that essentially the nature of every law in the IPC which can be used under false accusation towards litigation. Everything from theft to murder have the potential to be misused, but that doesn't justify us not protecting womens rights, especially in the calous way the minister spoke about it in context of sacrement of marriage in India.

@ayesha.a In this day and age marital rape or even a hint of possibility of marital abuse needs protection, I was under the impression that Modi'ji government will be a progressive about these issues and take proactive steps to ensure protection of women, but this step seems backward and absurd.

I absolutely detest the idea that marital rape wouldn't be defined to be a punishable criminal offense. PM should look into this and revert the stand. One of the steps is to write to the PMO,, it is as simple as writing on the forum to bring visibility to the issue.

 

[Levina]

Problem is, you are downright ignoring the problem. File any case you want without an evidence then see the men be emotionally,financially destroyed.

Do you know to what extent the rape laws and dowry laws are being misused. I seriously think you should look into it and try to understand our fears rather than being sarcastic. If something is going to create far more problems then solve it the best thing to do is to avoid it. This thing only looks good on paper. IT will destroy a lot of innocent lives.



This is the fault of women themselves, not men. If women would not have misused those laws, this would not have been an issue. The blame is on yourself. Don't blame us.

We don't have a problem with women's empowerment. But using that to make one sided laws favoring a particular gender is what we have a problem with. Point is, feminists are only bothered about themselves, screw the men and the consequences they have to face. For once admit the problem exists rather than ignoring it and trivializing it.

Its irritating to see you ignore it completely and yet expect men to understand your problems ...



Except there are unusually way too many of them.

Edited!!

Do not exalt a 6feet tall man as a victim, and don't compare him with diminutive figure of a woman. Men 're physically stronger and ergo 've lesser chances of getting violated compared to women. And this is no rocket science!!!
You might hate feminists, but the number of feminists is as less as one in 10 in India.
This might not shock your kind but it shocks me
One rape every half-hour in India; a dowry death every 75 minutes | News | Women

And those who died were not feminists.
You and the government 're protecting a bunch lascivious men by accepting that since a spousal rape is hard to prove it should not be considered a rape.
Hats off! You win!!

I just noticed this.... Either this is a very unfortunate choice of words or.............

Wrong choice of words??
I was being brusque.
It has been so since long, the simplest example of this is that a woman has to change her name when she gets married. What does it prove?

 

[SrNair]

The only Sati practiced by the elite in India was the Sikhs. Ranjith Singh's wives became Sati on his funeral pyre. So it was more of a Sikh and Bengali thing.

At that time most cases of Sati was happened to avoid the dishonour acts from the invading Central Asian /Muslim forces.
Rani Padmini case was an example.

 

[SitaramVillas]

You have missed something and I will as you apparently do not know the difference between "criminal law" and "civil law or torts". It is far easier to win a case in civil law. One need not prove "beyond a reasonable doubt". One need only prove, "a preponderance of evidence". You may win a monetary settlement in civil law, but there are no criminal penalties. Check to see how many of those exact same cases that you use as an example, have been successfully prosecuted in 'criminal' court, and you will have your answer. Virtually NONE have.

Some punishment is better than none. Bankrupting a person or an organization is to a certain degree satisfactory one would say. The person's reputation in taters anyway finishes his story for him forever.

If it is forcible sexual assault, rape? Yes! A marriage does not give one the right to rape one's wife!

Does one need to rape one's wife to have sex in a marriage? Marriage is a legal consent signed by the wife to fulfill the man's sexual needs and vice versa. The consent is given and presumed.

Sure sign you have lost this argument my friend. Ad hominem

It was you who started out by saying I am making an amoral argument. I just gave it back to you modified.

Who says it is anal? Who says it would be rough? Who says that just because there may be physical evidence, the father is the guilty party? You have a very naive idea of how such crimes are committed, (often involving intimidation and not 'forced rough sex'.). ANY prosecutor will tell you that such cases are always difficult and frequently problematic to prove in court.

Sodomy is supposed to be anal. You asked how is one to know the man is not sodomizing his daughter. Who says anal sex is not rough? Who says the father's semen stains in his daughter's body is not evidence? Oh really, all these rapes are gentle rapes? Do you know how spurious your argument is? If Any prosecutor is telling you such cases are difficult to prove then he is lying.

What on earth are you on about here?

What on Earth were you about expressing horror about India not criminalizing marital rape?

So I just pointed you to a better tool to deal with marital rapes. It is called culture. A culture where man is taught a woman is a human being too and his equal partner. A culture where a man does not consider it his right to force himself on any woman, leave alone his wife. Indian culture to be precise.

 

[SitaramVillas]

1. even if roop kanwar volunteered to burn herself upon her dead husband's burning pyre, she would have been brainwashed into doing this via a evil cultural environment... it is crime against humanity to retain such a environment.

2. however, roop kanwar was forced into the wood-to-be-burnt by her village and her family.

from ( Sati: Roop Kanwar was cheered as she burnt on her husband's pyre, now she's a faint memory : States: Uttar Pradesh - India Today )...

It is a crime against humanity to let you open your mouth. Roop Kanwar was not brainwashed. You are brainwashed mullah.

 

[SirHatesALot]

Govt should reconsider this decision may be take time and make law not easy to misuse but this should be criminalized.

 

[Lord ZeN]

No. Rape is forcing someone to have sex with you against her will, the relation does not matter.

Considering the fact that most of our sisters who are prone to this kind of brutality hails from rural and backward urban background makes implementing this law as it is in the Western society quite counterproductive. Most of our women (especially from rural and backward regions) who are victims of such atrocities won't go against her husband claiming that she was raped by her own husband since she has to take many things into consideration including her child's future ( which would be really bleak without a sound financial support) , her acceptance in society after making such a complaint and finally her survival would be at stake. This law can also be misused by wives belonging to rich urban class as a way to either trap or blackmail their husbands just like what happened with Domestic violence act..

 

[SrNair]

Feminists??
My foot!!

Do not exalt a 6feet tall man as a victim, and don't compare him with diminutive figure of a woman. Men 're physically stronger and ergo 've lesser chances of getting violated compared to women. And this is no rocket science!!!
You might hate feminists, but the number of feminists is as less as one in 10 in India.
This might not shock your kind but it shocks me
One rape every half-hour in India; a dowry death every 75 minutes | News | Women

And those who died were not feminists.
You and the government 're protecting a bunch lascivious men by accepting that since a spousal rape is hard to prove it should not be considered a rape.
Hats off! You win!!


Wrong choice of words??
I was being brusque.
It has been so since long, the simplest example of this is that a woman has to change her name when she gets married. What does it prove?

I think peoples in here ignored a basic point in the OP.
Current laws in our constitution is enough to protect the womens from any type of torture from their families.This is not about the laws but about its implementation and awareness.
In rural areas and in that sense majority of women in the Indian households is not aware about their rights and laws.And What is the use of stockpiling the amendments
like this ?Suppose if we implement this law
our govt establshments cant ensure the prevention of case at this level of public awarness .And some guys pointed out its ptotherside of misuse.
Women can torture a six feet man if he hias clear heart and innocent behaviour ,but a short ,slim guy can torture his wife if he has cruel mentality.
We need awarness program and effective implementation .

 

[Desertfalcon]

Some punishment is better than none. Bankrupting a person or an organization is to a certain degree satisfactory one would say. The person's reputation in taters anyway finishes his story for him forever.

Except it is not punishment as no one is convicted of a crime. It's restitution for damages, (as if I hit your car or a tree I cut down, fell on your house.), and nothing else. Not the same as a crime or criminal law and my point was, in those cases that you site, virtually NONE of them, resulted in criminal convictions as those crimes are very, very, hard to successfully prosecute.

Does one need to rape one's wife to have sex in a marriage?

According to the Indian government's interpretation of this...yes, in some occasions. Disgusting!

Marriage is a legal consent signed by the wife to fulfill the man's sexual needs and vice versa. The consent is given and presumed.

The woman does NOT consent to being held down, violently sexually assaulted and brutally raped by her husband. Only a barbaric society would think that.

Sodomy is supposed to be anal. You asked how is one to know the man is not sodomizing his daughter. Who says anal sex is not rough? Who says the father's semen stains in his daughter's body is not evidence? Oh really, all these rapes are gentle rapes? Do you know how spurious your argument is? If Any prosecutor is telling you such cases are difficult to prove then he is lying.

Sodomy laws and definitions usually include oral as well as anal sex. India's does. » LGBT Section 377 And yes, in many cases involving incest, the rapes are as you put it, "gentle rapes" involving intimidation and threats to achieve submission and condoms are usually used, precluding any DNA evidence. That you are so ignorant of these facts should tell you something. It does me.

What on Earth were you about expressing horror about India not criminalizing marital rape?

So I just pointed you to a better tool to deal with marital rapes. It is called culture. A culture where man is taught a woman is a human being too and his equal partner. A culture where a man does not consider it his right to force himself on any woman, leave alone his wife. Indian culture to be precise.

...and yet you defend the Indian government's interpretation of law that says that no wife has the right to claim she was raped or sexually assaulted by her husband. If he ties her to a bed and brutally, sexually assaults her and rapes her...it is 100% perfectly legal. If that is the "culture", it is barbaric and should be changed.