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India ill-set for war with China

nangyale

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Delhi frets over war with China
By Bhartendu Kumar Singh

While Indians have managed to live in "relative peace" with China since the debacle in 1962 that was the Sino-Indian War, they are less than confident about holding their own against the country in future conflicts.

In this context, a recent statement by General Bikram Singh, Chief of Army Staff, that India would not allow a repeat of 1962 sounds reassuring at least in consequential terms. As the defensor pacis of India's military interests, Singh would know better. However, such assurances notwithstanding, Indians still fear a war that the country would likely lose.

The "relative peace" notwithstanding, several factors could draw China and India into a conflict, either in tandem or in isolation. First, the two countries are yet to resolve their border differences. Protracted talks have been complicated with new demands by China and have belittled the political parameters decided in 2005 to move towards a final resolution. As China's political, economic and military power scale new heights, it might resort to another limited war to force a one-sided resolution upon India.

Second, while the political, diplomatic and economic engagements, supplemented with military confidence building measures, have enabled India maintain "relative peace" on China front; India is losing the race in military capacity building vis-a-vis China.

Third, both countries are undergoing a transition process towards becoming great powers. The absence of an agreed border, supplemented by the game for power and influence elsewhere, could encourage China to talk through its guns to India.

Nobody expects India to wage and win a war with China, despite their so-called nuclear parity. India's capacity to resist a Chinese attack and defend its territory is also debatable and less assuring, due to several factors.

First, India does not have a primary update on Chinese military preparedness in the Tibet Autonomous Region (TAR). Indians tend to read Chinese defense modernization developments through the Pentagon's annual Congressional report on Chinese military modernization and other Western sources. These are focused on China's preparations against Taiwan and Japan and do not serve India's interests.

Second, India does not come out with official publications like other great powers to identify the military threat from China. There is also no "strategic doctrine" against China in public and the now-discarded "cold start doctrine" was focused on Pakistan.

Other domestic publications on China's military advances miss the razor-sharp analysis to help policy makers strengthen the defense against China. Indians are also yet to come out with a single study scrutinizing India's capacity-building approach and war-fighting ability against China.

For example, India's defense posture against China is based on strengthening military presence and infrastructure in Ladakh and the northeast. What if the Chinese were to attack the Gangetic plains through collusion with an anti-Indian regime in Nepal? Such war-building scenarios are yet to be hypothesized, at least publicly.

Third, with insurgency being dubbed as the number one "threat" (against the actual one from China) in India's security calculations, India's armed forces are compelled to deploy a sizable number in Kashmir. This raises doubts on our ability to release forces and their swift deployment if needed urgently. Also, a prolonged and protracted exposure to counter-insurgency operations may compromise the armed forces' ability to wage war against an enemy force.

In designing a defense policy against China, India has yet to experiment certain initiatives. First, India is yet to start its own game of military modernization with a focus on "muscle" rather than "men". In the entire discourse on military modernization, India is the only major power that is yet to trim its flesh and reinvest the money on technology and armory. A lesson can be learnt from China, which trimmed its military from 4.9 million to 2.2 million personnel and emerged as a military superpower.

Second, shortage of defense budget should not come in way of a strong defense against China. There is plenty of scope for revenue generation and revenue saving within the armed forces that can be explored. In doing so, lessons can be learnt from the US and the UK, among others, that have adopted new policy measures to generate money.

Third, India is not the only country pitted against a strong neighbor with possibilities of war. Smaller powers across the world have invented and adopted new ways and means to resist the geopolitical temptations of stronger neighbors and at times even tease them. The sub-continental examples of Pakistan and Sri Lanka (balancing) and Nepal and Bhutan (bandwagoning) are only some representative examples.

If India could convince China for an early border resolution, it will blow away the major cause that could propel a Chinese attack.

India's search for pride, dignity and honor against an unpredictable China can come only if there is an objective confidence in dealing with China. Assurances from top military and political leadership, like General Singh's statement, do reduce the pangs of psychological humiliation about the 1962 war. However, such statements also need to be supplemented with demonstrable evidences of better military preparedness against China.


Dr Bhartendu Kumar Singh is in the Indian Defense Accounts Service. The views expressed in a personal capacity.
 
If India could convince China for an early border resolution, it will blow away the major cause that could propel a Chinese attack.

Zhou Enlai already offered to swap recognition of AP for recognition of Aksai Chin. Which was already a massive concession.

Nehru was the one who rejected this offer. He refused to negotiate.

Instead, he started the Forward Policy, and set up military outposts deep in Chinese land, in the Eastern sector where India does not even claim any land!

Why would he do that? Everyone in the world knew that at that time, China was in the middle of our worst famine in history, the Great Leap Forward. Not to mention the fact that we were open enemies with both the superpowers (USA and the Soviet Union), who had contained us on all sides.

We could not have been in a worse position than we were at that time, which is why we made so many territorial concessions in that period of history.
 
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Zhou Enlai already offered to swap recognition of AP for recognition of Aksai Chin. Which was already a massive concession.

Nehru was the one who rejected this offer. He refused to negotiate.

Instead, he started the Forward Policy, and set up military outposts deep in Chinese land, in the Eastern sector where India does not even claim any land!

Why would he do that? Everyone in the world knew that at that time, China was in the middle of our worst famine in history, the Great Leap Forward. Not to mention the fact that we were open enemies with both the superpowers (USA and the Soviet Union), who had contained us on all sides.

We could not have been in a worse position than we were at that time, which is why we made so many territorial concessions in that period of history.

Total buffoonery you shall stop. And stop fantasizing about whats not yours.

A war with India will ensure that East Tukestan and Tibet will be liberated. If the Mongols have balls, they will take back their territory as well. The only reason that 10 million Tibetans are not raing Hans are becuase we restrain the DL. Behave or China will be dismembered.
 
Total buffoonery you shall stop. And stop fantasizing about whats not yours.

A war with India will ensure that East Tukestan and Tibet will be liberated. If the Mongols have balls, they will take back their territory as well. The only reason that 10 million Tibetans are not raing Hans are becuase we restrain the DL. Behave or China will be dismembered.

LOL, Aeronaut already reset the thread to get rid of the trolling, and you started trolling again immediately. :lol:



Let's discuss with facts:

BBC News - India climbdown may help China border dispute

India has been reluctant to part with any portion of the disputed territory since the 1950s.

It rejected a swap offer made by China's former Prime Minister Zhou Enlai in 1960, asking India to recognise China's control of Aksai Chin in the west as a quid pro quo for China's recognition of the McMahon line.

After rejecting that offer, India initiated a "forward policy" to control the disputed territories in the Himalayas.


---------------------

It was a very fair offer by Zhou Enlai, which India rejected. India choose the Forward Policy instead.
 
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LOL, Aeronaut already reset the thread to get rid of the trolling, and you started trolling again immediately. :lol:



Let's discuss with facts:

BBC News - India climbdown may help China border dispute

India has been reluctant to part with any portion of the disputed territory since the 1950s.

It rejected a swap offer made by China's former Prime Minister Zhou Enlai in 1960, asking India to recognise China's control of Aksai Chin in the west as a quid pro quo for China's recognition of the McMahon line.

After rejecting that offer, India initiated a "forward policy" to control the disputed territories in the Himalayas.


---------------------

It was a very fair offer by Zhou Enlai, which India rejected. India choose the Forward Policy instead.


You can keep fantasizing because BBC wrote an article. If you dont behave Modi will throw the One China shit out of the window and de-recognize Chinese sovereignty over Tibet. Tibet will burn and so will Bejing. Behave like a responsible nation and people will respect you. Behave like a bully and we will cut you down to size. So stop trolling.
 
You can keep fantasizing because BBC wrote an article. If you dont behave Modi will throw the One China shit out of the window and de-recognize Chinese sovereignty over Tibet. Tibet will burn and so will Bejing. Behave like a responsible nation and people will respect you. Behave like a bully and we will cut you down to size. So stop trolling.

You're obviously the one who is trolling. :lol:

That BBC article was written by an Indian author, using sources from India and the West.

This is your own history. But you don't seem to know it.

And yes, Modi will almost certainly win the Indian elections, and that is a prospect that certainly seems to scare you.
 
You're obviously the one who is trolling. :lol:

That BBC article was written by an Indian author, using sources from India and the West.

This is your own history. But you don't seem to know it.

And yes, Modi will almost certainly win the Indian elections, and he will certainly throw you out.

There are many paid Chinese authors in the west who badmouth China. Its the same shit.

Lets cut to the chase. Lets see you take AP. Stop the bravado and do something. Right now I just smell pussy.
 
You can keep fantasizing because BBC wrote an article. If you dont behave Modi will throw the One China shit out of the window and de-recognize Chinese sovereignty over Tibet. Tibet will burn and so will Bejing. Behave like a responsible nation and people will respect you. Behave like a bully and we will cut you down to size. So stop trolling.

Neither Tibet nor Beijing will burn if Modi comes to power. Please stop painting Modi as some unrestrained Rambo. My guess is that if Modi comes to power, trade with China will improve significantly. And trade with other nations as well. And if he is a really sensible person and has the benefit of a good administration with him, then he might even resolve some of the border issues.

Please don't embarass all Indian posters and invite the chinese trolls, with these wild remarks.
 
There are many paid Chinese authors in the west who badmouth China. Its the same shit.

Lets cut to the chase. Lets see you take AP. Stop the bravado and do something. Right now I just smell pussy.

We already took AP easily by destroying the Indian Army in 1962.

You don't seem to know your own history. :lol:

And still today, we regularly send Chinese troops deep into Indian territory for weeks at a time, and India bows to our demands every time.

Indian troops suspend patrols at Chumar - Times Of India

NEW DELHI: Apart from dismantling a SET of strategically-located bunkers at Chumar as part of an arrangement to end the standoff at Depsang Bulge in eastern Ladakh, the Indian troops seem to have suspended patrols to the Line of Actual Control (LAC) in Chumar, at least for now. Senior officials briefed by personnel on the ground said the Army has discontinued the round-the clock patrolling it was undertaking in the area for the last few months.

Any country with guts would not let foreign troops camp on their soil for several weeks at a time without arresting or evicting those soldiers.

India chose instead to give in to all our demands. Every time.
 
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I was responding to his threats of China taking AP. A scenario of war. Dont give me your half *** judgement and speak for every Indian on the forum. Your just another guy sitting at the end of a keyboard. No different from me or the Chinese bot above.

Where did he make a threat of taking AP? I must have missed it, please quote me that part, and tell me which post. I did not speak for all Indians - but it is a fact that your stupid, empty and hollow threats are an embarassment to sensible Indian posters. When the occasional Pakistani poster espouses Zaid Hamid's views and declares that they will conquer India, his compatriots do get that embarassing feeling of having to deal with yet another nutjob from their country. Which is what I felt when I read your post.

Yes, I am another person on a keyboard, as far as this forum is concerned. But evidently, all persons on a keyboard don't produce the same output. A man of limited talent, with a pen and paper, can write his address down; but a Shakespeare with the same tools could produce literature that continues to astonish the world, and will do so "for as long as men can breathe and eyes can see". Similarly, some people behind a keyboard simply spout empty threats of "liberating" Tibet from China and letting Mongolia deal with the rest. But saner people behind a keyboard can analyse issues in a saner manner, and contribute something worthwhile. And even better ones can produce something visionary. So just because all of us are people behind keyboards, does not make all of us equal. With your nonsense, you have demonstrated where you stand on a scale of worth.
 
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No war between India and China.

India doesn't pose a threat either militarily or in intentions. No reason to attack, just the dispute is not enough, especially since most Chinese don't even know about this dispute. No one will support his war, and a victory will mean nothing in boosting the party's popularity.

Second India isn't helping the US. The main threat for China comes from America, not India. China's main goal remains to push Americans out of the South and East China seas, and in turn all of American troops. A war with India may not help our peacefully taking islands plan.

There's a lot more reasons for why a war with India is just weird and out of place. But I'll leave it at that.
 
All the recent diplomatic developments seem to suggest that a war between our two nations is not something wanted by either of our leadership. so this discussion is moot.
 
No war between India and China.

India doesn't pose a threat either militarily or in intentions. No reason to attack, just the dispute is not enough, especially since most Chinese don't even know about this dispute. No one will support his war, and a victory will mean nothing in boosting the party's popularity.

Second India isn't helping the US. The main threat for China comes from America, not India. China's main goal remains to push Americans out of the South and East China seas, and in turn all of American troops. A war with India may not help our peacefully taking islands plan.

There's a lot more reasons for why a war with India is just weird and out of place. But I'll leave it at that.

This is true.

Apparently everyone knows it except the Indians.
 
No war between India and China.

India doesn't pose a threat either militarily or in intentions. No reason to attack, just the dispute is not enough, especially since most Chinese don't even know about this dispute. No one will support his war, and a victory will mean nothing in boosting the party's popularity.

Second India isn't helping the US. The main threat for China comes from America, not India. China's main goal remains to push Americans out of the South and East China seas, and in turn all of American troops. A war with India may not help our peacefully taking islands plan.

There's a lot more reasons for why a war with India is just weird and out of place. But I'll leave it at that.

And vice versa. Most Indians neither know nor care about the disputes with China. Pakistan is a different mattter, there are plenty of people in both countries that hate each other, for historic, cultural, geopolitical or religious reasons. But nobody in India has any hatred for, or even knowledge about Chinese people. As for the disputes themselves - the cost of going to war will be far bigger than any territorial gains from it, for both sides. Even assuming a complete military victory for one side, all they will gain is some regions on the border - but the price they pay for the victory will be hundreds (if not thousands) of lives, billions of dollars, and the end of economic growth. Both countries have the necessary power to ensure that much for the other side. Under such circumstances, neither country would go to war, or even think about it.

The biggest hostilities and hatred and contempt displayed by Indians and Chinese for each other, happens on PDF.
 
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