India hints US it may reconsider stand on three defence foundational pacts

[cloud4000]

No we are NOT their ally

This is how the Americans work- if you want their treats you have to take all the strings that come with it that further the US's interests, this blueprint simply won't work with India and they will (US) need to come up with a bespoke set of solutions for India.

But India wants to be treated, and get its benefits, like an ally, but doesn't want to pay the price for it. If India doesn't want to be an ally, then why should India get US top-notch equipment? Let India have the same arrangement as Pakistan, let's make the relationship transactional.

I am not calling the incumbent government traitorous but please educate me why this government has been in a rush to complete all the contentious agreements that were stalled/opposed by the previous UPA government at the expense of / or unfavorable to India

India has been dragging its feet on various agreements with US, especially the nuclear deal. Previous UPA government was notorious for this. They were more concerned with Devyani Khobragarde then making its relationship with US work.

US just needs India as a weapon to contain China, which is not stoping its expansion is South China Sea. This is the probable vision of US. India sign these agreements or not, US will some way or the other will drag India in this conflict because as a world police it needs to counter that threat in future and needs a shield to face the bullets.

Is China not a concern for India? Why is it expanding its Navy? Is it planning single-handily to take on China in Asia? There is a joint interest between India and US -- and many other countries -- to contain China. India can join or not join, but it needs to stop playing games.

People seems to think there's a certain bonhomie between India and US, and to some this is true, but one does notice a latent anti-US sentiment that still pervades Indian thinking.

 

[dilipkumarlova69]

But India wants to be treated, and get its benefits, like an ally, but doesn't want to pay the price for it. If India doesn't want to be an ally, then why should India get US top-notch equipment? Let India have the same arrangement as Pakistan, let's make the relationship transactional.



India has been dragging its feet on various agreements with US, especially the nuclear deal. Previous UPA government was notorious for this. They were more concerned with Devyani Khobragarde then making its relationship with US work.



Is China not a concern for India? Why is it expanding its Navy? Is it planning single-handily to take on China in Asia? There is a joint interest between India and US -- and many other countries -- to contain China. India can join or not join, but it needs to stop playing games.

People seems to think there's a certain bonhomie between India and US, and to some this is true, but one does notice a latent anti-US sentiment that still pervades Indian thinking.

China is our santanic brother a natural ally

 

[Abingdonboy]

But India wants to be treated, and get its benefits, like an ally, but doesn't want to pay the price for it. If India doesn't want to be an ally, then why should India get US top-notch equipment? Let India have the same arrangement as Pakistan, let's make the relationship transactional.

International relations is about securiing ones own interests. India can, rightfully, seek to maximise its own benefits whilst also seeking to preserve its strategic autonomy, comparing relationship with Pakistan is laughable. The US is far more compelled to engage with India on India's terms, Pakistan (as well as most nations) has no ability to exert its will on the uS and thus has to roll over and accept the US's preconidtions. India is in a different catergory and will carve out its own path- other cases studies are an irrelevance.

 

[dadeechi]

NDA government is pro america pro nato this is a fact

That's the tragedy of India. We have parties supporting or working for China, Russia, West and None of them working for the interests and betterment of India.

You never know, even if party changes, some secret objectives always stay on table. Afterall US is the country which killed our scientist Bhabha to stop nuke program and rejected visa for Modi to show fake sympathy towards muslims. I don't think that India will ever follow US blindly like Pakistan.

Ban on Modi's visa has nothing to do with showing sympathy towards Muslims.

It's a standard modus operandi of the west to ban their person and then insert them in another country as the leader. History of Gandhi throws some light.

Markandey Katju stirs controversy, says Mahatma Gandhi was a British agent: :Videos

British Secret Service Agent Mahatma Gandhi!!

Indians in general are very intelligent but we are very emotional too and that is where we loose the plot.

Any time west bans a person, Indians start to think the person is being banned for being Indian nationalist.

India has been dragging its feet on various agreements with US, especially the nuclear deal. Previous UPA government was notorious for this. They were more concerned with Devyani Khobragarde then making its relationship with US work.

I have myself said that UPA was dragging their feet on these agreements. It could be either because they were Russia leaning or the deals were not favorable to India.

The question is why is BJP rushing through these deals which are favorable to the west and unfavorable to India. I am not questioning west at all. They are working for the interests of their respective countries. It is BJP which is projecting itself as some Nationalist party of India and giving these deals to the west on a platter while fooling the Indian public at large.

 

[NKVD]

That's the tragedy of India. We have parties supporting or working for China, Russia, West and None of them working for the interests and betterment of India.



Ban on Modi's visa has nothing to do with showing sympathy towards Muslims.

It's a standard modus operandi of the west to ban their person and then insert them in another country as the leader. History of Gandhi throws some light.

Markandey Katju stirs controversy, says Mahatma Gandhi was a British agent: :Videos

British Secret Service Agent Mahatma Gandhi!!

Indians in general are very intelligent but we are very emotional too and that is where we loose the plot.

Any time west bans a person, Indians start to think the person is being banned for being Indian nationalist.



I have myself said that UPA was dragging their feet on these agreements. It could be either because they were Russia leaning or the deals were not favorable to India.

The question is why is BJP rushing through these deals which are favorable to the west and unfavorable to India. I am not questioning west at all. They are working for the interests of their respective countries. It is BJP which is projecting itself as some Nationalist party of India and giving these deals to the west on a platter while fooling the Indian public at large.

What is unfavourable to India in this deal I can't understand you point

 

[dadeechi]

What is unfavourable to India in this deal I can't understand you point

There is no problem in India signing LSA, CISMOA & BECA. It's just that India would be signing up on taking upon the responsibilities of being part of NATO without getting the benefits of being part of NATO.

India would be better off applying to be part of USA as 51st state (which would surely be denied) or at least beg to be part of NATO rather than signing these agreements.

 

[NKVD]

There is no problem in India signing LSA, CISMOA & BECA. It's just that India would be signing up on taking upon the responsibilities of being part of NATO without getting the benefits of being part of NATO.

India would be better off applying to be part of USA as 51st state (which would surely be denied) or at least beg to be part of NATO rather than signing these agreements.

How these foundation agreements related with joining NATO the Pact is btw India & US Govt let it at that stage only

 

[dadeechi]

How these foundation agreements related with joining NATO the Pact is btw India & US Govt let it at that stage only

Correct. These agreements do not bestow NATO membership to India and there lies the problem.

 

[NKVD]

Correct. These agreements do not bestow NATO membership to India and there lies the problem.

What will India gain in joining NATO
When we have direct engagement with US

Better build our relationship on Indo - US- Japanese model Including ASEAN SAARC countries

 

[dadeechi]

What will India gain in joining NATO
When we have direct engagement with US

Better build our relationship on Indo - US- Japanese model Including ASEAN SAARC countries

To honor the Indo–Soviet Treaty of Peace, Friendship and Cooperation, USSR sent it's naval force in support of India during the Liberation war of Bangladesh. If there were to be a war with China tomorrow, would US send it's military to support India? If yes, based on what agreement?

 

[cloud4000]

International relations is about securiing ones own interests. India can, rightfully, seek to maximise its own benefits whilst also seeking to preserve its strategic autonomy, comparing relationship with Pakistan is laughable. The US is far more compelled to engage with India on India's terms, Pakistan (as well as most nations) has no ability to exert its will on the uS and thus has to roll over and accept the US's preconidtions. India is in a different catergory and will carve out its own path- other cases studies are an irrelevance.

Yet India protests every time US sells Pakistan weapons.

What will India gain in joining NATO
When we have direct engagement with US

Better build our relationship on Indo - US- Japanese model Including ASEAN SAARC countries

Ask Pakistan what it means to being a non-NATO ally! It doesn't mean anything. NATO doesn't want India and India doesn't want NATO.

You are right, India should pursue bilateral relationship with US and other countries.

I have myself said that UPA was dragging their feet on these agreements. It could be either because they were Russia leaning or the deals were not favorable to India.

If, for example, the nuclear deal was unfavorable to India why did UPA government agree to it in the first place? The deal was quickly passed by US Congress, but India dragged its feet. Interesting, Modi then signs a deal with Russia to build nuclear power plants in India. You can understand why US would be skeptical of India's commitment.

To honor the Indo–Soviet Treaty of Peace, Friendship and Cooperation, USSR sent it's naval force in support of India during the Liberation war of Bangladesh. If there were to be a war with China tomorrow, would US send it's military to support India? If yes, based on what agreement?

Will Russia? Remember Russia sells China military equipment that can be used to against India. Did India raise protest with Russia over such sales as it does with US over Pakistan?

 

[NKVD]

To honor the Indo–Soviet Treaty of Peace, Friendship and Cooperation, USSR sent it's naval force in support of India during the Liberation war of Bangladesh. If there were to be a war with China tomorrow, would US send it's military to support India? If yes, based on what agreement?

Cold war Era is over dude .USSR is degraded to Russia which cannot be expected to do same against China

US- Japan - India along with ASEAN countries & SAARC countries will counter balance against China

Nevertheless less Chinese themselves not interested in war but Global domination through Economics

 

[dadeechi]

If, for example, the nuclear deal was unfavorable to India why did UPA government agree to it in the first place? The deal was quickly passed by US Congress, but India dragged its feet. Interesting, Modi then signs a deal with Russia to build nuclear power plants in India. You can understand why US would be skeptical of India's commitment.

Why do you think India is able to close the nuclear deals with US, Canada, UK, Australia & Japan in a span of few months? It's due to the dilution of the nuclear liability clause. None of the of these countries would support such diluted laws in their own countries but push India on the same. Why? because Indians are children of lesser god.

Will Russia? Remember Russia sells China military equipment that can be used to against India. Did India raise protest with Russia over such sales as it does with US over Pakistan?

I do not know what is your point here. I do not carry any water for Russia. India & USSR had a pact. India-Russia do not have any such pact. I am totally confused on your question on Russian sales to China & US Sales to Pakistan. What are you trying to imply? I never made any references to these at all.

Cold war Era is over dude .USSR is degraded to Russia which cannot be expected to do same against China

US- Japan - India along with ASEAN countries & SAARC countries will counter balance against China

Nevertheless less Chinese themselves not interested in war but Global domination through Economics

I never brought Russia into the discussion. I was quoting India-USSR pact as an example how a commitment from India should have commensurate reciprocity built in. India should not enter into one sided pacts.

 

[cloud4000]

Why do you think India is able to close the nuclear deals with US, Canada, UK, Australia & Japan in a span of few months? It's due to the dilution of the nuclear liability clause. None of the of these countries would support such diluted laws in their own countries but push India on the same. Why? because Indians are children of lesser god.

No, because India is a difficult place to do business in if you are a foreign company.

 

[dadeechi]

No, because India is a difficult place to do business in if you are a foreign company.

The real reason is they do not want a repeat of Union Carbide story

Bhopal gas tragedy: How Warren Anderson got away from our grasp : North, News - India Today

Bhopal: The World's Worst Industrial Disaster, 30 Years Later - The Atlantic

Thirty Years After Bhopal's Union Carbide Disaster, Gas Leak Survivors Are Still Suffering | VICE News

Anderson dead, no tears in Bhopal - The Hindu