India, Iran discuss undersea gas pipeline bypassing Pakistan

[Nilgiri]

EEZ has no implication on laying of underwater pipelines. EEZ are intentional waters and not territorial waters.
With only difference being, the host country has rights over natural resources in its EEZ ..eg fishing or oil drilling..

PREAMBLE TO THE UNITED NATIONS CONVENTION ON THE LAW OF THE SEA

Article58

Rights and duties of other States in the exclusive economic zone

1. In the exclusive economic zone, all States, whether coastal or land-locked, enjoy, subject to the relevant provisions of this Convention, the freedoms referred to in article 87 of navigation and overflight and of the laying of submarine cables and pipelines, and other internationally lawful uses of the sea related to these freedoms, such as those associated with the operation of ships, aircraft and submarine cables and pipelines, and compatible with the other provisions of this Convention.

2. Articles 88 to 115 and other pertinent rules of international law apply to the exclusive economic zone in so far as they are not incompatible with this Part.

3. In exercising their rights and performing their duties under this Convention in the exclusive economic zone, States shall have due regard to the rights and duties of the coastal State and shall comply with the laws and regulations adopted by the coastal State in accordance with the provisions of this Convention and other rules of international law in so far as they are not incompatible with this Part.

====================

So can't Pakistan simply make a law regarding the banning of Marine pipelines in Pakistan proper and this would extend to its EEZ?

This is the dejavu I was talking about:

Assocham wants India to bypass Pakistan for gas pipeline with Iran | Page 12

@HRK input is well recommended to read and also the previous thread he referred to in that thread.

I made that map at the end of that thread back then...as to a possible route that should be investigated comparing old route to a new route that should link up with more countries to maybe make the whole thing more feasible. Re-posting here:

 

[DESERT FIGHTER]

Nope EEZ are International waters. Any country can lay a pipeline in them.

And Indo-Iran pipeline will pass thorough Pakistan's EEZ, just like how Indian fiber-net submarine cables pass through them.

Nope EEZ are International waters. Any country can lay a pipeline in them.

And Indo-Iran pipeline will pass thorough Pakistan's EEZ, just like how Indian fiber-net submarine cables pass through them.

International law says otherwise.. And that's why your pipeline has remained w pipe dream for as long as you can remember.

 

[Gen Padmanabhan]

International law says otherwise.. And that's why your pipeline has remained w pipe dream for as long as you can remember.

You are pretty wrong about,

there is no sovereignty exist of any state on EEZ. Even you dont need to ask anybody to enter EEZ.

 

[DESERT FIGHTER]

You are pretty wrong about,

there is no sovereignty exist of any state on EEZ. Even you dont need to ask anybody to enter EEZ.

Dude in a lawyer myself so don't BS the BS'er!

Apart from that @HRK has explained and highlighted the provisions of international maritime law that sum it all up!

In short to lay a pipeline on Pakistan's continental shelf aka EEZ .. India will have to get Pakistans permission ! Something which it hasn't been granted since the 90s... Effectively screwing your plans for the pipeline..

Apart from the law provisions.. You can google the news which "explain" the reality.

 

[Gen Padmanabhan]

Dude in a lawyer myself so don't BS the BS'er!

Apart from that @HRK has explained and highlighted the provisions of international maritime law that sum it all up!

In short to lay a pipeline on Pakistan's continental shelf aka EEZ .. India will have to get Pakistans permission ! Something which it hasn't been granted since the 90s... Effectively screwing your plans for the pipeline..

Apart from the law provisions.. You can google the news which "explain" the reality.

Lawyer? This is treaty which is worldwide signed and ratified.

What you think Italian case is?

The ship was clearly in Indian EEZ, but no Indian laws exist there, it was hawkish Indian Coast Guard & Idiot Italian Cap that accepted to change course to Indian port. From there all problems started.

Dude, you need to read again, what means sovereignty, what is territorial waters & what is EEZ.

If India started some drilling op with intentions to find oil & gas in Pakistan EEZ, then definitely India violate the UNCLOS.

International law says otherwise.. And that's why your pipeline has remained w pipe dream for as long as you can remember.

Ok, if you are lawyer.

Please describe the difference in EEZ & Territorial water? Will you?

 

[DESERT FIGHTER]

Lawyer? This is treaty which is worldwide signed and ratified.

What you think Italian case is?

The ship was clearly in Indian EEZ, but no Indian laws exist there, it was hawkish Indian Coast Guard & Idiot Italian Cap that accepted to change course to Indian port. From there all problems started.

Dude, you need to read again, what means sovereignty, what is territorial waters & what is EEZ.

If India started some drilling op with intentions to find oil & gas in Pakistan EEZ, then definitely India violate the UNCLOS.


Ok, if you are lawyer.

Please describe the difference in EEZ & Territorial water? Will you?

There is a difference between freedom of navigation and exploitation of continental shelf of the coast state.

India can have freedom of navigation but it cannot lay a pipeline in Pakistani EEZ.

If you want sources,provisions -- il be happy to provide you that.. But if you want to argue for the sake of it.. I'm not interested.

 

[HRK]

So can't Pakistan simply make a law regarding the banning of Marine pipelines in Pakistan proper and this would extend to its EEZ?

We already have that law in place (& submitted to concern UN body) since 1976

Continental Shelf

Article 5 sub article 3

No person, including a foreign Government, shall, except under, and in accordance with the terms of, any agreement with the Federal Government or a licence or letter of authority granted by the Federal Government, explore the Continental Shelf or exploit is resources or carry out any search or excavation or conduct any research within the Continental Shelf or drill therein or construct, maintain or operate therein for any purpose whatsoever any artificial islands, offshore terminal, installation or other structure or device.

http://www.un.org/depts/los/LEGISLATIONANDTREATIES/PDFFILES/PAK_1976_Act.pdf

 

[Nilgiri]

We already have that law in place (& submitted to concern UN body) since 1976

Continental Shelf

Article 5 sub article 3

No person, including a foreign Government, shall, except under, and in accordance with the terms of, any agreement with the Federal Government or a licence or letter of authority granted by the Federal Government, explore the Continental Shelf or exploit is resources or carry out any search or excavation or conduct any research within the Continental Shelf or drill therein or construct, maintain or operate therein for any purpose whatsoever any artificial islands, offshore terminal, installation or other structure or device.

http://www.un.org/depts/los/LEGISLATIONANDTREATIES/PDFFILES/PAK_1976_Act.pdf

Hopefully this matter is closed now (about EEZ). Each few months such a deja vu thread pops up.

 

[Osiris]

PREAMBLE TO THE UNITED NATIONS CONVENTION ON THE LAW OF THE SEA

Article58

Rights and duties of other States in the exclusive economic zone

1. In the exclusive economic zone, all States, whether coastal or land-locked, enjoy, subject to the relevant provisions of this Convention, the freedoms referred to in article 87 of navigation and overflight and of the laying of submarine cables and pipelines, and other internationally lawful uses of the sea related to these freedoms, such as those associated with the operation of ships, aircraft and submarine cables and pipelines, and compatible with the other provisions of this Convention.

2. Articles 88 to 115 and other pertinent rules of international law apply to the exclusive economic zone in so far as they are not incompatible with this Part.

3. In exercising their rights and performing their duties under this Convention in the exclusive economic zone, States shall have due regard to the rights and duties of the coastal State and shall comply with the laws and regulations adopted by the coastal State in accordance with the provisions of this Convention and other rules of international law in so far as they are not incompatible with this Part.

====================

So can't Pakistan simply make a law regarding the banning of Marine pipelines in Pakistan proper and this would extend to its EEZ?

This is the dejavu I was talking about:

Assocham wants India to bypass Pakistan for gas pipeline with Iran | Page 12

@HRK input is well recommended to read and also the previous thread he referred to in that thread.

I made that map at the end of that thread back then...as to a possible route that should be investigated comparing old route to a new route that should link up with more countries to maybe make the whole thing more feasible. Re-posting here:

DID you read the entire law , or just jumped to part, which suits your narrative?

Having studied UNCLOS in detail during my college years, I know.
Article58

Rights and duties of other States in the exclusive economic zone

1. In the exclusive economic zone, all States, whether coastal or land-locked, enjoy, subject to the relevant provisions of this Convention, the freedoms referred to in article 87 of navigation and overflight and of the laying of submarine cables and pipelines, and other internationally lawful uses of the sea related to these freedoms, such as those associated with the operation of ships, aircraft and submarine cables and pipelines, and compatible with the other provisions of this Convention.

So Pakistan can not adopt a law, which bans construction of pipeline, just like it can not adopt a law, which prevents shipping or overflights or submarine cables.

Infact many Indian submarine cables to Gujarat do indeed pass through Pakistan's EEZ.

And we already know thousands ships and flights pass through the area ever day.

International law says otherwise.. And that's why your pipeline has remained w pipe dream for as long as you can remember.

No it doesn't..read it in full.

We already have that law in place (& submitted to concern UN body) since 1976

Continental Shelf

Article 5 sub article 3

No person, including a foreign Government, shall, except under, and in accordance with the terms of, any agreement with the Federal Government or a licence or letter of authority granted by the Federal Government, explore the Continental Shelf or exploit is resources or carry out any search or excavation or conduct any research within the Continental Shelf or drill therein or construct, maintain or operate therein for any purpose whatsoever any artificial islands, offshore terminal, installation or other structure or device.

http://www.un.org/depts/los/LEGISLATIONANDTREATIES/PDFFILES/PAK_1976_Act.pdf

Well if that is true then it is not of much use.

Since submarine cable just like a pipeline is permanent structure. and they already do pass through Pakistani EEZ.

 

[haviZsultan]

The

Two pathetic inferiour countries joining hands trying to bring Pakistan down

Turkey and Pakisan must adopt joint policies and counter those enemy states in very agressive manner as never seen before now it's the time

The idea is that all muslim countries get along. This step of cutting off and isolating Pakistan is not a really welcome step from Iran. I hope they maintain a pro muslim policy as they have had recently rather than becoming a satellite state of India.

 

[Nilgiri]

Infact many Indian submarine cables to Gujarat do indeed pass through Pakistan's EEZ.

Fair point.

@HRK do you have a reponse to this:

Submarine Cable Map

submarine cables are classified as structures/devices/installations right? And they definitely were not there before Pakistan filed that in 1976.....and they do run through even the old EEZ definition.

This one specifically:

Gulf Bridge International Cable System (GBICS)/Middle East North Africa (MENA) Cable System
Email link

• RFS: February 2012
• Cable Length: n.a.
• Owners: Gulf Bridge International, MENA
• URL: http://www.gbiinc.com
• Notes: GBI owns the entire system, except for one of the fiber pairs from the branching unit near Oman to Mumbai, which is owned by MENA Cable Company. GBI owns one fiber pair on the MENA cable, which links Oman to Italy.

DID you read the entire law , or just jumped to part, which suits your narrative?

Actually I brought this up in the earlier thread exactly the way you are doing.

Assocham wants India to bypass Pakistan for gas pipeline with Iran | Page 11

But I did not have this pre-existing precedent of the submarine cable line.

The debate continues!

 

[HRK]

DID you read the entire law , or just jumped to part, which suits your narrative?

Having studied UNCLOS in detail during my college years, I know.
Article58

Rights and duties of other States in the exclusive economic zone

1. In the exclusive economic zone, all States, whether coastal or land-locked, enjoy, subject to the relevant provisions of this Convention, the freedoms referred to in article 87 of navigation and overflight and of the laying of submarine cables and pipelines, and other internationally lawful uses of the sea related to these freedoms, such as those associated with the operation of ships, aircraft and submarine cables and pipelines, and compatible with the other provisions of this Convention.

Read you own post again ....

Well if that is true then it is not of much use.

Since submarine cable just like a pipeline is permanent structure. and they already do pass through Pakistani EEZ.

plz post complete map ..... not just half baked truth .....

Submarine Cable Map 2015

Most of the time cable consortium companies try to hide the cable as much as they can, so that only those who need to know, are informed of the exact route of the cable.

How are major undersea cables laid in the ocean? - Quora

BTW I don't think you consider Indian Government this much retard that by allowing their submarine cables passing through Pakistan's EEZ & in return disclosing the exact location to Pakistan & will give a priceless opportunity to Pakistan to hack & spy on India so easily ....

secondly if the said law is not of any use then for what you people are waiting ...... remember

'kal kare so aaj kar,aaj kare so ab'​

secondly if you have not read the opening post ..... then read it .... (I hate spoon feeding)

As per the proposal being discussed, SAGE will lay the 1,400 km pipeline bypassing the exclusive economic zone (EEZ) of Pakistan. Any company wanting to buy gas from Iran can rent the pipeline.

“SAGE will not be buying gas from Iran. It will lead an international consortium for building the pipeline,” said Subhodh Kumar Jain, director of the New Delhi-based SAGE.

these people are not dumb to avoid Pakistan's EEZ .... like Indian 'fan boys' ....

at the end of post ....

There are many a slips between the cup and the lips .....

 

[Nilgiri]

plz post complete map ..... not just half baked truth .....

Unfortunately for that map:

So I am going to have to go with:

Submarine Cable Map

since they take their map info on that map from:

Global Bandwidth Research Service is the world’s most comprehensive and authoritative source of data and analysis for long-haul networks and the undersea cable market.

But who really knows where the exact cable runs? The ocean is a large deep mysterious place.

BTW I don't think you consider Indian Government this much retard that by allowing their submarine cables passing through Pakistan's EEZ & in return disclosing the exact location to Pakistan & will give a priceless opportunity to Pakistan to hack & spy on India so easily ....

And how does that hypothetical scenario change if the cable lies outside the Pakistan EEZ? Suddenly Pakistan ISI ships can't reach it?

Also what exactly are u hacking given the vast petabits of data flowing through this cable (and mostly stuff like regular internet browsing etc). The data receiving and transmission would need a permanent ship moored above with a microwave dish probably larger than sri lanka....or if you want to lay another cable to carry this information back to pakistan....that cable laying operation will be spotted quite quickly. Not to mention the small city of people you will need to employ to filter through all this data flow....and also the complexity of hacking into fiber optic cables to begin with (without destroying them and giving up the game altogether).

This is quite a poor line of reasoning. Your other earlier points are more valid

 

[khail007]

Congratulation to India, good luck but go ahead and built it at any cost.

 

[barbarosa]

india already tracing enemy for pakistan in the west border. it is a good news that iran and india by pass pakistan.