India-Japan US-2i amphibian search & rescue aircraft deal back on track

[ashok321]

http://www.financialexpress.com/eco...ch-rescue-aircraft-deal-back-on-track/378920/

After a brief period of turbulence, the $1.65-billion India-Japan US-2i amphibian search and rescue aircraft deal appears to be back on track. The Indian Navy and Indian Coast Guard are seeking 12-18 of these platforms to expand their reach and capability.

Sources told FE that ahead of the India-Japan annual summit scheduled for November, the proposal for the US-2i would be put up before the Defence Acquisition Council (DAC) for approval or Acceptance of Necessity.

The DAC meet is scheduled for October. Once the DAC approvals come through, the next level of discussions will then take place. Since 2011, discussions have been ongoing for this aircraft, but there has not been much of an action on the deal so far.

Both New Delhi and Tokyo have been discussing and attempting to iron out all issues related to the purchase of ShinMaywa Industries’ US-2i amphibious aircraft.

A diplomatic source said, “Recognising the advantage of selling to India, the Japanese government has offered to negotiate much lower price for these machines.”

The Japanese have offered to not only ‘Make in India’ for the world, but parts for the aircraft will be manufactured in India, setting up MRO and re-exports.

Also, due to the slow pace, ShinMaywa Industries have downsized their office here in New Delhi.

The Indian government has been keen on acquiring the ShinMaywa US-2i amphibious aircraft from Japan as part of their expanding bilateral strategic partnership, with both nations wary of China’s assertive behaviour in the Asia-Pacific region.

However, there is no concept of foreign military sales in Japan, hence, the DAC has to give an approval before it moves forward.

It was during Prime Minister Modi’s visit to the country for talks with his Japanese counterpart Shinzo Abe that the two directed the joint working group to “accelerate progress in the discussions and preparations for a road map for the development of the Indian aircraft industry through the US-2i aircraft cooperation”.

Though the plane is mainly designed for air-sea search and rescue operations, it can also rapidly transport 30 combat-ready soldiers to ‘hot zones’ in an emergency.

“The aircraft will give a huge boost to our operational logistics in areas like the far-flung but strategically critical Andaman and Nicobar Islands. It can also land spares and equipment in close proximity to warships on the high seas,” said an official.

 

[Tshering22]

http://www.financialexpress.com/eco...ch-rescue-aircraft-deal-back-on-track/378920/

After a brief period of turbulence, the $1.65-billion India-Japan US-2i amphibian search and rescue aircraft deal appears to be back on track. The Indian Navy and Indian Coast Guard are seeking 12-18 of these platforms to expand their reach and capability.

Sources told FE that ahead of the India-Japan annual summit scheduled for November, the proposal for the US-2i would be put up before the Defence Acquisition Council (DAC) for approval or Acceptance of Necessity.

The DAC meet is scheduled for October. Once the DAC approvals come through, the next level of discussions will then take place. Since 2011, discussions have been ongoing for this aircraft, but there has not been much of an action on the deal so far.

Both New Delhi and Tokyo have been discussing and attempting to iron out all issues related to the purchase of ShinMaywa Industries’ US-2i amphibious aircraft.

A diplomatic source said, “Recognising the advantage of selling to India, the Japanese government has offered to negotiate much lower price for these machines.”

The Japanese have offered to not only ‘Make in India’ for the world, but parts for the aircraft will be manufactured in India, setting up MRO and re-exports.

Also, due to the slow pace, ShinMaywa Industries have downsized their office here in New Delhi.

The Indian government has been keen on acquiring the ShinMaywa US-2i amphibious aircraft from Japan as part of their expanding bilateral strategic partnership, with both nations wary of China’s assertive behaviour in the Asia-Pacific region.

However, there is no concept of foreign military sales in Japan, hence, the DAC has to give an approval before it moves forward.

It was during Prime Minister Modi’s visit to the country for talks with his Japanese counterpart Shinzo Abe that the two directed the joint working group to “accelerate progress in the discussions and preparations for a road map for the development of the Indian aircraft industry through the US-2i aircraft cooperation”.

Though the plane is mainly designed for air-sea search and rescue operations, it can also rapidly transport 30 combat-ready soldiers to ‘hot zones’ in an emergency.

“The aircraft will give a huge boost to our operational logistics in areas like the far-flung but strategically critical Andaman and Nicobar Islands. It can also land spares and equipment in close proximity to warships on the high seas,” said an official.

But which countries have expressed interest in US-2?

After Japan we will be the largest operators of this aircraft. Is it Vietnam they want to sell it to? Or Australia?

 

[4GTejasBVR]

Can any point out military use of this aircraft other than rescue

 

[VivasvatManu]

But which countries have expressed interest in US-2?

After Japan we will be the largest operators of this aircraft. Is it Vietnam they want to sell it to? Or Australia?

Japan has a grand total of 1 aircraft.

 

[Tshering22]

Japan has a grand total of 1 aircraft.

They need to get out of their WW2 shell and be confident. Decades of toeing the US line has made them forget who they are.

If they want they can ramp up manufacturing to 50 in one year.

The question is, when we have their consent, could we even do a quarter of that per year considering the corruption in our DPSUs and bureaucracy?

 

[VivasvatManu]

They need to get out of their WW2 shell and be confident. Decades of toeing the US line has made them forget who they are.

If they want they can ramp up manufacturing to 50 in one year.

The question is, when we have their consent, could we even do a quarter of that per year considering the corruption in our DPSUs and bureaucracy?

India really needs to stop spending all this money on buying foreign goods. Not unless Japan funds it for 0.1% interest rate.

We need to limit our foreign purchases to 10 % of our Defence budget per year and have a target for reducing it every year.

 

[zebra7]

Can any point out military use of this aircraft other than rescue

Survellance, takeoff and landing in the waterbodies, if there is no landing strip available, disaster management, search and rescue, Anti Sub role.

 

[nang2]

Japan has a grand total of 1 aircraft.

That sounds like an easy goal to achieve.

India really needs to stop spending all this money on buying foreign goods. Not unless Japan funds it for 0.1% interest rate.

We need to limit our foreign purchases to 10 % of our Defence budget per year and have a target for reducing it every year.

Good strategy. Difficult if Indian politicians still try to match with whatever China has.

 

[Armani]

India really needs to stop spending all this money on buying foreign goods. Not unless Japan funds it for 0.1% interest rate.

We need to limit our foreign purchases to 10 % of our Defence budget per year and have a target for reducing it every year.

There is more than one way of looking at this. But before you proceed to adopt a certain view, you must understand that it's the requirement that drives procurement. You can argue that foreign purchases should be limited/discouraged - but you would be naive if you don't come to terms with the fact that India's primarily state-run defence industry is simply incapable of creating equipment that the forces need - on time and within the budget specified.

IN wants to procure US-2i amphibian now. You want to close off deals with foreign companies, but what indigenous alternative is available? None whatsoever. How much time would it take for HAL/NAL/ADA to create a design from the ground-up, build & test it? 10 years? 15 years?

So by cutting off foreign purchases especially when home-grown alternatives are not available, you're not saving the local industry, you're just deliberately holding back the forces' capabilities.

Yes, yes, I know the counter-argument. That if you don't make indigenous production the only option now, you will never have a local industry to speak of. But it must also be kept in mind that local industry need not develop at the expense of the military's operational capabilities. You can always learn production skills from licensed-building of the foreign aircraft, but if you're smart, you'll invest in a profit-driven private company that would immediately transfer these skill sets into other areas where they might be useful. Acquiring/buying off foreign design firms, plans, IPRs etc. to stay ahead of the game, make offers for designs as soon as international/local RFIs/RFPs or even ASQRs are issued, etc.

That is how you develop a local industry. Not buying state-of-the-art equipment when available and then forcing equipment that is 20 years behind the norm down the throats of the military is not how you develop an indigenous industry. Such a venture is doomed to collapse sooner or later.

 

[VivasvatManu]

There is more than one way of looking at this. But before you proceed to adopt a certain view, you must understand that it's the requirement that drives procurement. You can argue that foreign purchases should be limited/discouraged - but you would be naive if you don't come to terms with the fact that India's primarily state-run defence industry is simply incapable of creating equipment that the forces need - on time and within the budget specified.

IN wants to procure US-2i amphibian now. You want to close off deals with foreign companies, but what indigenous alternative is available? None whatsoever. How much time would it take for HAL/NAL/ADA to create a design from the ground-up, build & test it? 10 years? 15 years?

So by cutting off foreign purchases especially when home-grown alternatives are not available, you're not saving the local industry, you're just deliberately holding back the forces' capabilities.

Yes, yes, I know the counter-argument. That if you don't make indigenous production the only option now, you will never have a local industry to speak of. But it must also be kept in mind that local industry need not develop at the expense of the military's operational capabilities. You can always learn production skills from licensed-building of the foreign aircraft, but if you're smart, you'll invest in a profit-driven private company that would immediately transfer these skill sets into other areas where they might be useful. Acquiring/buying off foreign design firms, plans, IPRs etc. to stay ahead of the game, make offers for designs as soon as international/local RFIs/RFPs or even ASQRs are issued, etc.

That is how you develop a local industry. Not buying state-of-the-art equipment when available and then forcing equipment that is 20 years behind the norm down the throats of the military is not how you develop an indigenous industry. Such a venture is doomed to collapse sooner or later.

You do not seem to understand that its not only Requirement that drive procurement, its also CAPACITY.

We are draining our resources to buy foreign goods. Weakening our own economy, technological base and knowledge base while strengthening our competitors.

Its a Myopic tactic devoid of any real Strategy to truly make us strong.

Our Forces are PART of our system, not external to it. They need to be integrated better into India, not pretend to be an outside force like what the British had created. 70 years of Independence is enough time for the Indian Army to shed its british skin and attitude.

Local Industry do not need to expense of the military, but the military DEFINITELY should not expand at the cost of the Local industry. Without the local industry, what the hell is the military defending ?

Its one thing to licence technology, quite another one to be a perpetual buyer of technology goods. The Alternative to the US-2i is a freaking Indian built BOAT if India cannot build an aircraft.

 

[nang2]

That is how you develop a local industry. Not buying state-of-the-art equipment when available and then forcing equipment that is 20 years behind the norm down the throats of the military is not how you develop an indigenous industry. Such a venture is doomed to collapse sooner or later.

That is exactly how China develops her indigenous local military industry.

 

[Armani]

That is exactly how China develops her indigenous local military industry.

You had little to no choice as far as buying from the international market goes, especially after Tiananmen.

 

[nang2]

You had little to no choice as far as buying from the international market goes, especially after Tiananmen.

Some pressure is good for health. Some self-restraint is good for the spoiled.

 

[Armani]

You do not seem to understand that its not only Requirement that drive procurement, its also CAPACITY.

We are draining our resources to buy foreign goods. Weakening our own economy, technological base and knowledge base while strengthening our competitors.

Its a Myopic tactic devoid of any real Strategy to truly make us strong.

Incorrect. Atleast the deals being negotiated since the last 5 years have almost everything needed to ensure Indian industry gets the most it can out of even foreign procurement.

Indigenous alternatives are NOT AVAILABLE in a majority of cases. In such circumstances it is advisable to take advantage of the sources you have in order to meet your operational goals. Even Russia & China do this without fail.

If you wish to go by "indigenous weapons or no weapons", your projects will never take off. Thanks to the fact that we're able to procure from abroad, we atleast manage to get partly indigenous equipment into service (i.e. Arjun, Tejas, ships etc.). If we refused to buy GE F404 and decide to stick with indigenous Kaveri from the start, who knows when Tejas would be ready??

If the Chinese decided not to buy foreign engines (AL-31F) from whatever sources they had, how long would it have taken them to get WS-10 ready for J-10s and J-11s? China would still be flying J-7s today if they really followed the "indigenous or nothing" policy. That's just retarded - no sane person or country would achieve any measure of success that way.

@nang2

Local Industry do not need to expense of the military, but the military DEFINITELY should not expand at the cost of the Local industry. Without the local industry, what the hell is the military defending ?

Not at all - the MoD is doing everything in it's power to ensure that the local industry gets the maximum benefit out of the foreign procurement being made. That is what the whole local production is all about!

Investment, jobs, skill-development, production contracts to local suppliers etc. - I am willing to say that a deal like Rafale actually creates just as much economic benefit for the local industry as a "Indian" plane like Tejas did. Perhaps even more.

And when I say industry, I mean actual material benefit - purely economic or infrastructure-wise.

Ofcourse development of Tejas provided us with knowledge about the R&D cycle which no foreign vendor is likely to share, but we are talking about actual industrial benefits here.

Its one thing to licence technology, quite another one to be a perpetual buyer of technology goods. The Alternative to the US-2i is a freaking Indian built BOAT if India cannot build an aircraft.

The eventual aim of the MoD is obviously to create self-reliance. However, it is a not a one-step process. Licensed production is just a step toward that goal.

In the meantime - look at the condition & work ethic of the state-run agencies in India. They are not profit-driven enterprises. They do not have any incentive to work, meet schedules or deliver products. They will be paid their salaries & pension regardless of their performance. Is this the kind of agency you want to entrust the defence production of India to?

I wouldn't do that.

If you want to achieve self-sufficiency in defence production, I'm sorry but the current crop of government companies are not getting you anywhere. Private companies are the way forward.

That said, it's advisable to pursue procurement on a economic basis than a purely nationalistic one.

Some pressure is good for health. Some self-restraint is good for the spoiled.

Should have exercised self-restraint before buying AL-31Fs from Russia, Zubrs & Varyag from Ukraine and a plethora of French helicopters purchased in the 70s and 80s when you had the access to international arms market.

 

[nang2]

Should have exercised self-restraint before buying AL-31Fs from Russia, Zubrs & Varyag from Ukraine and a plethora of French helicopters purchased in the 70s and 80s when you had the access to international arms market.

Apparently you don't understand what "self-restraint" means. An overeating kid should practice self-restraint but it doesn't mean he has to stop eating.