India-made automatic rifle production stuck in red tape

[Kinetic]

DRDO MCIWS
View attachment 183171

IA must go for MCIWS. Buy Indian only.

 

[Abingdonboy]

IA must go for MCIWS. Buy Indian only.

Of course they will, to equip more than 1 million men an indigenous rifle is the only viable solution.

 

[Water Car Engineer]

The article doesn't say exactly what INSAS version they are referring to, perhaps it is the Excalibur.
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It's not excalibur, this updated INSAS was talked about since 2011-12, no images of it.

Excalibur is in limited production btw. Assam rifles were showing it off recently.

 

[Abingdonboy]

It's not excalibur, this updated INSAS was talked about since 2011-12, no images of it.

Excalibur is in limited production btw. Assam rifles were showing it off recently.

ICG too use the Excalibur

 

[Genesis]

I guess the army does not want to waste more money on a better INSAS version & wants to go straight for MICWIS system @sancho your thoughts

So India plans to go full MICWIS? Even Americans are not doing this due to cost, If it's anything like the other programs around the world, it's probably special forces, then maybe a few NCOs get it.

The mass majority of the infantry probably will still use a standard rifle.

Though I could be wrong about Indian plans.

 

[Rafi]

If PAK army has captured INSAS rifles - perhaps someone from the army who has fired the rifle ca give their views on the rifle?

The general opinion on the rifle was not good, poorly manufactured, liable to jam, and not very robust, was the damning conclusion of our assessment.

 

[Water Car Engineer]

So India plans to go full MICWIS? Even Americans are not doing this due to cost, If it's anything like the other programs around the world, it's probably special forces, then maybe a few NCOs get it.

The mass majority of the infantry probably will still use a standard rifle.

Though I could be wrong about Indian plans.

The standard army infantry will most probably will continue to use 5.56x45 on mciws. The ones in Kashmir, etc. will use mciws 7.62x39.

The whole Indian small arms procurement are very messy. Someone has to be eating good on some of these deals...

 

[skysthelimit]

The issue we keep on running into again & again is - DRDO and users not working together during development. Since DRDO has been doing that for the Navy for decades, it seems the issue is with the Army and IAF brass who have strong preference (and maybe even vested interested) for imported equipment over domestic ones.

The new MoD needs to crack the whip and enforce this - otherwise 20 years onwards we will still be in the same place. Not saying that DRDO is blameless - they f*** up 5 out of 10 times - but these 2 services need to get out of their import-whore mindset.

 

[gslv mk3]

The general opinion on the rifle was not good, poorly manufactured, liable to jam, and not very robust, was the damning conclusion of our assessment.

Your soldiers would definitely disagree.Especially the ones who came to Kargil

 

[SR-91]

Your soldiers would definitely disagree.Especially the ones who came to Kargil

Good comeback.

 

[vsdave2302]

There is a need of a guide line on what to purchase and what not. The low tech items should be put in negative list (means they can not be imported). there should be a time line to ask for the that in advance. e.g If you need a rifle, you need to ask 3 years in advance. DRDO or any agency shoul answer that withinn 3 months whether they are capable of developing that in time or not withingn 3 months. Answer is yes than they shall start development and complete within time and hand over the requisitioners for testing. OR something similar to that.

 

[Indian Patriot]

INSAS is a poor rifle. If INSAS was so good the Indian army would not have kept in service the Kalashnikovs and imported Tavors. Now IA wants foreign only vendors for a new rifle because they are fed-up with DRDO.

Problem with sarkari offices like DRDO is they are not accountable. A look at the finish of INSAS will demoralise the army. It looks like it was manufactured by some high-school dropout in a garage workshop. And the rpoblem of jamming or double-feeding has been reported many times in Indian media.

India has a big private sector. TATA nad Mahindra are willing to and already ahve created defense only verticals in their company. Larsen and Toubro made the hull for the Indian nuclear submarine not DRDO. Until and unless India invites private sector there will always be delays and foreign imports.

MCIWS means three calibers of 5.56, 6.8 and 7.62 mm. This means that factories will have to manufacture three different kinds of rounds. Which means you will have to invest more money in new factories. Two factories can manufacture more 7.62/5.56 mm rounds in a year than four factories who manufacture combination of 5.56, 6.8 and 7.62 rounds. Then you have to make three different barrels. Then you have to store all these barrels in the army inventory. And you will also need to manufacture spare barrels because barrels heat up and deform when fired too many rounds.

It is going to be a very very costly affair with limited results. Why do you need a 6.8 mm round? Is the 5.56 mm round too weak?

 

[Tshering22]

Um, fair enough? Just because an updated version of the INSAS is out there doesn't mean the IA has to adopt it (although they have adopted the latest version of the INSAS over the years). The article doesn't say exactly what INSAS version they are referring to, perhaps it is the Excalibur. Why would the IA be interested in upgraded INSAS now they are looking to replace it?

What the IA is now waiting for is the MCIWS that is all, non-story really.

It is customary that the designing country's military adopts a new weapons platform and upgrades it in phases.

India is the only country where armed forces want a STAR TREK level of technology and shoestring price while wanting the the product to be delivered earlier than time, AND they will not even support the effort by following up with defence agencies.

What idiocy is this?

This stupid attitude of all the three armed forces is what costs us R&D and forces us to import.

There should be a rule that the military should first induct in small quantities to test the weapon's daily performance while using advanced foreign equipment as back ups. Once the mistakes are ironed out and the platform matures with upgrades, induct it in mass numbers.

Unless and until it is forced on the tri-services this disease of importing at the drop of a hat will continue for another 100 years.

 

[Indian Patriot]

Military operations are not a cricket match. If military men are made guinea pigs to test weapons then will you take responsibility for the casualties suffered? Till mistakes are ironed out the Indian army men must keep getting killed so that DRDO is able to come out at last with something successful.

Imports take place because foreign maal is indeed better than Indian. DRDO knows that if they fail they don't have anything to fear. Their jobs will remain and they will keep getting funds.

Boeing, Lockheed Martin are so successful because they survive on business. They have to sell to make money. If they cannot sale they will be finished. This gives motivation to work harder. DRDO could not come up with a 155 mm artillery gun for decades. TATA has teamed up with denel to build a 155 mm arty gun with 52 km range. But TATA gun is put on hold because now DRDO is saying they will reverse engineer the bofors. What were they waiting for so many years?

 

[Echo_419]

So India plans to go full MICWIS? Even Americans are not doing this due to cost, If it's anything like the other programs around the world, it's probably special forces, then maybe a few NCOs get it.

The mass majority of the infantry probably will still use a standard rifle.

Though I could be wrong about Indian plans.

I think you misunderstood me MICWIS is a new AR family we are developing which will replace the INSAS used bythe Army