India is a friend. Pakistan is not. (US president Bush memo)

[TheSolution]

India will always be a more favourable ally, their relationship with Pakistan was always forced due to geopolitical necessity.

Culturally India aligns more closely with US than Pakistan ever could. Now geopolitics has aligned with this reality too.

 

[Abdul Rehman Majeed]

Culturally India aligns more closely with US than Pakistan ever could.

We are closer to the caucasians than the Indians.

Jemina Smith married IK not Modi.

 

[VkdIndian]

IK a little stupid but not stupid enough to jeopardise political relations with the US entirely.

Actually IK went a little too far while giving his views against the US. It was in fact, naive of a PM to take a public stance like that and that too, quite a few times.

Probably, that was the reason of his downfall. Hopefully, he has learned his lessons and would be more statesman like in his next tenure.

Culturally India aligns more closely with US than Pakistan ever could. Now geopolitics has aligned with this reality too.

India has been always vary of the US. Till Jaswant became our EAM, we had a very thawed and cold relationship with them. India was much closer to Russia. Even now, India has stood by Russia inspite of US resistance.
There is a general perception in India that US is not a reliable ally. They use and throw nations.

Till about a decade back, Paksiatn was firmly in team US. Only after US realised double game of paksiatn in Afghanistan that US started alienating away. Not that US is a saint but still.

 

[Riz]

A five year old kid of our country knows USA is friend of india and will never be a friend of pakistan

 

[LakeHawk180]

India has been always vary of the US. Till Jaswant became our EAM, we had a very thawed and cold relationship with them. India was much closer to Russia. Even now, India has stood by Russia inspite of US resistance.
There is a general perception in India that US is not a reliable ally. They use and throw nations.

Till about a decade back, Paksiatn was firmly in team US. Only after US realised double game of paksiatn in Afghanistan that US started alienating away. Not that US is a saint but still.

I have another take on this. India Russia alliance continues to stand the test of time — but when it comes to people to people, institution to institution relations —- they are practically non-existent.

People don’t relate with the Russians and we cannot communicate with them in Russian. Not the same when it comes to US. We may be vary of them when it comes to policy, but we understand them at a more fundamental level than we ever understood Russians. We work with them very closely on almost every domain — from rural development to industrial development. Many touch points.

There is no comparison. India and the US are natural allies. So the differences keep getting smoothed over a lot faster..

 

[indushek]

Actually IK went a little too far while giving his views against the US. It was in fact, naive of a PM to take a public stance like that and that too, quite a few times.

Probably, that was the reason of his downfall. Hopefully, he has learned his lessons and would be more statesman like in his next tenure.


India has been always vary of the US. Till Jaswant became our EAM, we had a very thawed and cold relationship with them. India was much closer to Russia. Even now, India has stood by Russia inspite of US resistance.
There is a general perception in India that US is not a reliable ally. They use and throw nations.

Till about a decade back, Paksiatn was firmly in team US. Only after US realised double game of paksiatn in Afghanistan that US started alienating away. Not that US is a saint but still.

I have been thinking on this for sometime, and not sure if am right but, you know it's not just China angle that is bringing us closer to US.

I feel that when USA looks at East, despite racial and culturual differences, they only find few countries that can be reliable partners on this side. A healthy democracy, rule of law (ok there are aberrations, but these exist anywhere given powerful people and corruption in general) and aspirational values (this is something Chinese have more than us, but it's the lack of democracy that worries US vis a vis Chinese) that makes India a partner to be courted for future I feel.

At the end of the day money talks and BS walks, as we make more money we will have more voice. All the above are VAS (Value added services) for product called India, and am thinking India US relations will get stronger and stronger considering all these.

PS: We anyway ape West a lot lol, so that counts too I guess.

 

[White and Green with M/S]

Pakistan was given Major non-NATO ally (MNNA) status by none other than George W Bush in 2004.

Our relations with the US and NATO are much deeper than they have with India.

Lol you still believe that USA has deeper relationship with us than India than you lives in your fairytales dude

We are closer to the caucasians than the Indians.

Jemina Smith married IK not Modi.

Lol what small brain you have, USA has deeper relationship with India because of to confront China

 

[S.Y.A]

I am still surprised that people think that the army is a professional institute. an organization that routinely promotes the likes of ayub khan, yahya khan, bajwa et al. is anything but professional.

 

[VkdIndian]

People don’t relate with the Russians and we cannot communicate with them in Russian. Not the same when it comes to US. We may be vary of them when it comes to policy, but we understand them at a more fundamental level than we ever understood Russians.

People to people wise we should be closest to Paksiatn. But see where we stand as nations. There are many such examples in the world, where people to people vs nation to nation equations were complete opposite.

People to people is an important aspect but at national level, past history plays an important role. That past hasn’t been good with the US. We still look at them with suspicion. It is changing but that would take time.

 

[Mustang125]

Colonial sepoys like Mir Bajwa in their delusion believe otherwise.

"Russa bad, China weapon supplier, but Amreeka bahadur sada mai baap"

Yaar you live in “amreeka bahadur” bas kar Yaar bro. I get the hate on establishment/army leadership alot and most of it is justified but I can’t with the hypocrisy. Reminds me of the multani guy who was in loved some communist d*** but was living in Canada.

 

[VkdIndian]

I feel that when USA looks at East, despite racial and culturual differences, they only find few countries that can be reliable partners on this side. A healthy democracy,

US promotes democratic values only on paper. They put money before these values. Had China not given a kick on their fannies, they wouldn’t have come running to us.

They shifted the entire manufacturing to China, thinking that China will be thankful for that. When they realised that China is showing two fingers, they have woken up and now trying to find a foothold nearby to needle China. India is the only option in that plan. Otherwise, China was working perfectly for them.

 

[Sinnerman108]

GHQ is addicted to blindly slobbing on the angrez knob despite their hostile perception of us. No gheirat or sense of independence in their blood.

I can understand due to geopolitical necessity but the excessive servitude is pathetic, and initiating a unilateral regime change because the current PM is supposedly anti-Amrekan is even more pathetic.

IK a little stupid but not stupid enough to jeopardise political relations with the US entirely. We need a balanced relationship with both Amreka and China.

Exactly,
and the reason the GHQ and for that matter air and naval head quarters will continue to be
ready conduits, is because they are trained from day 1 to do that.
These Gentlemen, who wear and idolize the western system will forever remain their servants.

Change the uniform to shalwar Qameez, and make Urdu the official language, and the
majority of these cock suckers will vanish.

 

[Mustang125]

Exactly,
and the reason the GHQ and for that matter air and naval head quarters will continue to be
ready conduits, is because they are trained from day 1 to do that.
These Gentlemen, who wear and idolize the western system will forever remain their servants.

Change the uniform to shalwar Qameez, and make Urdu the official language, and the
majority of these cock suckers will vanish.

Bro the problem is the mind not the attire. Do you think people don’t steal in Makkah mukarramah? The issue is correcting the mindset. If a matric fail wears a doctors attire doesn’t mean he is qualified to operate on a patient lol

 

[Goritoes]

Money talks, Bull Sh1t walks... India has bigger market and more money so America will befriend them, nothing new...

 

[Acetic Acid]

A Look at secret Bush (Bush's national security team) Memos for President Obama.

The first note reads:

India is a friend. Pakistan is not.




View attachment 916568


Reference: https://www.nytimes.com/2023/02/14/us/politics/bush-obama-memos.html


So, they (US) knew that and had this policy for decades. It amazes me, that our establishment went far & beyond to appease US. Bajwa, going full throttle against Russia on security conference in 2022 till today, We are seeing West appeasing policy that's only hurting us and nothing else.

No matter, how much Generals appease them, there's no way collective West will favor Pakistan over india. Indian influence over US is overwhelming, Indians dominate US tech & business sectors, indian decent politicians are coming in powerful positions, the security agreements with india makes it a de-factor Asian NATO Country. I am appalled at IQ of General Bajwa, who completely disrupted our relations with Russia & China because of his Pro-west attitude.

I used to doubt the authenticity of General Bajwa's meetings with journalists where he used to degrade the Chinese food, culture and like to shower all praises on Americans. But everything now looks clear.

- Britishers told us what we are supposed to do and we sold cheap ammo. At the same time, india saving billions of dollars on cheap oil & gas. Indian citizens are greatly benefiting from cheap russian oil. Not just that, india is re-exporting Russian oil after refining it to the West and the World and earning multi billion dollar revenue.

- Annoyance of Russia is evident, A security dialog on Afghanistan happened just days ago in Moscow, all NSA's from neighboring countries were invited including India except Pakistan. Leaving space open on regional security agenda is suicidal. Lack of strategic thinking from GHQ has given this space back to the indians.

- China is obviously annoyed on GHQ's shocking policy - China has state policy to not publicly talk about differences, otherwise they would have said quite clearly but actions already speaks:

- New COAS has visited KSA, UAE, Britian etc. but not China (or did he? atleast I missed if he did)

- China shuts down consular office in Pak citing security situation.

- China would be surprised seeing Pak helping Britain & EU supplying weapons to Ukraine (POF artillery ) against China's ally Russia.

- I am also noticing unusual delay in delivery of Chinese weaponary. If milestones like Keel laying, launching dates have to be our guide then 3rd Type 54-A/P was due on first week of January. The first of the 08 submarines were also due in 2022-2023, Similarly, what about next batches of J-10Cs.

- PN AMAN-23 exercise has invited all countries but Russia was not invited.


All we are seeing is GHQ's flawed foreign policy. First of all they should NEVER venture in this area. They are not equipped to make nation's foreign policy. Disastrous results are in front of everyone. Pro-West policy has taken us to the default and we have also lost the confidence & trust of our allies. Even Amateurs could see that West will not give us any extra favor, no matter what you do. Our future had to be aligned with China & Russia, the above article shows that even at times of great co-operation, the west was only using us. They knew all the way that India is their real friend and we can never be trusted.

We don't have to be anti-west as well, but atleast We must have anticipated that west cannot offer us anything else then whatever its offering already. But heck, GHQ even toppled the elected govt on little displeasure of US (over Khan's visit to Moscow - same day Russian offense started)

One country is not willing to sell engines (license for their engines to be re-exported) ( for Turkish helis), Other country is selling you complete fighter jet squadrons and yet you destroy the trust.
The damage done will take decades to repair. China/Russia will never trust us. They will consider that our establishment can do shocking decisions for the west. Who will trust, what if a new COAS at any point in time do yet another pro-US stunts like Bajwa. How China (arch rival of United States) can now feel secure investing further in Pakistan ? If I put myself in China's position, I'd never trust Pak.

Leh our Lumber one Army after f**king whole country to make American daddies happy: