India Is Buying 36 Rafale Fighters from France (and Pakistan Should Worry)

[Sulemanms202]

with trump we should avoid any business with US, sorry, its just the way it is now!

 

[newb3e]

i fear Yeti than Rapphhayal

 

[Pakistani Fighter]

I dont kow why the 45 F-16AM/BM 28/17 or 13 Ex-RJAF F-16A/B ADF 9/4 are not included. I do know this 36 new and 18 upgrade will cost upward of 5 billion US$ package now...if we get it in good terms like FMS or other it will be half of the figure...it will be a good purchase plus it will keep exposing PAF crews to latest Training and development tactics in future (aka REDFLAG).

Better for Pak to get Second hand jets and upgrade all its F 16 fleet to V standard

 

[loanranger]

We have decoded rafale its Radar & Spectra & meteor Combo well before Modi RR "Rafale hotey to" in 2017-18 just like we did to Su-30MKI with french collaboration (REDFLAG 08) see the results...on 27th Feb.

We shall smoke them...plus we are going to get soon 36 F-16C/D Block 72s plus we will upgrade only 18 F-16C/D Block 52 to Viper Configuration.

We have ERIEYE ER about to enter service..PAF JF17 Thunder Block 3 with PL-15s to enter service by sep-oct-19 right on time..

Allah ka bara Karam hai..yeh decisions atleast 2-3 saal pehley ki hain jo humara aaj bacha rahi hain ...except of F-16s (New or upgrade) this is post 27th Feb

MashAllah I believe AirCheif Marshall Sohail Aman sab had a huge role in this.However I doubt the f16 upgrades you are reffering too donald trump aint giving us a single cheese burger unless you have a serious source.....

 

[TheTallGuy]

MashAllah I believe AirCheif Marshall Sohail Aman sab had a huge role in this.However I doubt the f16 upgrades you are reffering too donald trump aint giving us a single cheese burger unless you have a serious source.....

Its not about Trump its US Industrial Military Complex and its powers ..you will see it your self. Just wait a little may be Aug-Sep-19. Just about time when 1st Rafales lands in India.

 

[loanranger]

Its not about Trump its US Industrial Military Complex and its powers ..you will see it your self. Just wait a little may be Aug-Sep-19. Just about time when 1st Rafales lands in India.

I hope what you say is true.

 

[Asian.Century]

I dont kow why the 45 F-16AM/BM 28/17 or 13 Ex-RJAF F-16A/B ADF 9/4 are not included. I do know this 36 new and 18 upgrade will cost upward of 5 billion US$ package now...if we get it in good terms like FMS or other it will be half of the figure...it will be a good purchase plus it will keep exposing PAF crews to latest Training and development tactics in future (aka REDFLAG).

Both F-16 And Dassault Rafale are excellent fighter planes but fundamentally different in terms of design , combat capability and weapons package . The F-16 is a single-engine multirole plane . In terms of PAF F16, they are extremely old now.

whereas the Rafale is a twin-engine Omnirole fighter plane. In terms of weapons package, Rafale will have a major advantage due to its superior AESA radar and BVR capability.

The Rafale carry MBDA make Meteor BVR Missile which has a standoff range of 180 KM whereas the F-16 carry AIM-120 AMRAAM Missiles which has a maximum range of 60 KM.

IAF - Dassault Rafale AND LCA Tejas which India copied from France.

 

[TsAr]

Both F-16 And Dassault Rafale are excellent fighter planes but fundamentally different in terms of design , combat capability and weapons package . The F-16 is a single-engine multirole plane . In terms of PAF F16, they are extremely old now.

whereas the Rafale is a twin-engine Omnirole fighter plane. In terms of weapons package, Rafale will have a major advantage due to its superior AESA radar and BVR capability.

The Rafale carry MBDA make Meteor BVR Missile which has a standoff range of 180 KM whereas the F-16 carry AIM-120 AMRAAM Missiles which has a maximum range of 60 KM.

IAF - Dassault Rafale AND LCA Tejas which India copied from France.

AIM-120C-5 has a range of over 105 km.
Even the older A/B has range from 55-75 km.

 

[Ultima Thule]

The Rafale carry MBDA make Meteor BVR Missile which has a standoff range of 180 KM whereas the F-16 carry AIM-120 AMRAAM Missiles which has a maximum range of 60 KM.

Meteor have a range of 100 Km not 180 Km and our AMRAAM C-5 has a range of 105 km, the real advantage of Meteor is three times of NEZ (No escape zone)range of AMRAAM and other rocket powered BVR to increase its PK (probability of Kill) @AsianUnion

 

[MultaniGuy]

Emanuele Scimia
October 3, 2016

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France’s recent arms sale to India is not in itself a game changer in South Asia’s balance of power, but, coupled with the United States’ decision to cut military assistance to Pakistan (Delhi’s arch rival), it is doomed to produce some aftershocks in the region’s defense dynamics.

India secured 36 Rafale multi-role fighters from France’s aircraft manufacturer Dassault Aviation; an $8.8 billion deal was signed by French Defense Minister Jean-Yves Le Drian and his Indian counterpart Manohar Parrikar on September 23, after almost 18 months of quarrels over the contract terms. The first delivery is expected by September 2019 and all jet fighters will be at disposal of the Indian Air Force (IAF) within six years. It took 16 years for an Indian government to fulfil the commitment to reinforcing the national air force with new generation fighters.

The new arms sale arrangement highlights a breakthrough in the Indo-French defense relationships. Apart from Delhi-Paris joint cooperation to manufacture six Scorpene submarines, from 2000 to 2015 France provided India with military items worth $715 million, as opposed to $966 million in military goods that Pakistan bought from French defense producers. It is worth saying that between 2011 and 2015, Islamabad received only $24 million in military-related supplies from France, the Stockholm International Peace Research Institute (SIPRI) reports, signaling a shift in the French defense manufacturers’ business opportunities from Islamabad to Delhi.

A Valuable Asset Against Pakistan?:

The nuclear-capable Rafale can mount 150-km range Meteor air-to-air missiles and 300-km Scalp air-to-ground cruise missiles. Some Indian observers view Rafale’s capabilities as a combat advantage over Pakistan’s F-16 jets, at a time when tensions between Delhi and Islamabad over the disputed Himalayan territory of Kashmir have again reached boiling point as a result of the armed raid on the Indian military outpost in Uri on September 18 and the subsequent “surgical strikes’ by the Indian armed forces on terrorist launch pads across the line of control in Azad Kashmir.



Currently, India’s air force can deploy in large part outdated Russian-built Sukhoi 30-MKI fighters to challenge superior Pakistani F-16s.

Rafale fighter jets will be modified to meet specific Indian demands. As part of the deal, Dassault will provide a weapons package and reinvest 50% of the value of the contract in India, with the participation of indigenous enterprises. Still, the French aviation company is ready to produce Rafales in India in the event Delhi makes a bigger order, declaring that it is committed to Indian Prime Minister Narendra Modi’s “Make in India” project, designed to turn the country into a global manufacturing hub.

Filling the Gap:

Due to the high costs, Rafales’ acquisition has drawn a great deal of criticism in India. Modi’s government has so far rebutted the argument, underlining that it sealed a better agreement than the one the previous United Progressive Alliance (UPA) cabinet had tried to conclude.

Immediately after the announcement of the purchase, the Indian National Congress leadership blasted Modi and his Bharatiya Janata Party. The Indian major opposition force contends that 36 Rafale fighter jets do not serve IAF’s operational needs and that, during its tenure, the Congress-led ruling UPA coalition worked to buy 126 omni-role fighters (including relative technology), the minimum number for IAF’s requirements.

The IAF would need 42 fighter squadrons to counter threats from Pakistan and China, according to Congress top brass and former Defense minister AK Antony. In his estimate, Delhi’s air force has now only 32 squadrons up and running and, without new inductions, they will drop to 25 by 2022. By and large, Antony’s figures match those of many military analysts – 42 to 45 squadrons of fighters as an optimal level and 32 to 33 the current Indian fleet’s size.

Pakistan Lags Behind:

In the past months, the Pakistani government has stressed that its air force would have to retire 190 planes by 2020. That will prompt Islamabad to buy new fighters, if it wants to maintain the current level of 350 to 400 aircraft and try to catch up with India’s fresh acquisitions.

The US Senate blocked a deal for eight F-16 Block-52 fighter aircraft with Pakistan in May and refused $300 million in defense aid to Islamabad in August. Many congressmen in Capitol Hill think that Islamabad is an unreliable ally in the war against terrorist organizations operating on the Pakistani soil and in Afghanistan.

Without the US-made F-16s, and in general with reduced political and financial cover from Washington, Pakistan will have to turn either to Russia for its Sukhoi Su-35 or to China for its J-20 stealth fighter (which is still under development) and Chengdu J-10 to modernize its jets fleet with better aircraft; unless logistical and financial hurdles push the Pakistani Air Force (PAF) to veer to fighters of inferior caliber, like it already did with the procurement of used F-16s from Jordan in the past.

France is yet another option for the PAF, but it remains to be seen whether, in the presence of a relative tender or request from Islamabad, Paris wants to incur Delhi’s inevitable displeasure and thus jeopardize potential military agreements with the Indians that are already in the offing, not least possible new orders of Rafales for the IAF.

This first appeared in AsiaTimes here.

Image: Creative Commons.

http://nationalinterest.org/blog/th...-rafale-fighters-france-pakistan-should-17911

Buy from China then the J-31s then, do joint venture and then make locally made fighter planes.

Improve the JF-17 into 5th generation plane. Pakistan should make its own variant.

 

[mingle]

I dont kow why the 45 F-16AM/BM 28/17 or 13 Ex-RJAF F-16A/B ADF 9/4 are not included. I do know this 36 new and 18 upgrade will cost upward of 5 billion US$ package now...if we get it in good terms like FMS or other it will be half of the figure...it will be a good purchase plus it will keep exposing PAF crews to latest Training and development tactics in future (aka REDFLAG).

According to our turkish friends here these old vipers pass US restriction time means TAI can upgrade them to blk 60 with Aselsan AESA and ECM suits without US authorization means all old one including Jordanian will get turkish V upgrade to blk 60 which is Economical for PAF. Rest new 36 with old blk52 get blk 72 upgrade would be great addition. We should also try to get old Airframes from US and rest and upgrade them V as many as we can.
Trump administration forcing PIA to buy 45 new planes from Boeing if we tie this 45 planes for PIA along New and old vipers for PAF as packages FMS that would be great way farward.

India never has and never will face a 2 front situation, its a scenario only to scare the shit out of the americans

Day before yesterday Naxil who r supported by China and Russia as communist blow up Army vehicle and killed 15 commandos not a single Bhatks and Indian politicians utter a word against China and Russia its like nothing happened.if this happened Kashmir then u will see what happens. Theior only front is Pak not China they neither have wil nor capacity.

 

[TheTallGuy]

Meteor have a range of 100 Km not 180 Km and our AMRAAM C-5 has a range of 105 km, the real advantage of Meteor is three times of NEZ (No escape zone)range of AMRAAM and other rocket powered BVR to increase its PK (probability of Kill) @AsianUnion

Meteor is Very good missile but untested. 2ndly its been used as Add-on on IAF Rafales which has 1 way link system not the actual 2 way link as in Gripen & Typhoon. 3 x Times NEZ comes with 2 way link.

You will see that Indian Specific Modifications 13 of them does not include 2-way link.

 

[Arsalan 345]

We can upgrade f-16 but in recent situation,America will not cooperate.meteor missile is a very big problem for our fleet and we must find solutions to this problem.pakistan is working on jf-17 block 3 with pl-15. It's a good solution but we need massive upgrades on block 3.i heard pl-21 use ramjet technology.why not pl-21? We should worry about f-16s and we should upgrade them.they deserves better systems.this is a very big problem but I believe we can overcome this problem soon.we should buy something to counter it.we also need more long range Sams because rafale is very capable fighter jet.

https://www.popsci.com/chinas-new-ramjet-engine-triple-range-missiles#page-7

 

[Maxpane]

so any chance paf getting f 16?

 

[Enigma SIG]

Meteor is Very good missile but untested. 2ndly its been used as Add-on on IAF Rafales which has 1 way link system not the actual 2 way link as in Gripen & Typhoon. 3 x Times NEZ comes with 2 way link.

You will see that Indian Specific Modifications 13 of them does not include 2-way link.

AIM series is a battlefield proven system. A lot of things can go awry in a dogfight; missiles won't leave their racks; or if they do the motor won't fire.