India is a friend. Pakistan is not. (US president Bush memo)

[Dalit]

I

CIA has tons of shit to blackmail these gernails with when they go to America. That’s why you don’t hear a squeak from them when US talks. Some of them are just bought off by the CIA. Our political dynasties are on the payroll of both the CIA and MI5/Mi6.

PA is infiltrated with these dogs that have even created groups within the military. Patriotic gernails get run off and others get forced into retirement.

Don’t forget the words of our Spymaster.

Without cleansing our institutions and government, Pakistan will maintain ‘self’-inflicted sabotage that even third world countries would not commit..

It is a cabal of boomer generals.

 

[datafreak]

India needs Pakistan to reach Iran? Bitch please!

But you can't deny that India needs Pakistan to reach USA

 

[Paji]

When Osama was lived in plain sight for years near PMA, Kakul and Kaptaan Sahab celebrated Afghans breaking the "shackles of slavery" at the time of America's humiliating retreat from Kabul, then how does anyone excpect the USA to consider Pakistan as a friend?

 

[Dalit]

When Osama was lived in plain sight for years near PMA, Kakul and Kaptaan Sahab celebrated Afghans breaking the "shackles of slavery" at the time of America's humiliating retreat from Kabul, then how does anyone excpect the USA to consider Pakistan as a friend?

Well it was your beloved army that was supposedly giving refuge to OBL. OBL wasn't caught fron Imran Khan's house or was he?

The generals have embaressed, bruised and destroyed Pakistan every step of the way.

 

[Jeeten Parikh]

Dont get them wrong, Xinjiang and Taiwan are Chinese internal matters.

rligious freedom & genocide cannot be hidden as internal matters.
Taiwan has its own govt, military and trading relationships. China just claims it as a province . How can it be internal matter?

 

[Paji]

Well it was your beloved army that was supposedly giving refuge to OBL.

My beloved army? The three countries I have lived the most and identify with are US, UK and India. As far as I know, OBL has never been to any of these countries.

The generals have embaressed, bruised and destroyed Pakistan every step of the way.

I agree with you. Even the so-called Jamoori leaders, who were busy destroying Pakistan even when it was supposedly a democracy, were sponsored by Fauji ameers. Bhutto was sponsored by Ayub, Mian Sahab by Zia and Kaptaan Sahab by Bajwa. It is another matter that Bhutto and Niazi Sahebs later turned against their aksari masters and Mian Sahab also turned on the army establishment.

 

[Dalit]

My beloved army? The three countries I have lived the most and identify with are US, UK and India. As far as I know, OBL has never been to any of these countries.


I agree with you. Even the so-called Jamoori leaders, who were busy destroying Pakistan even when it was supposedly a democracy, were sponsored by Fauji ameers. Bhutto was sponsored by Ayub, Mian Sahab by Zia and Kaptaan Sahab by Bajwa. It is another matter that Bhutto and Niazi Sahebs later turned against their aksari masters and Mian Sahab also turned on the army establishment.

Lately I have seen Indians cheerlead for PDM and generals. Why wouldn't you? PDM and generals are more Indians than they are Pakistanis at the moment.

 

[Ghessan]

A Look at secret Bush (Bush's national security team) Memos for President Obama.

The first note reads:

India is a friend. Pakistan is not.




View attachment 916568


Reference: https://www.nytimes.com/2023/02/14/us/politics/bush-obama-memos.html


So, they (US) knew that and had this policy for decades. It amazes me, that our establishment went far & beyond to appease US. Bajwa, going full throttle against Russia on security conference in 2022 till today, We are seeing West appeasing policy that's only hurting us and nothing else.

No matter, how much Generals appease them, there's no way collective West will favor Pakistan over india. Indian influence over US is overwhelming, Indians dominate US tech & business sectors, indian decent politicians are coming in powerful positions, the security agreements with india makes it a de-factor Asian NATO Country. I am appalled at IQ of General Bajwa, who completely disrupted our relations with Russia & China because of his Pro-west attitude.

I used to doubt the authenticity of General Bajwa's meetings with journalists where he used to degrade the Chinese food, culture and like to shower all praises on Americans. But everything now looks clear.

- Britishers told us what we are supposed to do and we sold cheap ammo. At the same time, india saving billions of dollars on cheap oil & gas. Indian citizens are greatly benefiting from cheap russian oil. Not just that, india is re-exporting Russian oil after refining it to the West and the World and earning multi billion dollar revenue.

- Annoyance of Russia is evident, A security dialog on Afghanistan happened just days ago in Moscow, all NSA's from neighboring countries were invited including India except Pakistan. Leaving space open on regional security agenda is suicidal. Lack of strategic thinking from GHQ has given this space back to the indians.

- China is obviously annoyed on GHQ's shocking policy - China has state policy to not publicly talk about differences, otherwise they would have said quite clearly but actions already speaks:

- New COAS has visited KSA, UAE, Britian etc. but not China (or did he? atleast I missed if he did)

- China shuts down consular office in Pak citing security situation.

- China would be surprised seeing Pak helping Britain & EU supplying weapons to Ukraine (POF artillery ) against China's ally Russia.

- I am also noticing unusual delay in delivery of Chinese weaponary. If milestones like Keel laying, launching dates have to be our guide then 3rd Type 54-A/P was due on first week of January. The first of the 08 submarines were also due in 2022-2023, Similarly, what about next batches of J-10Cs.

- PN AMAN-23 exercise has invited all countries but Russia was not invited.


All we are seeing is GHQ's flawed foreign policy. First of all they should NEVER venture in this area. They are not equipped to make nation's foreign policy. Disastrous results are in front of everyone. Pro-West policy has taken us to the default and we have also lost the confidence & trust of our allies. Even Amateurs could see that West will not give us any extra favor, no matter what you do. Our future had to be aligned with China & Russia, the above article shows that even at times of great co-operation, the west was only using us. They knew all the way that India is their real friend and we can never be trusted.

We don't have to be anti-west as well, but atleast We must have anticipated that west cannot offer us anything else then whatever its offering already. But heck, GHQ even toppled the elected govt on little displeasure of US (over Khan's visit to Moscow - same day Russian offense started)

One country is not willing to sell engines (license for their engines to be re-exported) ( for Turkish helis), Other country is selling you complete fighter jet squadrons and yet you destroy the trust.
The damage done will take decades to repair. China/Russia will never trust us. They will consider that our establishment can do shocking decisions for the west. Who will trust, what if a new COAS at any point in time do yet another pro-US stunts like Bajwa. How China (arch rival of United States) can now feel secure investing further in Pakistan ? If I put myself in China's position, I'd never trust Pak.

well, what took them so long to shed Pakistan and hug Indians? burden is on themselves.

let's take the back seat and enjoy the show.

 

[Sinnerman108]

While I like promoting our culture I think there is a certain benefit to the uniform they wear, and English is a global language and academically developed, so I don't see a problem with it being used at times. Most of the time Urdu is used anyway.

Our politicians rock Shalwar Qameez most of the time, even Nawaz Sharif and Maryam alongside IK do. I think military can get a pass and all our news channels use Urdu. So I don't think there is excessive angrez wannabe vibes but rather a small pocket of them. Unfortunately some of them powerful people.

It's really just about having self-respect, national pride, belief in Islam, and pursuing national interests. It can also be related to those foreign courses they take which are probably uses to create loyal moles.

The best way to build moles inside Pakistan is to push people towards a liberal ideology and make them see Pakistan as extreme. Not difficult to do with some brown men who take foreign courses if I'm being honest, hire some white hookers to flirt with them, build the ideology and you have yourself a cooperative high-level mole.

That wasnt the point,
I had hope people will see this beyond just the change of uniform.

 

[S.Y.A]

oooooohhhhh.

I remember what mushi the ball-less coward used to say, the jackass used to say that the US would have gone to india, they went to india anyways.

na khuda mila, na he wisaal e sanam.

 

[MirageBlue]

I have another take on this. India Russia alliance continues to stand the test of time — but when it comes to people to people, institution to institution relations —- they are practically non-existent.

People don’t relate with the Russians and we cannot communicate with them in Russian. Not the same when it comes to US. We may be vary of them when it comes to policy, but we understand them at a more fundamental level than we ever understood Russians. We work with them very closely on almost every domain — from rural development to industrial development. Many touch points.

There is no comparison. India and the US are natural allies. So the differences keep getting smoothed over a lot faster..

Perfectly described.

I've met Russians and Ukranians in the US at work and they have very warm feelings for India thanks to a surprisingly high exposure to Bollywood (which Russians love) and the general feeling of India being a staunch Russian ally for many decades.

But beyond that, it is very hard to be culturally aligned with the Russians who don't share common language and don't happen to have a large Indian diaspora.

That is not the case with the US, which is quite similar to India culturally speaking, in the West. Obviously there are differences but people to people contacts are very strong between the 2 nations and that defines how politicians on both sides feel about each other's nations. That is also partly why there is a big disparity between India-US trade and India-Russia trade.

But as far as political alignment goes, Indians remember what Russia has done for India on umpteen occasions. Provided a veto at the UNSC where the US couldn't be trusted, UK was a US stooge, France could (at least earlier) side with the US and China was an open enemy that would play the role of Pakistan's proxy.

 

[Windjammer]

While Bush senior put Pakistan under sanctions, his son Bush junior released the latest versions of F-16s to Pakistan along with 500 AMRAAM missiles to fight WOT. I don't recall Talibans ever fielding an Airforce.... So basically in hindsight it was like a licence to whip so called America's new found friend.

 

[CivilianSupremacy]

Pakistan is doing what it can to prevent full throttled alliance between USA and India. US-Indian alliance against China will have a negative effect on Pakistan's fortunes. The US-Indian alliance against China is not a given. The Pakistani army is doing everything to keep their options open. That means delaying CPEC, relying upon the IMF.

Pakistan can no longer prevent the total alliance between USA & India. India & US defence cooperation, the strategic pacts, security alliances everything are far beyond and above then normal relationship.

India's alliance with US is far greator then any random NATO country, the reasons are very obvious: the multi billion dollar trade, man-power, businesses, powerful indian community in US and above all strategic alignment on China. In this bi-polar world, US considers China as its number one challenger, no 1 focus, and even paints it as its main rival / and even enemy. Many people in important positions in US already say that its matter of time when both nations will go to war. India already has border disputes with China and both nations have hot border. They both have a common foe. Pakistan was only beneficial as long as US was in Afghanistan. Apart from this Pakistan has a terrible economy, it cannot even imagine to match the gigantic trade between US-india.

In my view, its absolutely futile effort to try to appease US. Whatever relations Pak has currently with US, it can go at same level at best. However, chances of deeper relationships with China & Russia are far greator for Pakistan. That's the avenue our military establishment should choose for greator strategic benefits. Again it does not mean to go anti-US, just keep normal / balanced relations but we must know who we can place our bets on and thats the Eastern Powers.

 

[Imran Khan]

india should worry then

 

[Fasbre2]

India is a friend while Pakistan is an ally.

Joker…