India, Israeli To Develop US$2.47 Billion Worth Barak II Project

[solid snake]

If we think about it, we are so much like Israel.

Pakistan and Israel are the only two countries in the world formed to give people of a certain religion a homeland within a region.

Pakistan and Israel both face bigger enemies.

Pakistan and Israel have both been US allies. (more or less)

Pakistan and Israel both limit minorities participation in the military/politics (Israel doesn't let Muslims enter the Air Force as pilots, PAF doesn't let non-Muslims enter as pilots and many other examples)

Infact, I found an article on this issue:

Notwithstanding these differences, however, both states share a certain common historical legacy and the contours of state-building. They both suffer from internal strife and divisions. As states created with the explicit purpose of safeguarding the political rights of religious minorities, the Zionist and Pakistani struggles for independence reflect some similar political traits and approaches. Some of the problems they faced in nation-building were also similar.

In both cases, the question of nationhood was strongly influenced by religion; yet those who led the struggle were anything but religious. Neither Mohammed Ali Jinnah, the architect of Pakistan, nor David Ben-Gurion visualized the creation of theocratic entities.

[…]These are not the only similarities between Israel and Pakistan. Since their establishment, both countries have been haunted by an existential threat and have struggled for acceptance by their regional neighbor/s. It is no coincidence that the security establishment plays a pivotal rule in both countries; in one case as an effective vehicle for national unity and cohesion and in another as the ultimate arbitrator in the national power struggle. While the degree of external threat differs, both countries had genuine fears about their acceptance by the majority from which they broke away.

[…]Unlike their rivals (India and the Arab countries respectively) they pursued a realistic foreign policy devoid of idealism and rhetoric. At the time of their independence, both tried to pursue a non-aligned foreign policy that sought friendly relations with the rival blocs of the Cold War. A host of regional developments curtailed their options, however. Very soon, both were firmly entrenched in the Western camp and emerged as principal allies, and at times proxies, of Washington in the region

If we recognize Israel, we can benifit a lot. Hopefully, within the next couple of decades, there will be an Israeli embassy in Islamabad.

 

[solid snake]

Why? What makes you think Indians wont have their survival instincts like the Pakistani's have now, if their roles are reversed. Only israeli's and Pakistani's have it.

Pakistani development of ballistic missile's should be credited to north korea and china. Pakistan though has done quite well, in more case than one is because lack of political will power in india.

Nobody helped us in making our nuclear bomb. AQ. Khan stole some documents from his office in Europe (quite smart of him) and since then Pakistan has been able to develop the BOMB on its own.

At my grandmas house around the summer of 99, I came across an Indian magazine with a publication date in the early 80s. There was an article titled "AQ Khan: Scientist or nuclear terrorist?"

Our scientist stole their documents, came back to Pakistan, formed his own nuclear research company and pretty much gave them the finger. His European bosses couldn't do anything about it. Talk about badass.

I really don't know where you Indians get your facts from. Who told you that China helped Pakistan? And do you know how AQ Khan was busted for his nuclear smuggling ring?

A centrifuge from North Korea was found to be wrapped in a plastic bag from AQ Khans dry cleaning shop in Rawalpindi. AQ. Khan helped North Korea get whatever nuclear capabilites they have right now, not the other way round.

 

[Ababeel]

Pakistan need to start such JVs with China if it wants to keep it's armament array at par or near to it with the Indians. It will be helpful in keeping balance of power at equal in South Asia. Similarly Pak has started good reforms and funding of education. However it must be from down to top. Similarly a cheap education to all will be the most important point to work on.

 

[Bull]

Nobody helped us in making our nuclear bomb. AQ. Khan stole some documents from his office in Europe (quite smart of him) and since then Pakistan has been able to develop the BOMB on its own.

At my grandmas house around the summer of 99, I came across an Indian magazine with a publication date in the early 80s. There was an article titled "AQ Khan: Scientist or nuclear terrorist?"

Our scientist stole their documents, came back to Pakistan, formed his own nuclear research company and pretty much gave them the finger. His European bosses couldn't do anything about it. Talk about badass.

I really don't know where you Indians get your facts from. Who told you that China helped Pakistan? And do you know how AQ Khan was busted for his nuclear smuggling ring?

A centrifuge from North Korea was found to be wrapped in a plastic bag from AQ Khans dry cleaning shop in Rawalpindi. AQ. Khan helped North Korea get whatever nuclear capabilites they have right now, not the other way round.

Well read well before you right. He said Bm not Bomb!!!

 

[Adux]

Solid snake,

Stealing is so nice, aint it...

M-11, Nodong Missiles, read about them, look at their pictures and get back to me. Chinese and korean help in your ballistic missile is so well known, i dont need my RAW contact for me

 

[Ababeel]

Even US gets help in developing its defence products, like many of the electronics in its defence products belongs to Japan. However it is the history of the west that if another coutry tries to get something it is denied of that right and its ways blocked.
So as the Indians are getting the blue prints of their missiles (including Brahmmos and Akash as the people worked there saying) the same case with Nuclear technology and space technology but you are lucky since the countries and ideologies controlling the media are on your side. This is the fact.

 

[solid snake]

Well read well before you right. He said Bm not Bomb!!!

Those are a similar technology, infact easier to make than a nuclear bomb.

Solid snake,

Stealing is so nice, aint it...

M-11, Nodong Missiles, read about them, look at their pictures and get back to me. Chinese and korean help in your ballistic missile is so well known, i dont need my RAW contact for me

Yes, of course stealing is nice! If you had the opportunity to steal F-22 blue prints and take them back to India, wouldn't you? Would you sit there and think "ohh no stealing is wrong God will punish me for this I won't steal this design that could propel my country decades forward in it's effort for self defense'.

And there is a difference between copying another country's weapon system and buying it from them.

According to this website, Pakistan's Ghauri is a copy: http://www.softwar.net/scud.html

 

[Bull]

Those are a similar technology, infact easier to make than a nuclear bomb.

What? Easier to make a A-bomb? BM and Bomb are same technology.

 

[solid snake]

What? Easier to make a A-bomb? BM and Bomb are same technology.

No, nuclear weapon design is completely different from designing a rocket capable of carrying a nuclear warhead.

Here, check out the steps involved in nuclear weapon design: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nuclear_weapon_design

 

[blain2]

Solid snake,

Stealing is so nice, aint it...

M-11, Nodong Missiles, read about them, look at their pictures and get back to me. Chinese and korean help in your ballistic missile is so well known, i dont need my RAW contact for me

Do I really have to say this? What difference does it make how and when Pakistan got the capability? We have the capability, we have the technical knowhow to enhance and further develop it, we have the ability to train our cadres in using them and guess what, Pakistani, NK or Chinese, they will all hurt the same.

I know its hard for the Indians to accept anything positive wrt Pakistan, but Pakistan has done a whole lot with very little. Nothing changes this fact.

 

[blain2]

What? Easier to make a A-bomb? BM and Bomb are same technology.

No they are not. Totally different things requiring totally different skillsets.

 

[Adux]

Do I really have to say this? What difference does it make how and when Pakistan got the capability? We have the capability, we have the technical knowhow to enhance and further develop it, we have the ability to train our cadres in using them and guess what, Pakistani, NK or Chinese, they will all hurt the same.

I know its hard for the Indians to accept anything positive wrt Pakistan, but Pakistan has done a whole lot with very little. Nothing changes this fact.

In terms capacity and capability definitly, but what was that question to which i answered, I dont think so, in terms individual design and development, sorry i dont give credit. Pakistan stole and broke treaties with finesse, I give them that.

 

[Bull]

No, nuclear weapon design is completely different from designing a rocket capable of carrying a nuclear warhead.

Here, check out the steps involved in nuclear weapon design: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nuclear_weapon_design

You replied to Adux post about copied BM tech by saying AQ khan was smart!!!?

 

[blain2]

In terms capacity and capability definitly, but what was that question to which i answered, I dont think so, in terms individual design and development, sorry i dont give credit. Pakistan stole and broke treaties with finesse, I give them that.

Not any more than what India did when it began its nuclear program in the late 50s/early 60s. It was US funded and educated manpower that took a US sponsored project and laid the foundation of the weaponization program in India.

What Pakistan did was nothing more or less than what USSR and Israel did to acquire the nuclear capability. Every nuclear weapons program in the world has had overt and covert assistance. Pakistan like the US, USSR, UK, France, China, India is no different.

The key difference between nuclear and non-nuclear nations is that the nuclear nations have the ability to absorb and develop the nuclear technology (the nuclear technology was always acquired). Those who want it yet do not have the technical base have not been able to get this capability. So any country with this capability proves the point that a credible technical knowhow existed to be able to absorb the technology and weaponize it.

Also Pakistan never signed any treaty so breaking treaties does not apply to us. With regards to stealing, I would say this is the way to get the nuclear technology. Every single country that I have listed above is guilty of stealing.

 

[Adux]

Oh, Please rudmentary Rocket tech for the space project cannot be or isnt even advanced enough for Ballistic missile, I can get that in Popular science mag now. Its like saying they gave us a ship, and we made a nuke carrier by looking at it.
PS: India has never stolen a tech, especially in the nuclear and Ballistic missile arena, give me some good source, cuz there are some adnan gill floating around...which is worth crap.
Nuke tech stealing is...ok..lol