India may consider abrogate Indus Water treaty to "punish" Pakistan

[The Sandman]

This has been written about a 1,000 times can we stop bringing the right-wing Indian hot air into this?

-They are a low riparian state themselves and the response from China will be even worse. This was sent through unofficially to them.
-You can't simply store water in Kashmir, the elevations and rainfall means the dams are filled to capacity fast, risking complete destruction unless the water is released, hence the the run-of-the-river dams India is building in Kashmir.
-Third it will lead to war and much else.

Thanks for this!

 

[ziaulislam]

Pakistan should be prepared to see the Indians "abrogate" the 1960 Indus water treaty, in a response to the event in Kashmir. They may seek to divert more water in hopes of pressuring Pakistan.

Pakistan needs to get serious on water management and agricultural productivity.
A part of this would be looking at the economically affordable/implementable parts of the Pakistan Flood Control System. The Grand Indus Canal, Extended Grand Indus Canal and Makran Canaal, for example, could be dug by hand by solders and volunteers in an act of national resolve. The Current Dam fund is almost up to 10 Billion Rupees (which is only USD $70 million or so, but this is a start). Volunteer labor could be one way the young people's energy is channeled to a productive good all can be a part of. It might take 5-10 years to build the whole thing, but it would be like a national reservoir that could be concrete lined when the money comes in, but in the mean time would allow excess water to be transferred to more areas to increase the amount of arable land. It would like the "kachi" (unfinshed) canal in Sindh; that has opened up more arable land. The engineer work has been done to prove its viability, and should be seen as a way to funnel excess water while the dams are being build in KPK. We will then be praying for Floods so we can use the water.

https://image.slidesharecdn.com/pfc...flood-control-system-63-728.jpg?cb=1316460625

The Afghanis in one area did the same to irrigate their fields, with the guidance and vision of one persistent Japanese Doctor.

The Indians will try to go to the max within the treaty so as not to be seen to abrogate the treaty outright. We must start planning and get ahead of this while we have the young people. We should look to china's example, in the 1960s and 1970s they build thousands of miles of tunnels for national defense with simple machines and pick axes, we need to galvanize our massive youth to build this canal and serve the nation. If we can't convince people to volunteer, a fund to pay the unemployed youth a basic wage of US $100 a month for this kind of work will also be a fair compromise. If we can get Funding from our allies, we could employ 100,000s of youths this way, helping to generate jobs as well as solve the water crisis to come. Other youths could be used to clear silt from as many current canals as possible.

not a bad idea, we should immdeditely strike down the water reserves on the three rivers we hand for free to india(doesnt happen anywhere in the world).. thus we will not need any dams as we will have sufficient water

 

[Max]

More hot air.

 

[American Pakistani]

Work with China to divert Indus water towards Gilgit Baltistan. China is not part of IWT so no issues.

 

[maximuswarrior]

No doubt that Pakistan will turn to China and something will be worked out to punish India. We also know where the water flows from.

 

[Chhatrapati]

It can be done, you didn't pay attention to what happened on the brahmaputra river a little while back, do Google it. The rest of your post doesn't make sense.

Sir, I must say, this one is again a Media hot air (along with some politicians) based on some incidents that happened between India and China. The river Brahmaputra flows just fine, and it is not a river that's our life line. If you look at map of Brahmaputra you'll see why. And you are comparing apples to oranges, Brahmaputra flows for the most part through China, then discharges to India, which feeds on monsoon from Arunachal regions and other small tributaries to flow in to Bangladesh.

If you withdraw and pile on the pressure, the Chinese will do likewise. War is not needed when there are other ways. You need to search the forum to see how many article, experts from India have said the same thing i.e. that being a lower state we can't do much.

Provided China actually do something. Besides there is no formal treaty for water sharing with China. The said comments are a hypothetical scenario, apart from rhetoric, it is extremely difficult.

What Pakistan must do is to conserve the water that flows into Pakistan rather than complaining how much India is 'stealing', in fact, your inefficiency is covered up with the rhetoric on India.

And I stress, we have never once failed to abide by the IWT and we will continue to do so irrespective of our relationship. (Given we fought 3 wars since then).

 

[imadul]

Hindu may wish to do this but they dont have the mettle to do it.
But time will come as our Messenger foretold, "Muslims of Hind will invade Hind and they shall imprison her princes aristocrats and when they will return they will meet Son of Mary in Al Sham against Anti-Christ and Allah will grant victory through them (Pakistan Army).

 

[jetray]

-They are a low riparian state themselves and the response from China will be even worse.

China has only control over brahmaputra, not ganges which flows across most of the northern plains. North East India gets enough rain during monsoon, in fact cherrapunji has the record of getting highest rainfall in the world.

Lets say for argument sake china stops the water flow, it will not have a big impact on India as a whole bcos NE only forms 10-15% of landmass. At the best they might throw some poor farmers out of agriculture.

-You can't simply store water in Kashmir, the elevations and rainfall means the dams are filled to capacity fast, risking complete destruction unless the water is released, hence the the run-of-the-river dams India is building in Kashmir.

True , building dams in kashmir to store water is not feasible only run of the mill dams to generate electricity is feasible.

 

[Crystal-Clear]

Raad is made for such situations. plus multiple other options .

 

[waz]

Sir, I must say, this one is again a Media hot air (along with some politicians) based on some incidents that happened between India and China. The river Brahmaputra flows just fine, and it is not a river that's our life line. If you look at map of Brahmaputra you'll see why. And you are comparing apples to oranges, Brahmaputra flows for the most part through China, then discharges to India, which feeds on monsoon from Arunachal regions and other small tributaries to flow in to Bangladesh.

Of course it is hot air mate, sadly it's used a great deal by both sides i.e. 'the fear of water loss and the 'use of it as a form of punishment'.
Of course the Brahmaputra is not the lifeline but that wasn't the only river I had in mind. But look it's already been done.

Provided China actually do something. Besides there is no formal treaty for water sharing with China. The said comments are a hypothetical scenario, apart from rhetoric, it is extremely difficult.

What Pakistan must do is to conserve the water that flows into Pakistan rather than complaining how much India is 'stealing', in fact, your inefficiency is covered up with the rhetoric on India.

And I stress, we have never once failed to abide by the IWT and we will continue to do so irrespective of our relationship. (Given we fought 3 wars since then).

The IWT is the best water sharing agreement on the planet, aside what the US has internally among various states. I admit Pakistan has been painfully at fault here for doing nothing about mass wastage and conserving. I hope things continue well.

 

[waz]

China has only control over brahmaputra, not ganges which flows across most of the northern plains. North East India gets enough rain during monsoon, in fact cherrapunji has the record of getting highest rainfall in the world.

Lets say for argument sake china stops the water flow, it will not have a big impact on India as a whole bcos NE only forms 10-15% of landmass. At the best they might throw some poor farmers out of agriculture.

Nope it has control over the Koshi (flows though Tibet), Ghaghara River (flows though Tibet), both major tributaries of the Ganges. You also have the Sutlej river of Indian Punjab.

All roads lead to China as the old saying goes.

India can't rely on the monsoon rains anymore, they are showing signs of decline i.e. more rain on far fewer days. It has Indian geologists alarmed, here you go;

A decline in monsoon rainfall since the 1950s has already been observed.

There is also an increasing amount of evidence pointing towards an increase in the number of heavy rainfall events. In 2014, Deepti Singh, a graduate student at Stanford University, and her colleagues analysed daily rainfall records published by the IMD since 1951. Although the average rainfall has reduced by 1mm per day over the last 60 years, Singh notes, “the day to day variability in rainfall during these months has increased, leading to periods of heavy rainfall or prolonged dry spells.”

https://www.downtoearth.org.in/news...se-of-erratic-monsoon-sporadic-flooding-55128


According to the Economic Survey 2017-18 (Vol. 1), average annual rainfall in India has declined by about 86mm over the last three decades. This has impacted the agricultural output, and by extension the economy, leading to an approximate 1.5% loss in GDP annually. But why are rain patterns changing, and what does the future hold?

Over the decades, there has been a constant drop in both the southwest and northeast monsoons. Between the 1970s and the last decade, June-to-September rainfall declined by an average of 26mm, while October-to-December rain declined by 33mm. This has reduced the kharif crop produce by 12.8% and the rabi crop produce by 6.7% across the country.

https://weather.com/en-IN/india/monsoon/news/2018-07-05-rain-patterns-economy-ecology


Typically increases in total rainfall over India may be in the region of 5-10%, although some climate models suggest more and some less. Climate simulations also show different patterns of rainfall change, so it is difficult to predict how rainfall might change within India.

A 5-10% change in total rainfall sounds small – does it really matter to life in India? The Indian monsoon is remarkably stable as a whole, with a mean total of around 850mm in the months of June to September, and an interannual (year-to-year) variation of only around 10% in most cases. Even these relatively small variations in the Indian monsoon can influence things like agricultural production and the stocks and commodities market, so a 5-10% change on top could have significant impacts.

https://www.rmets.org/resource/indian-monsoon-changing-climate


While there has been no overall change observed in seasonal mean rainfall, there has already been a reduction in the frequency of light-to-moderate rain days, and an increase in the frequency of heavy rain days.

https://www.imperial.ac.uk/grantham...d-flood-risk/the-ganges-river-basin-in-india/

True , building dams in kashmir to store water is not feasible only run of the mill dams to generate electricity is feasible.

Agreed 100%.

 

[Samurai_assassin]

When will Pakistanis come to their senses that India is an all out enemy of Pakistan. We need to stop this pathetic big open heart policy. We need to be more aggressive and assertive towards any neighbouring nations who threatens us.

 

[Zee-shaun]

Although it's usually wise to ignore a mad barking dog, we should become more vocal in international fora and inform the world that this water blackmail could result in a nuclear exchange as the life of 220+ million people depends on water supply from these rivers.

At the same time heat up the insurgencies, specially the indigenous freedom struggle in Kashmir. Revive Khalistan movement from our own soil which has been dormant since the nineties. Befriend the Sikhs in East Punjab, give them more facilities and better acceas to pilgrimage. Give Taliban access to IoK and don't worry about the dehati aurat next door.

Hum par ilzaam to wese bhi hai, aise bhi sahi.

 

[FuturePAF]

When will Pakistanis come to their senses that India is an all out enemy of Pakistan. We need to stop this pathetic big open heart policy. We need to be more aggressive and assertive towards any neighbouring nations who threatens us.

Germany and France were once the most bitter of enemies. India need not be the enemy of Pakistan, nor vice versa. For discussions sake, If India allowed Kashmir to become an independent nation, what would be left for India and Pakistan to fight about. Both nations could concentrate on economic development and better the lives of a larger number of Humanity then even what China has done. India and Pakistan could freely trade through each others territory and travel to their respective holy sites. The entire region could be brought up to western standards of living in due time.

I know I know this sounds like the most naive statement ever, but can you say if you have met a person from the other country outside of South Asia, you don't look at them with hate but like you meet a neighbor.

If we can convince India that it is in their own interest (both short term and even more so long term) to let Kashmir go free, we can come to a grand bargain. They don't have to lose face and can end this pointless humanitarian crisis once and for all. Pakistan survived the loss of its eastern Half, and India, a 5000 year civilization, will survive the loss of Kashmir.

 

[MultaniGuy]

Germany and France were once the most bitter of enemies. India need not be the enemy of Pakistan, nor vice versa. For discussions sake, If India allowed Kashmir to become an independent nation, what would be left for India and Pakistan to fight about. Both nations could concentrate on economic development and better the lives of a larger number of Humanity then even what China has done. India and Pakistan could freely trade through each others territory and travel to their respective holy sites. The entire region could be brought up to western standards of living in due time.

I know I know this sounds like the most naive statement ever, but can you say if you have met a person from the other country outside of South Asia, you don't look at them with hate but like you meet a neighbor.

If we can convince India that it is in their own interest (both short term and even more so long term) to let Kashmir go free, we can come to a grand bargain. They don't have to lose face and can end this pointless humanitarian crisis once and for all. Pakistan survived the loss of its eastern Half, and India, a 5000 year civilization, will survive the loss of Kashmir.

Come on mate you are not falling for that bullshit that Republic of India is a 5000 year old civilization?

Republic of India was created in 1947 like Pakistan was.

Work with China to divert Indus water towards Gilgit Baltistan. China is not part of IWT so no issues.

Well sir, I think that is almost impossible unless you think we can do it through Aksai Chin of Chinese part.

Here is the map:


You will need the best engineers in the world to reroute the Indus River to stop flowing into Ladakh and start flowing into Aksai Chin through a Canal system and then into Gilgit-Baltistan.