India has lost confidence of the world: Ratan Tata

[Foo_Fighter]

If that's the case I am completely in agreement with @Chinese-Dragon... but thats only a part of what he said.

You are missing Chinese-Dragon's point completely. What he is saying is that in the West, journalists might be able to sensationalize or embellish news stories, but they cannot flat-out accuse someone of being, for example, a murderer or a thief, if there is no evidence of that person ever being convicted of such crimes. In the West, the journalist making such a unsubstantiated accusation will be liable to a lawsuit. Libel, slander and defamation laws exist in the West to protect a person's reputation, which Chinese-Dragon was trying to make the point, does not exist in India.

 

[Foo_Fighter]

Mate if you have lost faith in democracy that i can't do jack sugar bout it. A few incidents can't make democracy black or white... democracy like every other government set up plays in grey. The situation is better compared to 40's-50's, it does does take upswing and dowsing but the further we will go our democracy will surely mature (that's why I mentioned in my previous post that improvement is there, but its painstakingly slow). And yes this is a democracy, every country defines their own democracy with inefficiencies, basic structure and some good points.

How?

After the blatant purchase of MPs for auction during the trust vote, HOW on earth do you have faith in something that has openly been bought for?

When the people's opinions are outweighed by illegal black money buy outs, there is no reason and no excuse whatsoever to have trust in a system that has failed the country and made a mockery out of the aspirations, expectations, security and dignity of a billion people.

Face it: majority of those who vote are either 'minorities' (those who have the blessings of secoolar messiahs, other genuine minorities don't count) or marginalized sections who have to worry about their next meal which can easily be bought over.

This is not how a democracy is supposed to function. I suggest you travel around the world especially in the west and see how democracy has been implemented in those countries. The true democratic structure can only exists when the population of a country and majority of it, know their rights, duties and know what to do incase either of that is violated.

Here there are people who get converted for votes by showing a wooden religious mark floating in a bucket while a stone statue drowns and you are talking about having faith in a complex, mature and rational structure like democracy which was never implemented in India right from before the time we became proud Indians.

Tell me, if a voter cannot know the basic concepts of a democratic system and can easily be bought over with some material benefit passed onto him, where a voter cannot see the bigger picture that is impacting the country and he himself is in now way contributing to the well-being or the betterment of the country's economy.... how and why should we believe in democracy when such people decide the fate of the country while the general working class and the middle class population is the reason which has upheld the economic life of this country?


If you research democracy thoroughly you will understand that democracy was never implemented in India except for the time when Sardar Patel asked for each states to join India. Other than the unification of the country, there was nowhere where people were given a chance to directly vote their PMs.

All the PMs were elected through the winning parties and always were propped up due to internal decision of the party in favour and in majority.

This is not democracy.

Even if it is a form of democracy, then it doesn't suit India who has still 40 crore people who cannot differentiate between a corrupt regime drowning the economy and offering them chikan and daaru for voting them, and what they are actually supposed to do.

 

[Tshering22]

Mate if you have lost faith in democracy that i can't do jack sugar bout it. A few incidents can't make democracy black or white... democracy like every other government set up plays in grey.

But it does not:

1- compromise national territorial integrity

2- leaves its citizens to terrorist attacks

3- intentionally drown a booming economy into regression with blatant and indiscriminate thieving of limitless money out in the open.

4- does not create a dangerous rift within the country.

5- does not compromise on the modernization and defence and civil related strategic infrastructure in the country.


And all this has been done in the last 10 years.

I trust a democracy:--- not what is there in India. That's not democracy. It is dynasty feudalism coupled with populist egoism and a decrypt mob rule.

The situation is better compared to 40's-50's, it does does take upswing and dowsing but the further we will go our democracy will surely mature (that's why I mentioned in my previous post that improvement is there, but its painstakingly slow).

Bro, how will it mature when significant majority of voters come from population that cannot even arrange for their next meal and are asked to vote by giving freebies?

How will it mature when politicians OPENLY give away otherwise expensive material things like TVs, electronics, laptops etc and make a mockery out of democracy AND people do NOTHING ABOUT IT?

It remains to be seen whether you are trying to explain to me or convince yourself of a system that resembles NOTHING like a democracy.

And yes this is a democracy, every country defines their own democracywith inefficiencies, basic structure and some good points.

So you condone and support dynastic populist (bhikhari-promotion) mob rule in the name of democracy?

RATHER than creating a system where jobs are churned out and economy booms in a country with 76% population under 25 years of age, these traitors want to make the entire country in a vote-for-assistance kind of shythole.

And you're approving it?

 

[Jade]

Neither is there a correlation between democracy and capitalism. But there is a strong correlation that all, with the few exceptions, highly developed countries went through a period of dictatorship or authoritarism.

Since China has become highly capitalistic and is authoritarian, how does that fit into your statement?

There is. Capitalism is where capital assets are privately owned and market determine the prices. There is a great book by Milton Friedman called 'Capitalism and Freedom' where he beautifully explains how Capitalism and freedom (both economic and political) are correlated. One of the greatest book of the century.

As regarding China. It is authoritarian regime with capitalist characteristics meaning capital assets are owned by the government, but markets determine the prices. The large non performing assets, the high level of credit and lack of large private sector companies, but with healthy economic growth are result of its policies that China is following since 1980s. It will be interesting for both economists and commoners to see how China moves in future with this new economic experiment

 

[Foo_Fighter]

Yeah those are the resentments same as mine. Lets vote someone other then if congress is not performing. It's the education that will help improve our democracy, till then congress, BJP (bit better than congress in my opinion) and other same kind of parties will govern our country. It might take decades and centuries... but change will happen for sure and for betterment since our democracy is based on a strong constitution,

But it does not:

1- compromise national territorial integrity

2- leaves its citizens to terrorist attacks

3- intentionally drown a booming economy into regression with blatant and indiscriminate thieving of limitless money out in the open.

4- does not create a dangerous rift within the country.

5- does not compromise on the modernization and defence and civil related strategic infrastructure in the country.


And all this has been done in the last 10 years.

I trust a democracy:--- not what is there in India. That's not democracy. It is dynasty feudalism coupled with populist egoism and a decrypt mob rule.

 

[Jade]

But it does not:

1- compromise national territorial integrity

2- leaves its citizens to terrorist attacks

3- intentionally drown a booming economy into regression with blatant and indiscriminate thieving of limitless money out in the open.

4- does not create a dangerous rift within the country.

5- does not compromise on the modernization and defence and civil related strategic infrastructure in the country.


And all this has been done in the last 10 years.

I trust a democracy:--- not what is there in India. That's not democracy. It is dynasty feudalism coupled with populist egoism and a decrypt mob rule.



Bro, how will it mature when significant majority of voters come from population that cannot even arrange for their next meal and are asked to vote by giving freebies?

How will it mature when politicians OPENLY give away otherwise expensive material things like TVs, electronics, laptops etc and make a mockery out of democracy AND people do NOTHING ABOUT IT?

It remains to be seen whether you are trying to explain to me or convince yourself of a system that resembles NOTHING like a democracy.




So you condone and support dynastic populist (bhikhari-promotion) mob rule in the name of democracy?

RATHER than creating a system where jobs are churned out and economy booms in a country with 76% population under 25 years of age, these traitors want to make the entire country in a vote-for-assistance kind of shythole.

And you're approving it?

Yes you are right, but I would blame these things on our incompetent government than on democracy.

 

[Götterdämmerung]

There is. Capitalism is where capital assets are privately owned and market determine the prices. There is a great book by Milton Friedman called 'Capitalism and Freedom' where he beautifully explains how Capitalism and freedom (both economic and political) are correlated. One of the greatest book of the century.

As regarding China. It is authoritarian regime with capitalist characteristics meaning capital assets are owned by the government, but markets determine the prices. The large non performing assets, the high level of credit and lack of large private sector companies, but with healthy economic growth are result of its policies that China is following since 1980s. It will be interesting for both economists and commoners to see how China moves in future with this new economic experiment

Which means that contemporary China has freedom since it's economic system is capitalistic, while India in the license raj era lacked freedom.

Hmmm ... that still does not explain the historical development of most large developed economies that were at their industrialisation stage either authoritarian or dictatorial. You first have to solve that question. Any other explaination, such as Friedman's, are ideologically driven.

 

[Jade]

Which means that contemporary China has freedom since it's economic system is capitalistic, while India in the license raj era lacked freedom.

Hmmm ... that still does not explain the historical development of most large developed economies that were at their industrialisation stage either authoritarian or dictatorial. You first have to solve that question. Any other explaination, such as Friedman's, are ideologically driven.

When did I say Chinese economy was capitalistic, and who told you that India is in licence raj.

As regarding democracy, democracy was a relatively new form of governance, so saying that developed economies that were at their industrialisation stage either authoritarian or dictatorial doesn't hold good.

As on Friedman, most things in the world are ideologically driven so are people's beliefs and economic systems.

 

[Götterdämmerung]

When did I say Chinese economy was capitalistic, and who told you that India is in licence raj.

As regarding democracy, democracy was a relatively new form of governance, so saying that developed economies that were at their industrialisation stage either authoritarian or dictatorial doesn't hold good.

As on Friedman, most things in the world are ideologically driven so are people's beliefs and economic systems.

Did you see the tense I used?

The Chinese economy right now is more capitalistic than most EU countries and India had a licence raj till the early 1990s.

Name me one major top 20 by GDP developed economy with a pop larger than 50 million that was democratic during their stage of industrialisation! We don't even have to go back so far, even the ones in the last 50 years that managed to become developed started their industrialisation non-democratically.

As a academic, one has to look at the subject at hand objectively, otherwise it's just a piece of opinion.

 

[armchairPrivate]

White cats, black cats. Whichever catch mice are good cats.

It is nonsensical to debate if democracy is better than dictatorship, or capitalist better than socialist.

When the people are hungry, sick, unemployed with low morale, democracy means jack.

The sad thing is when India inherited this political system that is democracy from the British, the Indians treated it as their holy grail to happiness and prosperity. But without the ability to nurture this political system, it is not going to thrive and to bear fruit?

It is no different from buying a Rolls-Royce. Sure it is all shiny and comfy in the beginning. Without well trained mechanics, spare parts, this shiny Rolls-Royce will turn into a pile of rusty bucket in no time without proper maintenance.

ONE SIZE DOESN'T FIT ALL.

 

[wolfschanzze]

He is one man.

Narendra Modi 2014

"Ok Hindu brothers and sisters, we must work like we have never worked before, study like there is no tomorrow and haul ***!"

Indians 2014

"the cricket is on..."
"This bollywood movie i gotta see..."
"The government subsidised rice didnt come, where is it?..."
"I wont let my wife and daughter work, its too dangerous..."
"you know what we need? we need more weapons from Europe! that will solve our problems!..."
"its too hot today, Im gonna call in sick..."
"im gonna spend the day trolling the ****** in PDF, nothing to do anyways..."

Well brother, i already made sure my family and some of my extended family change party to vote for BJP! (note my family is a die hard congress party i'm having a tough time, reasoning with all my uncles, aunts etc.)I got 70+ votes for BJP from my family.

 

[walle]

He is one man.

Narendra Modi 2014

"Ok Hindu brothers and sisters, we must work like we have never worked before, study like there is no tomorrow and haul ***!"

Indians 2014

"the cricket is on..."
"This bollywood movie i gotta see..."
"The government subsidised rice didnt come, where is it?..."
"I wont let my wife and daughter work, its too dangerous..."
"you know what we need? we need more weapons from Europe! that will solve our problems!..."
"its too hot today, Im gonna call in sick..."
"im gonna spend the day trolling the ****** in PDF, nothing to do anyways..."

All goes well until the power blackout in the afternoon.

 

[EXPERIMENT]

This is exactly whats happening and its true.

Everything else maybe true in his post except the word "Hindu" that should have been "Indians"

Only Congress uses words like "Hindu" "Muslim" "Christian" "Sikh"

 

[EXPERIMENT]

It's not about democracy or not.

Even in the most advanced democracies they have laws on libel. You can't publicly make a libelous claim about someone unless it is true.

See the NDTV debate posted here with the British MP Gartiner (the one who invited Modi). When he pointed out that Modi was cleared by the supreme court, the NDTV anchor started lecturing him about democracy!

It's nothing to do with democracy, it's to do with libel.

NDTV is a paid congress mouthpiece unfortunately they have huge viewer-ship

 

[BigDaddyWatch]

The problem with Indians is that they are always waiting for the next wave of the magical wand to resolve all their problems. In this case the magical wand is called Modi. I remenber when Manmohan Singh was first elected back then Indians talked about how he was the architect of the economic reforms of the 1990's. And that he had a PHD in economics and that how he was one of the few clean politicians in India. When he got elected for the second time with a large mandate i remenber that Fareed Zakaria on CNN GPS gushed how this is India's "coming out party". So what went wrong ? It also reminds me of all those Americans who thought that Obama was going to solve all the countries problems once elected. That obviously didn't happen. Its also interesting to me that ALL the blame goes to the current government but that no one is blaming the clueless central bank (RBI) for the current mess.